JF-XX(Strike Fighter)

[volatile]

lol..mirage engines are turbojet engines which was an obsolete technology even before you were born!

when it come to customized used aircrafts the three options are
1. china
2. french mirage2000(unlikley)
3. typhoons tranch 1 with customized avionics/radar from italy

4.f16s..with turkey suit..unlikley

What a genuis reply ,All option share doesnt have practical application e.g China most trusted ally also relies on Russia . French Mirages are almost of the same era and IAF has more Mirage 2000 better relationship with France and UAE than us .
Typhoon you really are a dream boy ,keep dreaming ,Now if you share some practical options we are all ears .

 

[ziaulislam]

What a genuis reply ,All option share doesnt have practical application e.g China most trusted ally also relies on Russia . French Mirages are almost of the same era and IAF has more Mirage 2000 better relationship with France and UAE than us .
Typhoon you really are a dream boy ,keep dreaming ,Now if you share some practical options we are all ears .

I never said new..i said old used planes..i also said unlikely that mirages will be offered..ofnote same was true in 1990s yet we did got them?.

for next 20 years china has multiple options, mirage 2000 are good till 2040 (qatar France uae and india), f16 are good till 2050 and so are typhoons..tranch 1 are available for noone to buy and can easily be upgraded by italy as we have seen in the past with mirages..

 

[krash]

For All of your arguments the Mirages are still fly worthy so using the same engine OEM standards .

Barely and because we have no other choice. They have been falling out of the skies pretty regularly. The PAF is desperately trying to replace them with the JF-17. Had we had the funds they would've been gone a very long time ago. The after market support and maintenance situation is bad enough that we have been cannibalising used Mirages from all over the world just to keep our fleet still flying until the new JF-17s arrive. Why? Because the production of its parts stopped decades ago. These used airframes will also run out soon, not that they are an ideal source of parts by any means. What will we do then? At that moment some one will come around and suggest that we reverse engineer the engine and start producing it ourselves.....

Let's not forget that the engines themselves, just like the airframes, are now way beyond their expected life. They are barely flight worthy and no one, including the PAF, would ever want them still flying. Add to that the fact that the engines are also obsolete for today's age. So even if you can get a brand new one, it would still be a mistake.

In short, what you are proposing is that we invest at least millions of dollars to build a brand new aircraft around engines which are beyond the end of their intended life, engines which are sub par by today's standard to begin with, engines which don't have their parts available for re-servicing, engines which have no OEM support whatsoever anymore.......at a time when we are already in the process of manufacturing our brand new jet to replace these Mirages. A jet which comes with engines that are brand new, not obsolete, have their parts available readily and will have after market OEM support for decades to come. Makes no sense.

Btw, what exactly will we gain by going with this proposed plan of yours? Especially in light of the fact that we are producing the JF-17.

For Performance if you note i mentioned to design new airframe .Last Engines are not ready available RD-93 is re exported thru China connection not from Russia directly .

1) The engine is readily available.

2) Pakistan started buying directly from Russia a while ago. Even if we hadn't it was still readily available given the fact that we had no problem standing multiple squadrons with engines re-exported through China. The engine that is not available at all is the Snecma Atar.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2015/02/16/russia-pakistan-deal-may-lead-to-more-sales/

 

[Sine Nomine]

@denel check that out.

 

[Pakistani captain]

The General Dynamics F-16XL is a derivative of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, with a cranked-arrow delta wing.
The F-16XL started out as the F-16 SCAMP (Supersonic Cruise And Maneuver Prototype)
The original goal of the program was to be a quick project to demonstrate the applicability of supersonic transport technologies to military aircraft.[1] The big wing generated a lot of lift, and typical aerodynamic limitations of delta wings were overcome by the F-16's relaxed static stability. The F-16's electronic flight control system was tweaked to allow control at high angles of attack. The wing was also a big fuel tank which greatly increased range. The study went on for two years. The goal of the cranked arrow was to have a high sweep inboard panel for low drag at supersonic speeds, and a low sweep outboard panel to provide better handling and maneuverability at subsonic speeds.
The main wing incorporated forebody strakes to enhance vortex generation for high angle of attack maneuverability, negative stability for improved subsonic lift and reduced supersonic drag. It was built around a 40-inch fuselage stretch. Both the large wing and fuselage stretch yielded a dramatic increase in range at all speeds
The wing and rear horizontal control surfaces were replaced with a cranked-arrow delta wing 120% larger than the original wing. Extensive use of carbon fiber composites allowed the savings of 600 lb (270 kg) of weight but the F-16XL was still 2,800 lb (1,300 kg) heavier than the original F-16A.

Less noticeable is that the fuselage was lengthened by 56 in (1.4 m) by the addition of two sections at the joints of the main fuselage sub-assemblies. With the new wing design, the tail section had to be canted up 3°, and the ventral fins removed, to prevent them from striking the pavement during takeoff and landing. However, as the F-16XL exhibits greater stability than the native F-16, these changes were not detrimental to the handling of the aircraft.

