JF-17

[Zeeshan S.]

Originally posted by kashifshahzad@Dec 26 2005, 09:56 AM
Mate belive it or not the DSI has improved the speed from 1.6 mach to 1.8 this factor is important for PAF and also for the export market i have searched it from a search engine please do the same please write JF-17 with 1.8 mach speed.
Nope my dear, the new prototype has delayed the production 1 year ahead but it is good for PAF.Mattey there are different types of Varients you can see clearly that F-16 has different varients the latest varients are better in capebilities.Same is the case with all planes PAF will have the first batch for its inventory i think they are 50 in number they will have the same configration as the forth prototype has and the export version may differ it depends that how much friendly is the country is to which pakistan is going to export the aircraft.Then later the Chineese reverse enginerred engine can be installed in the thunders and there can be improvement in the radar and PAF can also think for the increase in the hardpoints as Rafale has.

[post=4823]Quoted post[/post]​

If PAF tries to increase the hardpoints it will need a pretty good modifications for it, which yet JF-17 is not capable of. Plus the Chinese reverse enginerred engine is WS-13 which is a downgraded version of RD-93. I head it has almost the same thurst as RD-93 has and is pretty capable.

Kashif, do you know what engine will the first batch will have? Will it be RD-93, or WS-13(I doubt it is finished yet) or will it be some french engine?

 

[Kashif]

Originally posted by mysterious@Dec 26 2005, 10:40 PM
If PAF tries to increase the hardpoints it will need a pretty good modifications for it, which yet JF-17 is not capable of. Plus the Chinese reverse enginerred engine is WS-13 which is a downgraded version of RD-93. I head it has almost the same thurst as RD-93 has and is pretty capable.

Kashif, do you know what engine will the first batch will have? Will it be RD-93, or WS-13(I doubt it is finished yet) or will it be some french engine?

[post=4827]Quoted post[/post]​

Matty initialy this was the report

POWERPLANT
One Russian-made RD-93 turbofans rated 49.4kN dry or 81.4kN with afterburning. China has reportedly imported five RD-93s from Russia to power the prototypes, but agreement of further purchase and re-export of the engine in together with the fighter aircraft has yet been reached. China may seek to power the aircraft with an indigenously-developed powerplant.

Now it depends Russia has only supplied Mi17 helicopters to Pakistan but I think whole things depends on India MRCA purchases if India goes for more westren specially US ACs then situation will be changed if India goes for only westren i.e the french of swedish ACs then there are lesser chances for Pakistan to get the engines i hope if Pakistan dosent get the engines from russia then the serial production of thunders can be delayed to wait for the Chineese reverse engineered engine or to search for an alternate.Hope for the good in future.

 

[EagleEyes]

The future however doesn't look birght, as India is now planning to get two types of aircrafts, and i will assume that it will go for Mig-35 to stop Pakistan from getting engine and also further increase Russian and Indian ties. Also one need to know this, i dont why we are relying on Russia that if India goes for a western aircraft they will give us the engine/aircrafts, etc.

Do you guys even know that India has gotten two nuclear submarines on lease? Come on now, who gives another country a nuclear submarine on lease unless they have very strong ties. I am starting to doubt that Russia will go with Pakistan if India goes for another western aircraft (not to mention now that there are two choices.)

Its stupid to even think about it, Russia needs money to take care its industry and a big supporter of it is already there.

 

[Kashif]

Originally posted by WebMaster@Dec 27 2005, 09:58 PM
The future however doesn't look birght, as India is now planning to get two types of aircrafts, and i will assume that it will go for Mig-35 to stop Pakistan from getting engine and also further increase Russian and Indian ties. Also one need to know this, i dont why we are relying on Russia that if India goes for a western aircraft they will give us the engine/aircrafts, etc.

Do you guys even know that India has gotten two nuclear submarines on lease? Come on now, who gives another country a nuclear submarine on lease unless they have very strong ties. I am starting to doubt that Russia will go with Pakistan if India goes for another western aircraft (not to mention now that there are two choices.)

Its stupid to even think about it, Russia needs money to take care its industry and a big supporter of it is already there.

