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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

For Block 1 there was substance regarding integration of SD10 since block 1 serves more of a introducer and quick replacement of similar aircraft such as A5 so primary role was A2G with limited capabilities in A2A WVR missiles

JF-17-A5.jpg


It doesnt need at that time BVR since the integration was planned for block 2 and upgradation of all block 1 to block 2 and fire BVR were planned accordingly .Second in line was F7P squadron . Kindly note that JF17 was inducted in haste to over come depleting strength and it was always planned to upgrade all with SD10 in later stage. the purchase of SD10 is evidence that JF17 will have BVR capability , cant comment on current status
 
Hi,

Many a serving officers are fed up with some of the deceits of the Paf---. Many want to speak up and talk about the lies that have been told to the public.

Since 9/11---the history of the Paf is full of bigger lies than ever regarding efforts of procuring the right aircraft---.
No. Put two fighter jocks in a room and you’ll get four opinions.

Every guy in the AF has grand ideas about what the best platform is and why we can get it and cheap. Does not make him right.

You get shouted down, less because of malevolence and more because you display a patronising and condescending attitude. Some of your arguments are accurate. Some are crap. Most are debatable. Like everyone else. Debate with people. Don’t get a persecution complex. People who disagree with you are not stupid or “kids”, they have a different view. Challenge it rationally.
 
This is a great argument, again, but the guy wasn't arguing a point, he was trying to establish a fact.

He said the JF-17 was not FOC as a matter of fact. If it had been a "I don't think the PAF operationalized SD-10 with the JF-17 because X,Y and Z" - then completely fair. Great.

However, when you have footage of the SD-10 apparently being used operationally with the JF-17 and then claiming it is non-operational as a matter of fact, you're going to have to show proof. If you can't, then you should be wise enough to preface what can only be accepted as an opinion as just that, an opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as it's well reasoned. But it shouldn't be conflated as fact.

Moreover, one shouldn't tilt themselves to a viewpoint or perspective simply because it agrees with their prior notions - that's confirmation bias (an incredibly common intellectual disease in the Subcontinent, sadly).

Imagine if someone came here also claiming to be a serving PAF guy and started saying, "the JF-17 HMD/S has been secured. PAF is doing an amazing job..." I'm sure you'd hate it if PAF fanbois took that guy as gospel. Well, it works the other way around as well, i.e. with people skeptical of the PAF embracing other skeptics because he or she is skeptic. The only arbiter in this case is fact, and fact requires proof.

Proof of PL-12 AKA SD-10 is I am based in KHI for now and seen JFT flying above my head doing CAP and the often happens when I visit a friend at Nazimabad and at Johar because these 2 areas comes in the line of flight so it usually carries 2 PL5-E rounds on the tips and 2 SD-10s (Probably A series) under wing pylon.
Any one who lives near Goli Mar Chowrangi Nazimabad, we urge you to go to the roof of either Gohar tower or adjacent one which ever is higher and take a few pictures while these are performing CAP sorties and that happens a lot every day :).
 
Jf 17 aviation city project azm ( first leading to other 2) are decisons of historic proportions and will reverbirate through history for decades even centuries to come...
Its idiotic to concentrate on one aspect and ignore the full impact
 
Proof of PL-12 AKA SD-10 is I am based in KHI for now and seen JFT flying above my head doing CAP and the often happens when I visit a friend at Nazimabad and at Johar because these 2 areas comes in the line of flight so it usually carries 2 PL5-E rounds on the tips and 2 SD-10s (Probably A series) under wing pylon.
Any one who lives near Goli Mar Chowrangi Nazimabad, we urge you to go to the roof of either Gohar tower or adjacent one which ever is higher and take a few pictures while these are performing CAP sorties and that happens a lot every day :).
PAF only ordered the A versions with enhanced range, not the baseline version.
That's their standard load out these days, including a centerline fuel tank. And you are spot on about areas :) usual way points for thunders/Mira stationed at Masroor.

I saw them flying with c802AKs at least twice last year. They don't carry them too often though.
 
Regarding Nigerian JF-17 purchase:

There are only a few acquisitions in the Air Force’s proposed 2018 budget including N6.8 billion ($18.7 million) for the ongoing procurement of two AW109 Power helicopters and N13 billion ($35 million) as part payment for the procurement of three JF-17 Thunder jets from Pakistan. The 2018 budget also proposes N1.3 billion ($3.5 million) for maintenance for two Alpha Jets and N2 billion ($5.5 million) for C-130 maintenance.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...defence-budget&catid=54:Governance&Itemid=118
 
Hi,

Many a serving officers are fed up with some of the deceits of the Paf---. Many want to speak up and talk about the lies that have been told to the public.

