JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Introvert]

JF-17 logs over 19,000 operational flight hours

The Pakistan Air Force’s JF-17s have logged over 19,000 operational flight hours, talks are also underway with up to eight countries interested in the Thunder

By Bilal Khan

Alan Warnes, an aviation journalist and leading Pakistan Air Force (PAF) watcher, recently reported that the PAF’s JF-17s have logged more than 19,000 operational fight hours since the fighter’s induction into active service in 2011. There are 65 JF-17s in the PAF (allocated to three operational fighter squadrons and a training unit belonging to Combat Commanders School).

Although the dual-seat JF-17B is slated for induction by April 2017, Alan Warnes was able to learn from PAF officials that the first JF-17B will be delivered to Pakistan by December of this year.

Elsewhere, Pakistan’s Minister of Defence Production, Rana Tanveer Hussain, told Pakistani media outlets that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) was in talks with “seven or eight” countries over the possibility of selling JF-17s. Details into which countries were not disclosed.

Comment & Analysis

It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the JF-17B will impact those talks. The dual-seat JF-17B is expected to strengthen PAC’s ability to market the Thunder to prospective buyers.

Not only will it offer a familiar means for training and converting to the JF-17, but the PAF could even market the JF-17B as a stand-alone solution. For example, the JF-17B will essentially be used as a lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) or fighter conversion unit (FCU) platform in the PAF. PAC could market the JF-17B as a low-cost LIFT, one with a comprehensive training package involving high-fidelity simulators as well.

Alternatively, integration with a competitive targeting pod and a wide range of air-to-ground munitions (such as laser-guided bombs, missiles and rockets) and stand-off weapons (such as anti-ship cruise missiles and glide-bombs) could position the JF-17B as a low-cost attack fighter.

For air forces with limited funding and/or access to Western goods, a JF-17B strike platform could be an interesting means to both replace far less capable older jets (such as the MiG-21) as well as affordably build modern qualitative capabilities – such as precision-strike and anti-ship warfare.

In fact, packaging an end-to-end solution that includes various air-to-ground munitions could open up an opportunity for Pakistan to vertically integrate customers, and thus, open up additional opportunities for the Pakistani defence industry.

By being the primary source of the JF-17’s munitions, organizations such as Global Industrial Defence Solutions (GIDS), National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), and Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) could enhance the JF-17’s value proposition as well as increase the revenue accrued from its sale. This could also be way to offset the cost of raising local production capacities for munitions, particularly expensive ones such as anti-ship missiles or new-generation air-to-air missiles.

http://quwa.org/2016/04/29/jf-17-logs-19000-operational-flight-hours/

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Great achivement by the Thunder force

 

[ssethii]

So 21 block-IIs have seen the light so far, next milestone would be, thunder rolling out with IFR probe.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

What happened to the IFR prob ?

 

[JamD]

What happened to the IFR prob ?

It is detachable and is only installed when the mission calls for it as it causes additional drag and blocks a part of the view.

Block-II has the internal plumbing needed to install the IFR probe, not the actual probe permanently installed.

 

[mughaljee]

Ideas about the JF-17 Block-III’s HOBS AAM.

With the addition of a helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system, active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar, a high off-boresight (HOBS) air-to-air missile (AAM), and potentially even infrared search and track (IRST), the JF-17 Block-III is poised to be a significant upgrade for the Thunder.

Having already taken a look at the JF-17 Block-III’s HMD/S and IRST options, we will devote this article at the various HOBS AAM options potentially available to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) for use on the JF-17. HOBS AAMs – which include 5th-generation within visual range air-to-air missiles (WVRAAM) – are highly capable munitions for close quarters air-to-air combat.

A result of over 50 years of developmental work on making air-to-air missiles resistant to modern jamming and self-protection measures, HOBS AAM technology seeks to imbue fighter aircraft with highly credible dogfighting capabilities. For example, the introduction of digital imaging infrared (IIR) seekers has enabled these AAMs to be highly resistant to current self-protection methods (involving flares).

Moreover, HOBS AAMs can also be slaved to HMD/S, enabling a pilot to cue the missile’s target using his or her eyesight. Paired with a thrust-vectoring nozzle and high-speed rocket, that is a dangerous combination, thus making dogfights a high risk proposition (notwithstanding the rise of new countermeasures to thwart these missiles).

The JF-17’s HOBS AAM options basically boil down to two strong options: The Luoyang Electro-Optical Research Institute (LEOC) PL-10 and Denel Dynamics A-Darter.

The LEOC PL-10 is China’s latest WVRAAM. Marketed as a “world class” product, the PL-10 certainly looks like a highly promising system. China’s IIR seeker technology has certainly advanced, not only is it present in the PL-10, but it is also making its way to next-generation short-range and man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) (such as the QW-19). Although it has not yet been seen, the PL-10 will likely be paired with a new Western-inspired HMD/S system.

The Denel Dynamics A-Darter is not much different. The physical parameters are comparable, though the range has not been disclosed (unlike the PL-10 – 20km+), Denel Dynamics does claim that the A-Darter can be used “beyond IR detection range.” It is probably in the 20km+ range.

