JF-17 Thunder still under evaluation by the PLAAF

[untitled]

well jf-17 is in PLAAF People's Liberation Army Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is not a good source regarding this matter

 

[SBD-3]

There is no dodging. You are fairly unclear in what you ask.
If your objective was to know how the JF-17 meets hit and high performance conditions I have made it clear to you.
If you objective is to appease your ego by belittling the JF-17 in front of the MMRCA.. I have no time for you.
Please be clear what you want instead of making feeble attempts at being a smart alec.

Most of them dont even know what are they talking, I think when he hinted that MR planes, it should have been enough signal for you to understand how good his knowledge is about airodynamics and design.

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

Listen mate ...I just ask you about the specific as you were saying that jf-17 has done pretty well at high altitude...but I just gave the example of MCRA competition in which few were not able to perform well at high altitude ..after that u gave me some example which are basically customized solutions for specific conditions. and how have made it clear the excellent performance of jf -17 at high altitude without going into any specific ? sorry for my comprehension skills. I put a scenario why plaaf is not going for jf-17 but no one has given any specific.

Okey whats the reason why aircraft cant perform at high altetude? (Just wana know your answer) and an aircraft can perform better?

---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

Even i remember a defence journalist saying that Indian pilots still see Mirag as a much smoother platform to operate than MKI.

 

[killerx]

JF17 is the best multi role fighter jet cost low great perfomance Block2 even better

 

[Yang Xi Gua]

I think PLAAF uses J-10B PAF uses JF-17. better logistics this way

 

[Storm Force]

Please dont be offended by my post i am not trying to TROLL

Take one look at CHINA,s geography its MASSIVE i mean like 10 times the size of Pakistan.

PLAAF need their single engine fighter to have range and payload J10 forfills this at present.

Secondly take a look at PLAAF potential asdversary RUSSIA JAPAN SOUTH KOREA TAIWAN INDIA & USA battle groups with F18S/H ... This means the PLAAF really need a hi end hi tech air force again Flankers & J10 make really good sense.

Thirdly look at the size of the PLAAF budget... OVER $100 billion ofiicially ( $150 billion unoffically) the chinease are true super power and need a LIKE air force fleet...

The chinease just dont have a suitable operational requirement for a lightweight single engined small fighter.

But are happy to continue to help Pakistan DEVELOPE IT AND MARKET IT TO those countries that meets the JFT profile far better..........

 

[Yang Xi Gua]

The chinease just dont have a suitable operational requirement for a lightweight single engined small fighter.

I bet to differ. JFT is by no means a small fighter, and with a combat radius of 1,352 km (to be much more in Block 2) it is by no means short legged. It is however, less costly to maintain as compared to a J-10

 

[pakfoj]

@ Indians. Why do you all care about China and JF-17? Thats the secret. If they don't have it, then we have it. We are supposed to get engaged in war with you first before China. I'm sure China is looking to give us advanced weapons first before they induct it on their own. J-10B is made for us, as part of PAF requirements. So now, you should be questioning, why they haven't placed an order for it but Pakistan did already? I'm sure J-10B is a lot better than J-10A. They should look to induct that first. Shouldn't they?

China has always been after double engine jets. They are after the U.S, NATO, and they need it to counter F-15s, F-18s, Rafale, Eurofighter, F-22, F-35.
If they were after you, then they would certainly be doing what we are doing, a light weight, less maintenance prone, and with better weapons.

Yes they do copy jets. In fact that not funny. Reverse engineering is extremely hard to do. I would like to see Indians trying to reverse engineer Rafale
you can't even make LCA, but you think making MCA will become easier for you?

very well said bro!!

 

[Pakistanisage]

Please dont be offended by my post i am not trying to TROLL

Take one look at CHINA,s geography its MASSIVE i mean like 10 times the size of Pakistan.

PLAAF need their single engine fighter to have range and payload J10 forfills this at present.