[post=4844]Quoted post[/post]​

First of all this project was started in 1998/99 at that time the relations between the Pakistan and Russia were the same which Pakistan have now.So before this project was started why Pakistan didnt suggested that there must be another engine for the thunders,Russian did suppied 5 engines for the prototypes but who know Russia will supply more engines and the chances are near to 0%.
Webby the future dosent look too bright but when there is a will then there is a way, both countires will find a way throungh by installing the WS-13 or any other westeren engine.Lets hope for the best

 

[Kashif]

Originally posted by Owais@Dec 28 2005, 08:34 PM
why don't china get RD93 via TOT??
are there other(better) options like WS13A if russia stopped the supply of RD93 Engine?

[post=4856]Quoted post[/post]​

You are repeating the same thing again and again mattey.If China gets the engines via ToT then Russia will not allow the re-export of engines and all options which are suitable will be tried.Dont worry mate remain cool

 

[EagleEyes]

Originally posted by kashifshahzad@Dec 29 2005, 05:47 AM
You are repeating the same thing again and again mattey.If China gets the engines via ToT then Russia will not allow the re-export of engines and all options which are suitable will be tried.Dont worry mate remain cool

[post=4864]Quoted post[/post]​

I am guessing that RD-93 will finally make it through no matter what. Currently we are relying on stupid media, which knows nothing that goes behind the scenes. My guess is that RD-93 will finally equip JF-17 no matter how much India lobbies for, because China will get it through. In the end India's response will be that due to increasing relations we have allowed Pakistan to recieve Russian engines.

This situation can occur though in which first batch will be with Chinese engine etc, but later ones will surely have a capable engine like RD-93 or close to it if refused some how.

 

[EagleEyes]

The speed of JF-17 is to be Mach 1.8 officially. Also according to janes JF-17 will be a full FBW aircraft, but it says that the flight control system has FBW in the yaw axis only, with conventional controls for pitch and roll.

Here is the picture below.

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[Kashif]

Originally posted by WebMaster+Dec 30 2005, 01:28 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WebMaster &#064; Dec 30 2005, 01:28 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I am guessing that RD-93 will finally make it through no matter what. Currently we are relying on stupid media, which knows nothing that goes behind the scenes. My guess is that RD-93 will finally equip JF-17 no matter how much India lobbies for, because China will get it through. In the end India&#39;s response will be that due to increasing relations we have allowed Pakistan to recieve Russian engines.

This situation can occur though in which first batch will be with Chinese engine etc, but later ones will surely have a capable engine like RD-93 or close to it if refused some how.

[post=4879]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Webby good point I also hope for the same I think its a long time that the Russian and Pakistani relations are limited now there must be a break through.

<!--QuoteBegin-kashifshahzad Posted Dec 26 2005@ 02:56 PM
Mate belive it or not the DSI has improved the speed from 1.6 mach to 1.8 this factor is important for PAF and also for the export market i have searched it from a search engine please do the same please write JF-17 with 1.8 mach speed.[/quote]

Owais you can clearly see in the Article which is posted by the webmaster that the speed of thunder has increased from 1.6 Mach to 1.8 after the DSI change made in the air intakes

 

[Salmaan]

It is unlikely that Russia will allow the sale of RD-93 engines to Pakistan.

The likelihood of China reverse-engineering the RD-93 into the WS-? engine and exporting that to Pakistan is probable.

Members may kindly answer one question of mine, which is that why is Pakistan purchasing additional 75 F-16s, when it can suffice for with an equivalent number of JF-17s. I can say with sufficient confidence that if India had manufactured such an aircraft, it would not have placed a tender for 126 MRCA jets.

 

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by Salmaan@Jan 21 2006, 04:27 PM
It is unlikely that Russia will allow the sale of RD-93 engines to Pakistan.

The likelihood of China reverse-engineering the RD-93 into the WS-? engine and exporting that to Pakistan is probable.

Members may kindly answer one question of mine, which is that why is Pakistan purchasing additional 75 F-16s, when it can suffice for with an equivalent number of JF-17s. I can say with sufficient confidence that if India had manufactured such an aircraft, it would not have placed a tender for 126 MRCA jets.