Since 9/11---the history of the Paf is full of bigger lies than ever regarding efforts of procuring the right aircraft---.

The thing about this board is---it cannot take anything negative about the program---. Everything has to be right and perfect to satisfy young pakistani kids---.

Otherwise---you face their wrath---.

I have cutback on saying anything negative about the JF17---because it has led to nowhere---so what difference does it make if I praise the aircraft or call it below par---.

This is not a whistle blower forum. Only you are fed up with PAF, and say whatever comes to your mind.
 
Hi,

You should not get upset at posters whose posts you do not agree with---.

You have to learn to listen to what the poster is saying---and not what you want to hear---.

Getting mad at the messenger is not a good thing---.



Hi,

Don't go away---just take the heat and enjoy your stay---.

Most of these pakistani 'jingos' don't have any clue what you commented about the SPADA.

There is no substitute over a tested and proven system.
Hi, sir
Back here. For a while I get too busy as I'm working on a book project in addition to attending to routine, you know.
Talking of Spada 2000, a number of air defense guys had recommended against it in their study while the process was underway.
Regarding JFT, I never really claimed authority on anything or presented my opinion as facts. All there was required was a debate.
 
Always there are issues with a system despite how great its concept, design or production. We're working toward that. That's the good thing. May happen a day from now, you see.
Without claiming any authority or exclusive insider info, I must say that defense watchers do it all the time across the world. By certain parameters. For JFT-SINO-SLAMMER!
1-Origins of a system( SD-10 traces its origins to AGAT/ Vympel)
2-Existing know-how status of maker( China still lags behind in critical technologies i.e Fighter engines, seeker designs etc)
3-Time frame (Time to develop and mature vs counterparts)
4-Known technical details(Open source info looks ok for missile)
5-Marketing Info( good enough)
6-Comparison with competitors( SD-10 vs AIM-120, Adder)
7-Trials( technical as well operational. No details here)
8-Actual combat( Nil for SD-10)
9-Status in home service( JFT not in PLAAF, nor KLJ-7, though the latter is derived from J-10 radar)
From above, anyone can deduce his/her own opinions about the system. I'm talking about the JFT-SD-10 system here. Sino-Slammer may or may not be working wonders an Chinese Flanker-clones, Vanguards etc. But remember, no JFT in home service, so no that level of commitment probably.
When all such things don't add up, rooms exists for debate. Defense talkers still discuss the pitfalls about AMRAAM. If anyone cares , it's mostly about operational/usage rather than technical details which are very few.
Let's say if a BVR's IMU goes astray in flight, or the weapon's good for MADDOG shootout or it just is okay till HUSKY but then LOOSE LOOSE LOOSE flashes and grimaces on your HUD! What would happen then?

Here's an article copied for info. Not everything rosy on the other side too, mates!

Russia’s Most Feared Air-to-Air Missile Is Actually Kind of a Dud

The Russians may never have acquired production-model R-77s
by TOM COOPER

Russia’s R-77 active-radar-homing air-to-air missile — NATO designation AA-12 — is widely considered to be equivalent to the American AIM-120 AMRAAM.

But in fact, the R-77 isn’t nearly as successful as the AIM-120. It may never have formally entered service with the Russian air force at all. In the best case, the number of operational, combat-ready rounds in the Russian arsenal can be counted on the fingers of two hands.


1*wp8CF8ORwnI6ApGjUgfRqA.png

What used to be the Vympel Design Bureau — now known as the KTRV Corporation — started the work on the K-77, as it was then designated, in 1982, only for the Kremlin to more or less cancel the weapon five years later, over issues related to the 9B-1348 seeker head.

A new project, the K-77M or Izdeliye-170, replaced the K-77 effort. The K-77M featured the improved 9B-1348M1 seeker head. Development of the K-77M halted between 1989 and 1991 owing to funding shortages related to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The Artem company in Ukraine manufactured most of the K-77M’s parts. Vympel had produced only around 200 pre-series rounds by the time the USSR dissolved. The Russians tested the missiles at the Akhtubinsk Test Center but never distributed any to operational squadrons.

Financing by potential export customers enabled some work to continue and thus the Izdeliye-190 — a.k.a. the RVV-AE — came into being. Manufactured in Russia and equipped with the Agat 9B-1348E seeker head, the RVV-AE was acquired by Algeria, China, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Sudan, Syria, Uganda and Venezuela.

