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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

I don't know where else to put this. But since this is about WS-13E & it is the alternative engine for FC-1, if not JF-17, this thread seems somewhat appropriate:


I came across this at SDF & this was shared by @minusone in one of the threads relating to J-35.

Google translate of the appropriate section:

First, Li Yang replaced the four-stage fan of the RD-33 with the three-stage fan of the original WS-12. The new fan shortened the length of the engine by 44 mm, increased the flow rate by 6 kg per second, and increased the maximum thrust to 9.06 tons (88.94KN). Moreover, the weight is lighter, and the new fan also increases the first-level impact resistance by more than ten times, and is more resistant to bird strikes. Here Klimov’s approach is completely different. It adjusts the original four-stage fan of the RD-33 based on optimization. This is the RD-33MK; the second step is to use a brand new jointly developed by Li Yang and Klimov. Low-pressure turbine, the new low-pressure turbine can increase the operating temperature by 70 degrees, and the work efficiency is also higher. Using this turbine can better realize the potential of the new three-stage fan. After the improvement, the maximum thrust is 9.28 tons (91.1KN). Here Klimov also switched to the WS-12 three-stage fan scheme, and the model launched with the new low-pressure turbine is the RD-33MKM; in the third step, Li Yang redesigned the new WS-12 combustion chamber based on the original WS-12 combustion chamber. Combustion chamber, the original RD-33 combustion chamber is too backward, lean fuel and rich combustion until the final efficiency is low, so there will always be thicker black smoke, modified the new combustion chamber WS-13 completely solved this problem, let the gas The distribution is more stable and uniform. The improvement of the combustion chamber can not increase the thrust, but it can greatly reduce fuel consumption and increase the engine life. In the fourth step, Klimov replaces the original directional solidification blades with single crystal turbine blades, which makes the working temperature of the turbine better. Increased by 50-70 degrees, the engine thrust reached 9.5 tons (94KN), the thrust-to-weight ratio was 8.6, the overhaul interval exceeded 1,000 hours, and the total life span exceeded 3,000 hours. The third and fourth steps were completed simultaneously by Li Yang and Klimov. The RD-33 has been improved to this step and has been completely new. The Russian model is RD-33MKN, equipped with Mig-35, and the Chinese model is WS-13E. Equipped with FC-1 and FC-31, WS-13E has successfully made its first flight with FC-31 demonstrator on July 1, 2016. Perhaps because of the use of a lot of the original WS-12 technology, perhaps because of his unwillingness to WS-12's untimely death, Li Yang insisted on naming WS-13 "Tianshan 21", especially after the word Tianshan. 21. This is the reverse of the original Tianshan WS-12 designation, which implies that this is a "reflexive battle". In Li Yang's eyes, this may also be due to the anger of the military abandoning Tianshan. Later, he became the deputy commander of the Air Force. Lieutenant General Ma Xiaotian directly intervened before changing the name of WS-13 to "Taishan".

If this is a credible source, then it seems that RD-93 MA & WS-13E have a lot in common & may be interchangeable. A few months ago I disclosed that a trusted source told me (in 2017) that JF-17 Block-III would likely use WS-13. I was skeptical then & now, but it may transpire that the gentleman was correct. I am still trying to keep an open mind about this.
Was ws-13 displayed at recent Chinese air show ??
 
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1636461898640.png



JF-17 Thunder Armed with CM-400AKG says 'Hello' & wishes best of luck .......
 
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Was ws-13 displayed at recent Chinese air show ??
I have not come across any instance of it being displayed. I just shared some information referencing it to its source, which may not be credible. I would treat it like chatter, not credible information. There may be truth in it. Let us watch J-35 development to see if there is much juice in it.
 
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can you share details whether 94KN is dry or a wet thrust ?
I don't know where else to put this. But since this is about WS-13E & it is the alternative engine for FC-1, if not JF-17, this thread seems somewhat appropriate:


I came across this at SDF & this was shared by @minusone in one of the threads relating to J-35.