These changes resulted in a 25% improvement in maximum lift-to-drag ratio in supersonic flight and 11% in subsonic flight, and a plane that reportedly handled much more smoothly at high speeds and low altitudes. The enlargements increased fuel capacity by 82%. The F-16XL could carry twice the ordnance of the F-16 and deliver it 40% farther. The enlarged wing allowed a total of 27 hardpoints:

* 16 wing stations of capacity 750 lb
(340kg) each
* 4 semi-recessed AIM-120 AMRAAM stations under fuselage
* 2 wingtip stations
* 1 centerline station
* 2 wing "heavy/wet" stations
* 2 chin LANTIRN stations
However, the "heavy/wet" stations interfered with up to four wing stations.

:- Specifications (F-16XL number 2)
General characteristics

Crew: One (XL #1) or Two (XL #2)
Length: 54 ft 2 in (16.51 m)
Wingspan: 34 ft 3 in (10.44 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (5.36 m)
Wing area: 646 ft² (60.0 m²)
Empty weight: 22,000 lb (9,980 kg)
Loaded weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F110-GE-100 turbofan
Dry thrust: 17,100 lbf (76.3 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 28,900 lbf (125 kN)
:- Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.05 (1,400 mph, 698 m/s)
Cruise speed: 600 mph (268 m/s)
Range: 2,480 nmi (2,850 mi, 4,590 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 62,000 ft/min (320 m/s)

:- Armament

Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.79 in) M61 Vulcan (Gatling) gun
Hardpoints: 17 pylons with a capacity of up to 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) of payload (Note: stations 2-5 and 13-16 were split into groups, similar to the F-15E)
For more information please visit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The General Dynamics F-16XL is a derivative of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, with a cranked-arrow delta wing.
The F-16XL started out as the F-16 SCAMP (Supersonic Cruise And Maneuver Prototype)
The original goal of the program was to be a quick project to demonstrate the applicability of supersonic transport technologies to military aircraft.[1] The big wing generated a lot of lift, and typical aerodynamic limitations of delta wings were overcome by the F-16's relaxed static stability. The F-16's electronic flight control system was tweaked to allow control at high angles of attack. The wing was also a big fuel tank which greatly increased range. The study went on for two years. The goal of the cranked arrow was to have a high sweep inboard panel for low drag at supersonic speeds, and a low sweep outboard panel to provide better handling and maneuverability at subsonic speeds.
The main wing incorporated forebody strakes to enhance vortex generation for high angle of attack maneuverability, negative stability for improved subsonic lift and reduced supersonic drag. It was built around a 40-inch fuselage stretch. Both the large wing and fuselage stretch yielded a dramatic increase in range at all speeds
The wing and rear horizontal control surfaces were replaced with a cranked-arrow delta wing 120% larger than the original wing. Extensive use of carbon fiber composites allowed the savings of 600 lb (270 kg) of weight but the F-16XL was still 2,800 lb (1,300 kg) heavier than the original F-16A.

Less noticeable is that the fuselage was lengthened by 56 in (1.4 m) by the addition of two sections at the joints of the main fuselage sub-assemblies. With the new wing design, the tail section had to be canted up 3°, and the ventral fins removed, to prevent them from striking the pavement during takeoff and landing. However, as the F-16XL exhibits greater stability than the native F-16, these changes were not detrimental to the handling of the aircraft.

These changes resulted in a 25% improvement in maximum lift-to-drag ratio in supersonic flight and 11% in subsonic flight, and a plane that reportedly handled much more smoothly at high speeds and low altitudes. The enlargements increased fuel capacity by 82%. The F-16XL could carry twice the ordnance of the F-16 and deliver it 40% farther. The enlarged wing allowed a total of 27 hardpoints:

* 16 wing stations of capacity 750 lb
(340kg) each
* 4 semi-recessed AIM-120 AMRAAM stations under fuselage
* 2 wingtip stations
* 1 centerline station
* 2 wing "heavy/wet" stations
* 2 chin LANTIRN stations
However, the "heavy/wet" stations interfered with up to four wing stations.

:- Specifications (F-16XL number 2)
General characteristics

Crew: One (XL #1) or Two (XL #2)
Length: 54 ft 2 in (16.51 m)
Wingspan: 34 ft 3 in (10.44 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (5.36 m)
Wing area: 646 ft² (60.0 m²)
Empty weight: 22,000 lb (9,980 kg)
Loaded weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F110-GE-100 turbofan
Dry thrust: 17,100 lbf (76.3 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 28,900 lbf (125 kN)
:- Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.05 (1,400 mph, 698 m/s)
Cruise speed: 600 mph (268 m/s)
Range: 2,480 nmi (2,850 mi, 4,590 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 62,000 ft/min (320 m/s)

:- Armament

Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.79 in) M61 Vulcan (Gatling) gun
Hardpoints: 17 pylons with a capacity of up to 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) of payload (Note: stations 2-5 and 13-16 were split into groups, similar to the F-15E)
For more information please visit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

there is no need for f16xl because
US has agreed to provide 50 F-35 to PAF for helping them with Afg peace deal.

