JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Stealth could have a lot of meaning. But as long as the enemy cannot detect the airplane beyond visual range and direct its defence against it, the airplane is stealth. For example, because the Japanese didn't have radars in battle of Midway, Douglas SBD Dauntless serve as a role of a stealth plane vs the imperial carrier fleet. Conversely, if all the countries in the world can come up with a simple radar that can somehow sees F-22, F-22 is no long a "stealth" airplane.

I think what you mean is converted to be more "stealthy" than before. But this kind of effort is useless unless the "stealthy" conversion make the plane becomes "invisible" to enemy radar.

The planes still apear on radar, just that the signiture is so minor that , radar analyst might consider it a bird or other non aircraft flying object , but once its launches a weapons it gives off a pretty big signiture ... stealth is only maintained untill the surface , integrity holds, curve, and ability of surface to deflect light away from incoming direction.

The ability to cool down the out going airflow , is interesting engineering achivemet but if Americans can run the heat flows thru the vents , internally in craft , and make it cold enough whe it comes out to avoid heat seeking missiles I am sure other nations can research in that area.

In theroy , if your plane has a diamon shape (surface properties) light will get reflected and radars will be deflected. As long as the xrays do not bounce on surface and come back

I am sure of 10-20 Pakistani engieers worked with a small scale prototype , they can come up with a shape that can deflect , any light / xray from a prototype surface.

After that it will challenge for Aeronutical engineers to test the prototype in wind tunnels for flyability

Stealth is not new , US had it since what 70's ? so now its pretty old techology almost absolete , probbly the russians already have it figured out - they just don't like to boast about their achivements


JF17 , can it be converted ? Yes just modify the surface of plance and hide the cannopy 100% so pilot runs the plane with no visuals or just make it UAV JF17 stealth.

Hide the weapons inside the frame of body ...

Stealth is determined by how well you deflect rays of radar , not size you can have plane size of titanic , but as log as it reflect radar beams - it will have signiture of a small bird or kite or ballon

No plane is 100% invisible -

Success rate of F22 is high only becasue , it is going up against , crows and eagles in air, their is no airforce, when it will be up against Russian fighters , 5-6 Russian planes can easily out manuver the F22 into submission as soon as they establish visuals

The momet the F22 opens fire , the ground Missiles will lock in under 1-2 second and launch a missile on to the target.

The radar absorbant chemicals that get painted on the plane are well just to further reduce its signiture - which routinely get painted on planes I think I read every time that plane flies every small section of plane is inspected to see if any paint got scrapped or came off during flight...

The samples may have already been bought off by Russians and Chinese - there were few stealth planes that went down in europe ...

 

[gambit]

The planes still apear on radar, just that the signiture is so minor that , radar analyst might consider it a bird or other non aircraft flying object , but once its launches a weapons it gives off a pretty big signiture ... stealth is only maintained untill the surface , integrity holds, curve, and ability of surface to deflect light away from incoming direction.

The ability to cool down the out going airflow , is interesting engineering achivemet but if Americans can run the heat flows thru the vents , internally in craft , and make it cold enough whe it comes out to avoid heat seeking missiles I am sure other nations can research in that area.

In theroy , if your plane has a diamon shape (surface properties) light will get reflected and radars will be deflected. As long as the xrays do not bounce on surface and come back

I am sure of 10-20 Pakistani engieers worked with a small scale prototype , they can come up with a shape that can deflect , any light / xray from a prototype surface.

After that it will challenge for Aeronutical engineers to test the prototype in wind tunnels for flyability

Stealth is not new , US had it since what 70's ? so now its pretty old techology almost absolete , probbly the russians already have it figured out - they just don't like to boast about their achivements


JF17 , can it be converted ? Yes just modify the surface of plance and hide the cannopy 100% so pilot runs the plane with no visuals or just make it UAV JF17 stealth.

Hide the weapons inside the frame of body ...

Stealth is determined by how well you deflect rays of radar , not size you can have plane size of titanic , but as log as it reflect radar beams - it will have signiture of a small bird or kite or ballon

No plane is 100% invisible -

Success rate of F22 is high only becasue , it is going up against , crows and eagles in air, their is no airforce, when it will be up against Russian fighters , 5-6 Russian planes can easily out manuver the F22 into submission as soon as they establish visuals

The momet the F22 opens fire , the ground Missiles will lock in under 1-2 second and launch a missile on to the target.

The radar absorbant chemicals that get painted on the plane are well just to further reduce its signiture - which routinely get painted on planes I think I read every time that plane flies every small section of plane is inspected to see if any paint got scrapped or came off during flight...

The samples may have already been bought off by Russians and Chinese - there were few stealth planes that went down in europe ...

I hope someone will be kind enough to send you links to what I posted here on how radar behave on a body and how RCS reduction works. You are treading into territory you know nothing about.

 

[desiman]

The planes still apear on radar, just that the signiture is so minor that , radar analyst might consider it a bird or other non aircraft flying object , but once its launches a weapons it gives off a pretty big signiture ... stealth is only maintained untill the surface , integrity holds, curve, and ability of surface to deflect light away from incoming direction.