Secondly take a look at PLAAF potential asdversary RUSSIA JAPAN SOUTH KOREA TAIWAN INDIA & USA battle groups with F18S/H ... This means the PLAAF really need a hi end hi tech air force again Flankers & J10 make really good sense.

Thirdly look at the size of the PLAAF budget... OVER $100 billion ofiicially ( $150 billion unoffically) the chinease are true super power and need a LIKE air force fleet...

The chinease just dont have a suitable operational requirement for a lightweight single engined small fighter.

But are happy to continue to help Pakistan DEVELOPE IT AND MARKET IT TO those countries that meets the JFT profile far better..........

I agree with your analysis on many points. JFT was basically designed for Pakistan's REQUIREMENTS and not for China's benefit, right from the get go. Pakistan needed a low cost Multi-Role fighter which could also double up for CAS which could be produced in Pakistan with China's help. Pakistan Air Force was interested in using this aircraft for a defensive posture so a range of 1500 KM was enough to leave more room for the Ammunition payload. So JFT was developed to match the three basic requirements of Cost, Range and Payload and naturally the low cost meant single engine profile Which put constraints on range and Payload.

The point is that this aircraft was designed keeping in mind Pakistan's Geography, the distance from its frontline air bases to the border as well as distance to Indian frontline air bases. The 1500Km range was enough to reach Indian forward bases and back with enough weight savings to allow for maximum Payload.

JFT is NOT a deep strike fighter/bomber nor is it designed to be an AIR SUPERIORITY fighter. Even with further improvements in Blk 2 and 3 with addition of AESA radar and BVI capability, it will still remain a defensive Multi-Role Fighter/Bomber. The point is JFT is designed to meet our specific requirements at a cost that matches our budget. Also, this is an aircraft that we produce in cooperation with China, so there are no strings attached on how we use it or fear of Embargo. We will induct large numbers of JFT ( 150 to 300 ) to replace aging F-7's, Mirage III and Mirage V's etc.

Pakistan may add other Fighters for deep strike capability and Air Superiority profile if it needs such aircrafts based on its threat perceptions and its overall Air Strategy.

JFT was not designed for Chinese Air Force and unless it serves any special niche requirement for China, it is highly unlikely that China would induct it in their Air Force.

For all those who keep insisting that China will also induct this aircraft in their Air Force is like saying that the Architect who designed your house according to your requirement will also use the same design to build his house also. Guys, that does not make any sense.

 

[muse]

This "Low cost" mantra, this lack of vision when it comes to understanding "branding" is going to harm JFT immeasurably - Please stop and think what you are doing to this brand by continually selling it's primary attribute as being "low cost" -- the affordability of the JFT "System" is an important attribute of the "system", however, it's primary attribute is that it is a "system" that offers Air Forces around the world, a "system" that can reliably and effectively promote the defense capabilities to meet evolving threats and enable Air forces a platform that incorporates a wide variety of mission capabilities.

By continuously mouthing this "low cost" virtue, all that is being done is to play done the effectiveness of the JFT - soon there will other competitors, both with regard to capability and affordability (think of the number of F16 that will soon have t make way for F35) - so please do give a thought to the kind of brand consciousness you are creating with this silly "low cost" rubbish.

 

[pshamim]

Very true. A very thoughtful post.

 

[Pakistanisage]

This "Low cost" mantra, this lack of vision when it comes to understanding "branding" is going to harm JFT immeasurably - Please stop and think what you are doing to this brand by continually selling it's primary attribute as being "low cost" -- the affordability of the JFT "System" is an important attribute of the "system", however, it's primary attribute is that it is a "system" that offers Air Forces around the world, a "system" that can reliably and effectively promote the defense capabilities to meet evolving threats and enable Air forces a platform that incorporates a wide variety of mission capabilities.

By continuously mouthing this "low cost" virtue, all that is being done is to play done the effectiveness of the JFT - soon there will other competitors, both with regard to capability and affordability (think of the number of F16 that will soon have t make way for F35) - so please do give a thought to the kind of brand consciousness you are creating with this silly "low cost" rubbish.