 

[Mrc]

J 31 is nearly ready .

 

[Basel]

The General Dynamics F-16XL is a derivative of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, with a cranked-arrow delta wing.
The F-16XL started out as the F-16 SCAMP (Supersonic Cruise And Maneuver Prototype)
The original goal of the program was to be a quick project to demonstrate the applicability of supersonic transport technologies to military aircraft.[1] The big wing generated a lot of lift, and typical aerodynamic limitations of delta wings were overcome by the F-16's relaxed static stability. The F-16's electronic flight control system was tweaked to allow control at high angles of attack. The wing was also a big fuel tank which greatly increased range. The study went on for two years. The goal of the cranked arrow was to have a high sweep inboard panel for low drag at supersonic speeds, and a low sweep outboard panel to provide better handling and maneuverability at subsonic speeds.
The main wing incorporated forebody strakes to enhance vortex generation for high angle of attack maneuverability, negative stability for improved subsonic lift and reduced supersonic drag. It was built around a 40-inch fuselage stretch. Both the large wing and fuselage stretch yielded a dramatic increase in range at all speeds
The wing and rear horizontal control surfaces were replaced with a cranked-arrow delta wing 120% larger than the original wing. Extensive use of carbon fiber composites allowed the savings of 600 lb (270 kg) of weight but the F-16XL was still 2,800 lb (1,300 kg) heavier than the original F-16A.

Less noticeable is that the fuselage was lengthened by 56 in (1.4 m) by the addition of two sections at the joints of the main fuselage sub-assemblies. With the new wing design, the tail section had to be canted up 3°, and the ventral fins removed, to prevent them from striking the pavement during takeoff and landing. However, as the F-16XL exhibits greater stability than the native F-16, these changes were not detrimental to the handling of the aircraft.

These changes resulted in a 25% improvement in maximum lift-to-drag ratio in supersonic flight and 11% in subsonic flight, and a plane that reportedly handled much more smoothly at high speeds and low altitudes. The enlargements increased fuel capacity by 82%. The F-16XL could carry twice the ordnance of the F-16 and deliver it 40% farther. The enlarged wing allowed a total of 27 hardpoints:

* 16 wing stations of capacity 750 lb
(340kg) each
* 4 semi-recessed AIM-120 AMRAAM stations under fuselage
* 2 wingtip stations
* 1 centerline station
* 2 wing "heavy/wet" stations
* 2 chin LANTIRN stations
However, the "heavy/wet" stations interfered with up to four wing stations.

:- Specifications (F-16XL number 2)
General characteristics

Crew: One (XL #1) or Two (XL #2)
Length: 54 ft 2 in (16.51 m)
Wingspan: 34 ft 3 in (10.44 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (5.36 m)
Wing area: 646 ft² (60.0 m²)
Empty weight: 22,000 lb (9,980 kg)
Loaded weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 48,000 lb (21,800 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F110-GE-100 turbofan
Dry thrust: 17,100 lbf (76.3 kN)
Thrust with afterburner: 28,900 lbf (125 kN)
:- Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.05 (1,400 mph, 698 m/s)
Cruise speed: 600 mph (268 m/s)
Range: 2,480 nmi (2,850 mi, 4,590 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 62,000 ft/min (320 m/s)

:- Armament

Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.79 in) M61 Vulcan (Gatling) gun
Hardpoints: 17 pylons with a capacity of up to 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) of payload (Note: stations 2-5 and 13-16 were split into groups, similar to the F-15E)
For more information please visit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

That was basically what Pakistan required, if a Silent 16 is developed on F-16XL than it could be best 4+++ Gen fighter.

 

[Maarkhoor]

US has agreed to provide 50 F-35 to PAF for helping them with Afg peace deal.

lOLS

 

[Path-Finder]

there is no need for f16xl because
US has agreed to provide 50 F-35 to PAF for helping them with Afg peace deal.

 

[Windjammer]

Never went beyond experimental design after the first flight in 1982.

 

[HttpError]

there is no need for f16xl because
US has agreed to provide 50 F-35 to PAF for helping them with Afg peace deal.

What about the F22? are they also coming in with the F-35? or they will come before?

 

[Pakistani captain]

That was basically what Pakistan required, if a Silent 16 is developed on F-16XL than it could be best 4+++ Gen fighter.

You are right. That would be best 4.5 Generation light to mediam weight fighter and bomber with deep strike capability and decent speed

 

[crankthatskunk]

there is no need for f16xl because
US has agreed to provide 50 F-35 to PAF for helping them with Afg peace deal.

Are you sure!!

 

[SABRE]

Never went beyond experimental design after the first flight in 1982.

That's the core problem. It might need to be taken back to the drawing boards to bring it back to life and up to date. LM would not spend $$$ on it unless there is widespread demand for it (which is not) or an external financier funds it. Needless to say, its cost might end up exceeding the F-16 Blk 52 C/D. LM also would not put forward something that might end up being a cost-effective alternative to F-35 (F-21 being the exception but only because it is still inferior to F-22 and F-35). But above all, we don't have political or financial support for this aircraft.