The ability to cool down the out going airflow , is interesting engineering achivemet but if Americans can run the heat flows thru the vents , internally in craft , and make it cold enough whe it comes out to avoid heat seeking missiles I am sure other nations can research in that area.

In theroy , if your plane has a diamon shape (surface properties) light will get reflected and radars will be deflected. As long as the xrays do not bounce on surface and come back

I am sure of 10-20 Pakistani engieers worked with a small scale prototype , they can come up with a shape that can deflect , any light / xray from a prototype surface.

After that it will challenge for Aeronutical engineers to test the prototype in wind tunnels for flyability

Stealth is not new , US had it since what 70's ? so now its pretty old techology almost absolete , probbly the russians already have it figured out - they just don't like to boast about their achivements


JF17 , can it be converted ? Yes just modify the surface of plance and hide the cannopy 100% so pilot runs the plane with no visuals or just make it UAV JF17 stealth.

Hide the weapons inside the frame of body ...

Stealth is determined by how well you deflect rays of radar , not size you can have plane size of titanic , but as log as it reflect radar beams - it will have signiture of a small bird or kite or ballon

No plane is 100% invisible -

Success rate of F22 is high only becasue , it is going up against , crows and eagles in air, their is no airforce, when it will be up against Russian fighters , 5-6 Russian planes can easily out manuver the F22 into submission as soon as they establish visuals

The momet the F22 opens fire , the ground Missiles will lock in under 1-2 second and launch a missile on to the target.

The radar absorbant chemicals that get painted on the plane are well just to further reduce its signiture - which routinely get painted on planes I think I read every time that plane flies every small section of plane is inspected to see if any paint got scrapped or came off during flight...

The samples may have already been bought off by Russians and Chinese - there were few stealth planes that went down in europe ...

Please your making a joke out of yourself, as gambit said, your talking about things you have no idea about.

 

[amarnath]

JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter

In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. Present plans call for the latter MRCA to be powered by SNECMA Moteurs’ M88-3 twin-shaft bypass turbofan, incorporate a digital glass cockpit and open-architecture avionics suite, and use SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems’ Vixen 500E X-band multi-mode active phased-array radar, or AESA, an integrated electronic warfare/defensive aids suite being developed by China’s CETC, along with a helmet-mounted sighting-cum-cueing system for which systems from THALES, BAE Systems and Denel Aerospace are being evaluated. The M88 turbofan for this aircraft will have variable camber inlet guide vanes, while its high-pressure compressor will have a sixth stage, and its exhaust nozzle will be of the ejector type. The turbofan will deliver 50kN (11,250lb) of dry thrust and 75kN (17,000lb) with afterburning. The primary offensive armament to be carried by this aircraft will be two underwing-mounted Hatf-8 (also called ‘Raad’ or ‘thunder’ in Arabic) air-launched cruise missile, which has a range of 350km. For air combat engagements, the stealthy MRCA will be armed with three types of air-to-air missiles: 60km-range PL-12 beyond visual range missile; 15km-range PL-13 within visual range missile; and PL-14 ramjet-powered 100km-range missile. The latter two have been developed by China in cooperation with South Africa’s Denel Aerospace.


Defence Aviation

This can not even match the sukhoi 30 mki stealth which HAL and sukhoi are upto, forget the MCA and FGFA with that.... ...

 

[SBD-3]

Please your making a joke out of yourself, as gambit said, your talking about things you have no idea about.

I always expect such a post from you......suits your nick as well.....no other comments

 

[SBD-3]

This can not even match the sukhoi 30 mki stealth which HAL and sukhoi are upto, forget the MCA and FGFA with that.... ...

Yeah.....whatever

 

[desiman]

I always expect such a post from you......suits your nick as well.....no other comments

Well thats nice to hear you expect something from me, but whats a joke originally always remains one and that post was a joke if you like it or not.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Desidog, buddy can you stop your rant against JF-17 ??? If you don't like it, fine, just say so, why do you get into petty debates all the time in nearly every thread which is discussing JF-17 ???

You are one of the only Indian members, who non stop posts in JF-17 threads.

One line from you saying JF-17 is a crap is more then enough for us to know.

We know JF-17 is a crap in Indian eyes, no need to tell us again and again.

So plzz quit from these petty issues related to JF-17.

 

[desiman]

Desidog, buddy can you stop your rant against JF-17 ??? If you don't like it, fine, just say so, why do you get into petty debates all the time in nearly every thread which is discussing JF-17 ???

You are one of the only Indian members, who non stop posts in JF-17 threads.

One line from you saying JF-17 is a crap is more then enough for us to know.

We know JF-17 is a crap in Indian eyes, no need to tell us again and again.