[post=5551]Quoted post[/post]​

The amount of F-16 that pakistan is going for isn&#39;t confirmed so you cant just say that Pakistan is going for 75.The JF-17 Thunder in my opinion is as good as the F-16A and B.Pakistan is going for the F-16 Block 50 & 52 which is a highly modern fighter that no aircraft that China & Pakistan operate can match upto.Pakistan in the 80&#39;s fell in love with the Viper and was expecting to go for 120 of them but, thanxs to sanction the Viperz been delayed for a few decade, the rest myfriend is just Politics

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Some recent pictures:

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The above picture is of the new J-10, in which Musharraf is sitting in. The rest are the recent pictures shown on the Chinese T.V.

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And some old ones.

 

[Bull]

JF 17 i still years away,how can a plane which made structural changes be put into production in a years time does that give enough time to test the new structure and see if it meets all parameters.

Things look liked falling into pieces some years back,but now the latest reports of &#39;constant upgradation&#39; looks like continiuing it to eternity.

Jusification given is so as to match the parameters of blk 50 offered by US,so what parameters were it meeting before?

So what was these hype abt all these years???

Any AC that PAF inducts which is not as modern as blk 50 is useless.IAF wont be acquiring anything less than blk 50 std fighters, and even blk 50 is not the latest, blk 60 UAE has is the latest.

The new JF 17,looks good if what the report is accurate.

 

[Sid]

Someone asked why Pakistan intended to buy up to 75 F-16 Block 52s when it was already developing Jf-17 and could just order more Jf-17s instead. Well its a little more complex than that. Jf-17 is to form the backbone of the PAF but will NOT be the most advanced fighter in service with it. This is similar to the IAF&#39;s idea of inducting their indigenous LCA Tejas (which is currently being delayed again due to Kaveri engine issues).

F-16s are being acquired to give the bulk of the airforce (Jf-17 units) that punch ability. And the last acquisition on PAF&#39;s table is the 4th generation fighter jet which would form its frontline.

So currently, PAF&#39;s envisaged structure is somewhat as follows:

50 Mirages III or V (retain till 2015)

150 Jf-17s (initial order - may increase if Mirages are retired earlier or if more double-seater versions are acquired or a naval version is built)

110 F-16s (around 35 in service which would are being given MLU and 75 to be procured)

50 J-10s (if not Gripens)

This is still a conservative estimate because it only accounts for 360 AC where as PAF is looking for somewhere around 500 AC to maintain its &#39;minimum deterrence&#39; levels against an ever increaasing IAF fleet size and capability.

The perception that Jf-17 is being brought up to Block 50 standard is unfounded because that can hardly be done given Block 50s huge technological advantage over the Jf-17. It is more in the league of Block 30/32 so that is quite good as far as PAF requirements are concerned. And that is enough to counter IAF&#39;s mid-tech fighters as well as its up coming LCA Tejas.

Block 60 is of course the most advanced F-16 fighter but it is only UAE specific. No other country can acquire the same jet as far as I understand of the agreement between UAE authorities and LM. It costs &#036;80mil a piece which is more than what a Rafael would cost you. LM has been looking to offer IAF similar option of a customized version of F-16 but so far it hasn&#39;t gone down well with IAF officials because I&#39;m sure they don&#39;t want to spend &#036;80mil a piece as they already have Su-30s which cost them around &#036;30-&#036;40mil a piece.

 

[Bull]

well you got it right.

Except for the blk 60, blk 60 isnt an off the shelf product but a custimised one meeting all the reaments put fwd by UAE.The agreement is that the same shudnt be puton sale as off the shlef.
But any country buying f 16 can ask LM t ocusomise it to their conficuration and that wud be called say blk 70 as the one in offer to india is called.

or more like the MKI verion of the Su 30

 

[Sid]

I&#39;m sure there was no need to repeat what I already made clear in my last post.

Anyways, no country can just &#39;ask&#39; the LM to customize F-16s or any other AC for them unless LM offers them this option like it has in India&#39;s case. The reason is less political because for a certain customized version, there is a certain cost of production which has to meet its break even point by producing a certain number of aircraft so that it makes it feasible to make a custom requirement AC.

This is the main reason why a customized F-16 version was not offered to the PAF (it wasn&#39;t buying enough; 50 new and 15 MLU is not LM&#39;s most suitable piece of pie).