JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Thorough Pro]

Some people are not only unable to think objectively they also lack the vision to look at the big picture.

Before we derail this further - about 10 years or so before coming to the states I met a man from the US who knew my father in the lobby of the Sheraton Karachi while waiting to meet some investors. My dad just winked at me and then the following snippets happened:
“I am telling you Pakistan is going to be invaded in 3 years .. you guys don’t know anything, Obama told me himself.. I met him last in Washington, he comes to my ranch in Waco and him, bush and I hang out - I told him to not do this it is not worth it as Ill introduce him to Zardari just as I intro’ed Bush to Mush... shauki(shaukat aziz) personally invited me when Bush first came and I was in the delegation - Bush wasn’t giving aid that much but I spoke to him and Cheney, great guy know him from University of Texas( Cheney never went there) , I made a lot of money in oil thanks to him ... he knew my calibre and invited me to Halliburton HQ... “ and this kept on .. the most common theme was if we politely interjected on some common facts his response was “Aap ko kuch nahin pata.. you guys have no idea”

And it kept on ...

But then you have an American president who talks the same way, “of a swamp, terrible situation “ unless he is heard and has millions of votes, so the popularity of such self aggrandizement isn’t limited to PDF.

As for the PAF and leadership - I think better posters have destroyed such narratives with much more thorough and well thought out arguments. The result is exactly what happens to such posters, they start defensive, further boasting their prowess , speaking of unfair treatment and so on.

The PAF is plagued with issues from both external and internal factors , but that doesn’t mean every decision it takes it faulty. It has for the better part taken fairly prudent decision with better than average implementation of it.

Your greatest external threat did not just resort to SSMs without realizing how badly they were outmatched.

As for the block-III, there is a paucity of funds that is hitting the tri-services not just due to the economy but also additional expenses from coronavirus management and impact.

Maybe the aggression was tempered deliberately based upon the hesitation on the civil-military leadership? Not wanting to have the Indians all out in a save-face operation? Because that is something they will sell their keyster for.

 

[graphican]

Hi MK, i remember once Imran Khan said on TV interview (don't know if it was India or Pakistan) before elections that if he becomes PM, hell issue orders in all future wars of Pakistan.
If i find it on web, i'll post that on neutral forum.

Pakistan's response to Indian aggression was pre-decided. When Gen. Asif said that the decision has been made and India should now wait, I'm sure in the same session with Imran Khan, they would've discussed India's possible responses after Pakistan attacked back. Orders to engage the enemy must have cleared and there - with the only decision which the commander had to make would be now is the time to execute plan B.

 

[The Eagle]

Love to see you out of argument….

First of all, avoid using Proxy/VPN or false flag of your current location. That is a standard for everyone.

Secondly, if you think that an alleged rating was unjust, create a thread in GHQ Section or report the relevant post with detailed comments for a review which will be dealt accordingly but a mudslinging contest or making it personal will not help at all. Lest not derail topics like this.

Regards,

 

[BATMAN]

First of all, avoid using Proxy/VPN or false flag of your current location. That is a standard for everyone.

Secondly, if you think that an alleged rating was unjust, create a thread in GHQ Section or report the relevant post with detailed comments for a review which will be dealt accordingly but a mudslinging contest or making it personal will not help at all. Lest not derail topics like this.

Regards,

First of all explain basis of your allegation of using proxy and VPN, and why is it important for you to know my exact location?
I have been attacked by terrorist during rule of Asif Ali Zardari, today same mafia is in power. I'm naturally better off, when IRGC and allies do not know my exact location.

On reporting, I have had history of reporting much worst abusive language, which is there for all world to see and make reference to it.

 

[The Eagle]

First of all explain basis of your allegation of using proxy and VPN, and why is it important for you to know my exact location?

For transparency and to make sure that someone is not pretending to be a Pakistani, American etc. True location is the rule on the Forum, you should know and everyone follows the same. There's no importance of your location to me but this is a rule for the Forum users which includes me as well. For the allegation part, just corrected your location flag to Switzerland which you had selected as Pakistan previously.

I have been attacked by terrorist during rule of Asif Ali Zardari, today same mafia is in power. I'm naturally better off, when IRGC and allies do not know my exact location.

Wish you all the safety & long life. I don't think that anyone in the right mind can ever allege about the Forum rule has to do anything with any terrorist. Imagining as such might harm your mental peace.

On reporting, I have had history of reporting much worst abusive language, which is there for all world to see and make reference to it.

You are still not doing the right thing to resolve the matter so I will suggest again to do it properly instead of derailing a topic.

 

[BATMAN]

For transparency and to make sure that someone is not pretending to be a Pakistani, American etc.

How is location confirming any one's nationality or heritage?

You are still not doing the right thing to resolve the matter so I will suggest again to do it properly instead of derailing a topic.

You see the remarks above and you want me to report it at so called GHQ... this is the right way to have them addressed right?
I have an open thread on GHQ for biased moderation, have you ever looked there?

 

[The Eagle]

How is location confirming any one's nationality or heritage?

It is confirming the transparency so other users can see it. No one is interested in heritage here neither the nationality but words speaks accordingly. A flag of current location helps in regard to filter so that people aren't pretending to be someone where they are not.