So plzz quit from these petty issues related to JF-17.

taimikhan if you have actually read my post rather than always look at them with a sore eye only then you will see that i have really appreciated its brilliance. I have always called it an achievement for Pakistan and a really good move forward, but I only take offence when it gets compared with the MKI or any other jet in the world or when kids start fantasizing weird scenarios about it. I have always said that comparing jets will only be controversial and will only lead to more trolling. I have been in this industry for quite long and do not need to be told what I should say or not.

and excuse me, this is a public forum and its my right to indulge in any thread that i want to until and unless I am not breaking any rules which I am sure im not.

Regards

 

[TaimiKhan]

I have read your posts, as well as indulged in discussion with you,giving me enough know how about what your know how is.

Any sane person knows it is not comparable to MKI.

So if you say that you have knowledge of this sector (which I highly doubt, but off course it doesn't matters), so with knowledge of this sector you won't be indulging in insane discussions where guys with limited knowledge who do such childish comparisons.

If you have knowledge of this sector then don't indulge in such petty discussions, rather make one good statement highlighting the superiority of MKI, that is what knowledgeable person do.

Rest is upto you.

 

[desiman]

I have read your posts, as well as indulged in discussion with you,giving me enough know how about what your know how is.

Any sane person knows it is not comparable to MKI.

So if you say that you have knowledge of this sector (which I highly doubt, but off course it doesn't matters), so with knowledge of this sector you won't be indulging in insane discussions where guys with limited knowledge who do such childish comparisons.

If you have knowledge of this sector then don't indulge in such petty discussions, rather make one good statement highlighting the superiority of MKI, that is what knowledgeable person do.

Rest is upto you.

Lol yes any sane person knows that its not compariable to the MKI, but yet the JF-17 vs the MKI thread is huge with lots contribution from you too.

I dont need confirmation about my credentials from you or anyone and i have never asked for it to. Just being a mod does not certify anyone also here. I have given valid points from both sides of the argument but even then people who want to argue will continue to do so.
Knowledge is the eye of the beholder, maybe that is something that you should also learn before questioning someone else's comments. I don’t mean to sound offensive but I take great offense to the way you get your point across which can be quite intimidating at times. Relax, we are not fighting a war here lol

 

[BATMAN]

Let me remind that very recently InAF had discovered that the BVR missiles of MKI are expired and are not functioning correctly, hence major stock is useless.
Now a BVR less MKI will loose hands down to thunder.
remember redflag! how easily USAF shoot down MKI with guns!

 

[desiman]

Let me remind that very recently InAF had discovered that the BVR missiles of MKI are expired and are not functioning correctly, hence major stock is useless.
Now a BVR less MKI will loose hands down to thunder.
remember redflag! how easily USAF shoot down MKI with guns!

India’s ATRTA BVR to Undergo New Trials

India’s homegrown air-to-air missile Astra will undergo its carriage trials which will have test pilots from the Aircraft systems and Testing Establishment taking off in a Su-30 MKI combat aircraft provided by the Indian Air Force. Astra missile has been successfully test fired earlier this year but the indigenization of the critical technology is yet to be perfected.

Officials revealed that evaluation tests and telemetry on the Su-30 is being done and the combat aircraft will be modified to carry the missile on it at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The trials will involve a mock Astra missile which is not electrically connected to the on-board system of the SU-30 and the missile will be devoid of explosives as well.
The trials will reveal the mechanical, structural and electrical compatibility aspect of the missile and the aircraft besides verifying the amount of strain on the aircraft. This first phase will involve the participation of 20 sorties and the second phase will verify the integration of the missile’s avionics with the aircraft. The first phase will begin in January, 2009 and the second phase is expected in July 2009.

Presently, the Astra missile has a Russian Launcher and Seeker Head and they are yet to be integrated with the radar and other aspects of the missile.

Astra missile is a part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and is developed by a team of defence laboratories headed by the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL). Astra is designed for an 80 kilometre range in head-on mode and 20 km-range in tail-chase mode.

The beyond visual range missile has been integrated with the carrier aircraft Sukhoi-30 MKI and integration with other fighter jets like mirage 2000 and MiG 29 will be taken up after the guided test to verify its accuracy in destroying manoeuvring targets. Astra missile can be launched after receiving a signal from the far away target and it will seek and home in using a complex range of onboard manoeuvres based on radio frequency (RF).

DRDL took nearly five years to develop the 150-kg tactical missile. Before the control and guided tests, two experimental flight tests were conducted in March 2007 to study the ballistic performance and control of the missile at low altitudes and shorter ranges.


And please stop talkng about red flag lol the argument is old and boring and is the only thing many people have found against the MKI. It still does not take anything away from the fact that the MKI is by far the best jet in the region. If you want i can post more updated info about Indian BVR missiles.

 

[kashith]

Let me remind that very recently InAF had discovered that the BVR missiles of MKI are expired and are not functioning correctly, hence major stock is useless.
Now a BVR less MKI will loose hands down to thunder.
remember redflag! how easily USAF shoot down MKI with guns!

Right.USAF is equivalent to PAF.Of course it makes sense.PAF will knock off MKI from the skies.

 

[desiman]

Right.USAF is equivalent to PAF.Of course it makes sense.PAF will knock off MKI from the skies.

lol yup so true