Google translate of the appropriate section:

First, Li Yang replaced the four-stage fan of the RD-33 with the three-stage fan of the original WS-12. The new fan shortened the length of the engine by 44 mm, increased the flow rate by 6 kg per second, and increased the maximum thrust to 9.06 tons (88.94KN). Moreover, the weight is lighter, and the new fan also increases the first-level impact resistance by more than ten times, and is more resistant to bird strikes. Here Klimov’s approach is completely different. It adjusts the original four-stage fan of the RD-33 based on optimization. This is the RD-33MK; the second step is to use a brand new jointly developed by Li Yang and Klimov. Low-pressure turbine, the new low-pressure turbine can increase the operating temperature by 70 degrees, and the work efficiency is also higher. Using this turbine can better realize the potential of the new three-stage fan. After the improvement, the maximum thrust is 9.28 tons (91.1KN). Here Klimov also switched to the WS-12 three-stage fan scheme, and the model launched with the new low-pressure turbine is the RD-33MKM; in the third step, Li Yang redesigned the new WS-12 combustion chamber based on the original WS-12 combustion chamber. Combustion chamber, the original RD-33 combustion chamber is too backward, lean fuel and rich combustion until the final efficiency is low, so there will always be thicker black smoke, modified the new combustion chamber WS-13 completely solved this problem, let the gas The distribution is more stable and uniform. The improvement of the combustion chamber can not increase the thrust, but it can greatly reduce fuel consumption and increase the engine life. In the fourth step, Klimov replaces the original directional solidification blades with single crystal turbine blades, which makes the working temperature of the turbine better. Increased by 50-70 degrees, the engine thrust reached 9.5 tons (94KN), the thrust-to-weight ratio was 8.6, the overhaul interval exceeded 1,000 hours, and the total life span exceeded 3,000 hours. The third and fourth steps were completed simultaneously by Li Yang and Klimov. The RD-33 has been improved to this step and has been completely new. The Russian model is RD-33MKN, equipped with Mig-35, and the Chinese model is WS-13E. Equipped with FC-1 and FC-31, WS-13E has successfully made its first flight with FC-31 demonstrator on July 1, 2016. Perhaps because of the use of a lot of the original WS-12 technology, perhaps because of his unwillingness to WS-12's untimely death, Li Yang insisted on naming WS-13 "Tianshan 21", especially after the word Tianshan. 21. This is the reverse of the original Tianshan WS-12 designation, which implies that this is a "reflexive battle". In Li Yang's eyes, this may also be due to the anger of the military abandoning Tianshan. Later, he became the deputy commander of the Air Force. Lieutenant General Ma Xiaotian directly intervened before changing the name of WS-13 to "Taishan".

If this is a credible source, then it seems that RD-93 MA & WS-13E have a lot in common & may be interchangeable. A few months ago I disclosed that a trusted source told me (in 2017) that JF-17 Block-III would likely use WS-13. I was skeptical then & now, but it may transpire that the gentleman was correct. I am still trying to keep an open mind about this.
 
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94 KN is certainly wet, not dry.

I would again like to caution that I can not verify the credibility of the source. Treat it as unverifiable chatter.


That is massive for JF17.. Do we know if Block 3 will have RD93 or WS13?
 
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It's good strategy by China/Pakistan to be showcasing, negotiating the JF-17 Thunder with so many countries at the same time (Malaysia, Argentina, Iraq, Azerbaijan).

This way India will be running around like a headless chicken all over the world and struggling to convince everyone not to buy from Pakistan like it did with Sri Lanka.
 
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It's good strategy by China/Pakistan to be showcasing, negotiating the JF-17 Thunder with so many countries at the same time (Malaysia, Argentina, Iraq, Azerbaijan).

This way India will be running around like a headless chicken all over the world and struggling to convince everyone not to buy from Pakistan like it did with Sri Lanka.

We there any serious LCA negotiations by any country ever ?
 