What a bunch of Hogwash ?

The low cost feature is the key branding strong point of JFT. It fills a NICHE MARKET which BTW is TEN times bigger than the market for F-18, Rafale, EF Typhoons etc.

The buyers are not stupid and they are far more knowledgeable and sophisticated than an INTERNET WARRIOR.

If they have the money to buy Rafale, they wont be checking out JFT, no matter how you package it.

The key selling point of JFT is that for 25 to 35 Million USD it can deliver a solid Punch ( especially JFT Blk 2 and 3 ) With AESA and BVR capability. There are more than a dozen Air Forces with similar profile as PAF that will find JFT very appealing. These are Air Forces that don't have the Budget for 80 to 110 Million dollars per aircraft and have aging Soviet era planes that need to be replaced. That is the MARKET for JFT. You have to position your product in the right MARKET.You don't pitch a Honda Accord to a BMW or Lexus buyer and vice versa. That is Marketing 101, Padre....

 

[muse]

What a bunch of Hogwash ?

The low cast feature is the key branding strong point of JFT. It fills a NICHE MARKET which BTW is TEN times the market for F-18, Rafale, EF Typhoons etc.

The buyers are not stupid and they are far more knowledgeable and sophisticated than an INTERNET WARRIOR.

If they have the money to buy Rafale, they wont be checking out JFT, no matter how you package it.

The key selling point of JFT is that for 25 to 35 Million USD it can deliver a solid Punch ( especially JFT Blk 2 and 3 ) With AESA and BVR capability. There are more than a dozen Air Forces with similar profile as PAF that will find JFT very appealing. These are Air Forces that don't have the Budget for 80 to 110 Million dollars per aircraft and have aging Soviet era planes that need to be replaced. That is the MARKET for JFT. You have to position your product in the right MARKET. That is Marketing 101, Padre....

At the Dubai air show, US officers, in response to the "low cost" mantra, were quoted as saying that you could shoot down 5 JFT for the cost of one F16 - so which would Air forces want to equip themselves with?

Anyway, you suit yourself - however, you will hear less and less of this "low cost" stuff, because we are not selling low cost, but rather "high effectiveness"

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Affordability was the concept behind this endeavor .Chinese were not that fool.They never advertised their Jian-10 like this ,but they tried to capture the ever thirsty developing countries via the FC-1.Once the fighter will be an active part of fleets of those developing nations.There will be an option to upgrade it to the standards the buyer want to achieve.And the Chinese will have PAF(who's the first customer) as an example to build that trust.

 

[Pakistanisage]

At the Dubai air show, US officers, in response to the "low cost" mantra, were quoted as saying that you could shoot down 5 JFT for the cost of one F16 - so which would Air forces want to equip themselves with?

Anyway, you suit yourself - however, you will hear less and less of this "low cost" stuff, because we are not selling low cost, but rather "high effectiveness"

That is just the point. The USA wants to expand the F16 Blk 60 market but the problem is the Blk 60 comes with a price tag of 85 Million USD and there are only handful of Air Forces that can afford that price. Also keep in mind that the F16blk 60 is competing with its own rival F18, Rafale, Eurofighter, for a very small market.

Whereas JFT is unsurpassed with no rival in 25 to 35 Million range ( Indian LCA does not even come close and is no where ready for global market ). We all want to buy a ferrari but how many have the resources to buy a ferrari. Anyone who hears that F16 BLK 60 can shoot five of JFT BLK 2 or 3 with AESA and BVR will laugh. F16 is a good Dogfight Aircraft but has not been tested against BVR capable Fighters. To claim that Blk 60 can shoot five JFT which is also bvr capable is rather a tall claim which would be laughed at by people who know the business.

 

[muse]

lets see, 5 x 30million = 150million and a F16 at 80million -- are you good at math??