 

[BATMAN]

It is confirming the transparency so other users can see it. No one is interested in heritage here neither the nationality but words speaks accordingly. A flag of current location helps in regard to filter so that people aren't pretending to be someone where they are not.

Again, how is it location helps determine people pretending to be someone they are not? Tomorrow i'll be in Pakistan, would you correct my location flag again?

 

[The Eagle]

Again, how is it location helps determine people pretending to be someone they are not? Tomorrow i'll be in Pakistan, would you correct my location flag again?

A forum policy in short words that pretty much helps determine for other users and not for the Forum alone. I think you are reading it wrongly.

Need to thread ban you for repeated derailment. User needs to share correct flag of current location so you will have to change to avoid the warning point accordingly. For further clarifications, as advised before, create thread in GHQ section.

Regards,

 

[graphican]

That's only you.. this is what your are cooking on your own. Otherwise, if ''decision has been made and India should now wait'' meant what you are conocating, than explain the late request, to pilot of mirage who fired Takbir glide bomb.
infact i see it more like, when Imran Khan was informed that PAF has fired Takbir at the hideout of Indian military Generals, Imran Khan got angry for allowing so without his supreme permission, which in turn comes from supreme leader. Perhaps he threated to sack responsible for potential Indian loss,... thereof order sequence of Takbir course correction initiated.
We can make many such arguments, until the release of Abhinandan but it's useless. We shall hang on to what is clearly stated and nothing more is more authentic than statements of Air Chief, in presence of locals and foreigners, where he as well stated... he was not given the permission to shoot Indian jets in middle of war and next time it would be difficult to tame PAF pilots on situations and orders like this.. hopefully Imran Khan has already started to promote and appoint obedients at right places.

What is here to concoct or interpolate? Gen Ghafoor a day earlier confirmed after meeting PM that there will be a response. Here is the video saying "There will be a response" and a message for Nation to "get ready for any eventuality".

Second, Gen. Bipin Rawat was not hiding in a hideout. What was he hiding from? Wasn't it a surprise attack with India took off-guard? Bipin happened to be in their Brigade Headquarter which was a previously selected target. Infect he was told to move in time but bombs landed where they were meant to land, near targets instead of on targets.

There was no course correction after launching the bombs. We've seen target selection video where Indian ammunition depot was locked, then unlocked and bombs were targetted to land on the side. PAF didn't intend to hit any target but wanted to convey India that we could if we wanted, be warned. That is how we controlled escalation leader which Gen. Asif said we will control despite the action.

What PAF air chief is saying is what entire Pakistan would say that our hands were tied or we weren't allowed otherwise we must have shot tens of Indian jets. Be warned, next time punishment will be harder. If PAF Chief had acted without consent from PM, he must have ben sacked by now for breaching PM's trust. Its been 2 years, no action means he didn't do anything he wasn't expected to do.

 

[araz]

Without going into the specifics of whose legs were rubbery on that day, it can be said that a more aggressive commander on a longer leash by his leadership-both political as well as service- could have slaughtered the opposition.
We had a local superiority in numbers in the sky, the CAP birds had turned tail after getting one of their pals shot down and the jamming was drowning out the comms.
The door had had been knocked down and the stable was wide open.
The boys could have made a dash for the enemy radar bird, a SEAD effort could have targeted the hi-level radar at Natha Top and other similar sensors near Barnala and Amritsar. Subsequently the sub could have been easily targeted. You see the opportunities were endless. But we were not committed to a wider operation with further ramifications. So at the end it was termed a measured response. BTW, I saw the LY-80 battery deployed in the sports ground right next to my residence at Malir next day. We were kinda ready for the missile/air raids.

With good reason as well. A stern response was required and no one should be in any doubt that it was given. A message was meant to be conveyed and it was conveyed in loud and uncertain terms. A corner stone of defence is to give a response which stings the enemy so they do not make any further advances . However overdo it and you will force the enemy into responding. A response from the enemy would have caused escalation up a ladder of no return. This would have been disastrous both for Pakistan as well as India, not forgetting the world. the subtleness with which this tight slap was administered was what made the whole episode so sublime and classy, You won on so many fronts and the Indians lost credibility world wide. You carry on with the steps being suggested by the most arduous fans of the offensive not realizing the dire straits of your finances, your enemies and the excuses you would have given them to malign them, the change in international stance labelling you as a terrorist nation and consequent sanctions, would have shifted the sublime into ridiculous. However we are after all dealing with the what if. The fact remains that the Pak forces and polity in a unified response chose limits which it set itself very wisely. It got the results it desired without allowing the enemy to escalate.
So in my view the response was adequate, timely and conducted with such grace that it forced the Indian polity to return home rubbing their face in dirt with no other option and nothing to winge about.
A

 

[araz]

Some people are not only unable to think objectively they also lack the vision to look at the big picture.

Hazrat e Halwa Puri at his best. You have quoted a really good post

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Care to explain what's so special about this Image?

Nothing special my friend and @m52k85 . Just a personal collection of all JF-17 Thunders photographed with their full serial numbers.

Previously, all I could find of this particular aircraft was a partial serial number from a poor quality screen grab.

Next one I am now waiting for is ??-246.

 

[HRK]

??-246.

its 17-246, serial # in both pic appear partially

 

[GriffinsRule]

Still no pictures of 17-249 or 17-250