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I don't know where else to put this. But since this is about WS-13E & it is the alternative engine for FC-1, if not JF-17, this thread seems somewhat appropriate:


I came across this at SDF & this was shared by @minusone in one of the threads relating to J-35.

Google translate of the appropriate section:

First, Li Yang replaced the four-stage fan of the RD-33 with the three-stage fan of the original WS-12. The new fan shortened the length of the engine by 44 mm, increased the flow rate by 6 kg per second, and increased the maximum thrust to 9.06 tons (88.94KN). Moreover, the weight is lighter, and the new fan also increases the first-level impact resistance by more than ten times, and is more resistant to bird strikes. Here Klimov’s approach is completely different. It adjusts the original four-stage fan of the RD-33 based on optimization. This is the RD-33MK; the second step is to use a brand new jointly developed by Li Yang and Klimov. Low-pressure turbine, the new low-pressure turbine can increase the operating temperature by 70 degrees, and the work efficiency is also higher. Using this turbine can better realize the potential of the new three-stage fan. After the improvement, the maximum thrust is 9.28 tons (91.1KN). Here Klimov also switched to the WS-12 three-stage fan scheme, and the model launched with the new low-pressure turbine is the RD-33MKM; in the third step, Li Yang redesigned the new WS-12 combustion chamber based on the original WS-12 combustion chamber. Combustion chamber, the original RD-33 combustion chamber is too backward, lean fuel and rich combustion until the final efficiency is low, so there will always be thicker black smoke, modified the new combustion chamber WS-13 completely solved this problem, let the gas The distribution is more stable and uniform. The improvement of the combustion chamber can not increase the thrust, but it can greatly reduce fuel consumption and increase the engine life. In the fourth step, Klimov replaces the original directional solidification blades with single crystal turbine blades, which makes the working temperature of the turbine better. Increased by 50-70 degrees, the engine thrust reached 9.5 tons (94KN), the thrust-to-weight ratio was 8.6, the overhaul interval exceeded 1,000 hours, and the total life span exceeded 3,000 hours. The third and fourth steps were completed simultaneously by Li Yang and Klimov. The RD-33 has been improved to this step and has been completely new. The Russian model is RD-33MKN, equipped with Mig-35, and the Chinese model is WS-13E. Equipped with FC-1 and FC-31, WS-13E has successfully made its first flight with FC-31 demonstrator on July 1, 2016. Perhaps because of the use of a lot of the original WS-12 technology, perhaps because of his unwillingness to WS-12's untimely death, Li Yang insisted on naming WS-13 "Tianshan 21", especially after the word Tianshan. 21. This is the reverse of the original Tianshan WS-12 designation, which implies that this is a "reflexive battle". In Li Yang's eyes, this may also be due to the anger of the military abandoning Tianshan. Later, he became the deputy commander of the Air Force. Lieutenant General Ma Xiaotian directly intervened before changing the name of WS-13 to "Taishan".

If this is a credible source, then it seems that RD-93 MA & WS-13E have a lot in common & may be interchangeable. A few months ago I disclosed that a trusted source told me (in 2017) that JF-17 Block-III would likely use WS-13. I was skeptical then & now, but it may transpire that the gentleman was correct. I am still trying to keep an open mind about this.
the Jf-17 was designed to be able to take 4 different engine types with some minor changes.
 
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the Jf-17 was designed to be able to take 4 different engine types with some minor changes.
Any engine change would require CoG adjustments, engine compartment changes, & extensive evaluation. But clearly JF-17 is not built around any particular engine as such & should be able to integrate other suitable engines. This is smart play.

This reminds me of my post on SDF from 2010, wherein I pointed out the difference between the engine compartment size & the engine diameter based on this:
 

Attachments

  • JF-17 Engine Dia vs Compartment Size.jpg
    JF-17 Engine Dia vs Compartment Size.jpg
    77.8 KB · Views: 64
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But that image is sooooooooooo old! Wha reposting it now?

Okay...
Edited
Is it only me? ,who is doing this.
What an observation.
Please make an effort to point others in future.
 
Last edited:
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