Overall, the PAF will not go wrong with either option. Granted, the LEOC PL-10 does benefit from the fact that it will have assured developmental support from China, meaning, new variants will be on the horizon. A J-10C was spotted with the PL-10 as well.

This is speculation on our part, but the A-Darter may be available on the market today; if the PAF can secure a readily available HMD/S, it could equip the JF-17 Block-I/II with HOBS AAMs right away. But it seems the capability is being staged with the JF-17 Block-III, hence the PL-10’s potentially later market availability date does not really affect the program.

As it stands, the PAF will probably go for the PL-10, especially if the HMD/S is sourced from China as well. For what it is worth, these are very high profile programs for the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) in that they closely tie with its next-generation fighter programs, namely the J-20. For the PAF to go with the A-Darter, the A-Darter would have to perform substantially better than the PL-10, which is unlikely, especially given the developing funding China is pushing behind its programs. The only dampener would be Chinese reluctance to release the PL-10, if not to the PAF, then for prospective export customers of the JF-17. If there is a need for the A-Darter (and Western HMD/S), it will likely be in the context of an export-centric JF-17.

There is another issue to consider as well. The acquisition of a HOBS AAM could potentially be linked to an acquisition of next-generation MANPAD and SHORAD systems. The guidance, range, electronic counter-countermeasure (ECCM) and maneuverability gains of these AAMs would make for excellent successors to Pakistan’s existing SHORAD set-up. Given how these missiles could be scaled across a wide number of use cases over the long-term, Pakistan might benefit from acquiring the core missile design alongside the necessary rights and infrastructure for local licensed manufacturing.

From the angle of transfer-of-technology and manufacturing on license, the A-Darter could stand a credible chance over the PL-10. Granted, it would be the riskier proposition for the PAF, but Denel Dynamics is not averse to such arrangements. Furthermore, unlike some of Denel Dynamics’ other programs (e.g. the Marlin), the A-Darter’s development is complete and the missile is in production. If the core technology could be scaled for SHORAD applications, especially over the long-term, the acquisition costs of the A-Darter (with local licensed production) could be distributed.

In any case, the PAF has its options in this area. This could be one of the features of the JF-17 Block-III that might be finalized earlier than the other subsystems, such as the AESA radar. In fact, HOBS AAM could be readily integrated onto the JF-17 Block-I/II, giving them a solid capability boost in relatively short-order. HMD/S is not even necessary (in terms of a short-term upgrade). For example, the A-Darter has a wide-angle scan feature, which enables it to acquire identify and lock onto targets independently. Given that the core technologies are comparable, the PL-10 should be capable of the same.
http://quwa.org/2016/05/05/ideas-jf-17-block-iiis-hobs-aam/

 

[Tempest II]

Looks like JF-17 data had been out since mid-2013 nut will "missed" it:

 

[HRK]

Looks like JF-17 data had been out since mid-2013 nut will "missed" it:

View attachment 303765

already posted in Information poll ....

 

[princefaisal]

Air intake of JF-17 should be enlarged upto 5-10% to accommodate the WS-10 engine and 20% more wing area for more hardpoints and fuel capacity in the upcoming blocks.

 

[Bratva]

Air intake of JF-17 should be enlarged upto 5-10% to accommodate the WS-10 engine and 20% more wing area for more hardpoints and fuel capacity in the upcoming blocks.

Wingspan of JF-17 B has been increased 1 meter extra So there will be more fuel and extra HP in B version

 

[Paksanity]

Wingspan of JF-17 B has been increased 1 meter extra So there will be more fuel and extra HP in B version

No extra hard point in JF-17B or extra fuel. Both are same as JF-17.

 

[Bratva]

No extra hard point in JF-17B or extra fuel. Both are same as JF-17.

Lets see if 1 meter increase in wingspan bring these things along or not.

 

[Paksanity]

Lets see if 1 meter increase in wingspan bring these things along or not.

Number of stations are already mentioned on Chinese poster. It's 7. Same as now.

 

[khanasifm]

extra hard-point will be added in block iii and dual seater is part of blk 2
f-104 hardpoints

just show me the money
F35

 

[Deino]

So 21 block-IIs have seen the light so far, next milestone would be, thunder rolling out with IFR probe.

But there is already aircraft 2-29 ... as expected the first aircraft fitted with IFR-probe was ever planned to be the no. 29. But I agree with You that serial ones are still lacking that item.


By the way ... is there some sort of confirmation, that all older batch 01 aircraft have been updated to batch 02 (even without the probe) ?

Deino

extra hard-point will be added in block iii and dual seater is part of blk 2
f-104 hardpoints

just show me the money
F35

Sorry, but this configuration is plain stupid and the batch 03 will NEVER have such a configuration.

I don't know where these ideas always pop up and why some think enlarging the airframe + wing to fit the WS-10 ... put this is pure fan-art or fan-boys wet-dreams.

Deino