It’s not clear whether the Russian air force actually bought any. The same can be said for an entire host of variants reported as “undergoing development” — ranging from the passive-homing R-77P to the infrared-homing R-77T to the ramjet-powered R-77-PD and the K-77M variant supposedly under development for Russia’s T-50 stealth fighter.

Indeed, the main variant the Russian air force wanted — the Izdeliye-170-1 or R-77-1, is still not in service. Reportedly fitted with a streamlined nose covering the new 9B-1248 or Izdeliye-50-1 active radar seeker head, plus new fin fittings, it was test-fired from a Sukhoi Su-27SM-3 at Akhtubinsk in September 2010.
Time and again, photographs of various Russian air force aircraft depict them with AKU-170 launch rails for R-77s. However, the missiles themselves are strangely absent.

In the last six years, the Russian defense ministry has made only one official statement related to the R-77. On Aug. 26, 2015, the ministry announced a potentially $200-million tender for R-77-1 missiles.

Notable is that the statement in question is not an order, as such. It’s a call for companies interested in manufacturing the missiles to submit proposals. The outcome of this tender was never officially announced and thus it remains unclear whether series production has begun and if any have R-77–1 missiles have entered Russian service as of late 2016.


1*vh1eCwHZ_nwDmFAMEVUwBg.jpeg

This is the principal reason why the Russian Su-30SMs and Su-34s that arrived in Syria in September 2015 were still armed with old R-27 — NATO code name AA-10 Alamo — and R-73/AA-11 Archer air-to-air missiles.

Then on Nov. 24, 2015, Turkish air force F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24 that strayed into Turkish air space. A batch of R-77s promptly appear at Hmemmem air base, the main Russian installation in Syria. Since at least January 2016, Russian Su-30SMs and Su-35s have carried two R-77s on missions over Syria.

However, because Moscow never officially announced the results of the tender from August 2015, and because there is no evidence of series production of the Izdeliye-170-1, the origin of missiles in question remains opaque.

They might be from the original stock of Izdeliye-170s manufactured in Ukraine. They could be Izdeliye-190s manufactured in Russia for export. They could even be Syrian Izdeliye-190s that the Russians borrowed.
 
Regarding JFT, I never really claimed authority on anything or presented my opinion as facts. All there was required was a debate.

You are an embarrassment as a liar too..

This is what you wrote in the your first post on this thread:

No SD-10 capability so far. Reasons I wouldn't comment for security implications. Yet Thunders tearing the skies with flying colors day and night since a full decade! As the gonzo talk goes here: Abhi tak hamarey hawabaaz sirf ghantay chaap rahay hain!

And here as well:

Well, hasty patchwork has been done in KLJ v2, full results awaited. KLJ-AESA still a year away, or more. KLJ-7v1 no meaningful capability to support SD-10, though it constitutes bulk of our Thunder force. Eventually, it would come through, Insha Allah. I meant to state the present: here and now. What if something flares up now?

How the bloody hell these are not a fact and just a pointers to start a debate?

Also I feel that you are either a false flagger or just some kid (may be a kiddish old man) trying to have some fun until guys here took you to the task. Here is why, right in the second mentioned post you wrote afterwards:

As of videos, recent Astra firing from a Sukhoi is a clear video showing a very clean motor ignition and flawless separation. Very neat exhaust plume and low smoke content. It shows at least *** end of this weapon is good. By no means Astra-Sukhoi combo assumed fit for op duty.

1. This is actually second nature to most Indian trolls here I have observed (even some Pakistanis as well).. jealousy. They do not like something in our side, they will promptly mention something in their arsenal, even if it is still shit still in research stage or yet to be deployed.

2. What? 'clean motor ignition'..'flawless separation'. Are you serious.. we are not doing first god damned tests on SD-10 to be just sure that it can be safely jettisoned. That is what Indian are still doing even on Brahmos.

'Very neat exhaust plume and low smoke content'..

Are you out of you mind. Either you are some low life Indian troll who is looking for 'anything' to pass as success and have some thing to console his jealousy and/or ego

(not)gentleman, rocket motors (even two staged) on even BVR ranged AAMs burn out fast in matter of few seconds. If that AAM is even smoking like a godzilla, chances are kaput that target will ever be able to see it with eyeballs mk1.

Also you may not yet know this, but at high and very high altitude (where these missiles are usually fired from) you do not need any 'plume' or 'smoke' to see a missile coming. At such high speeds they produce a huge and visible vapor trail. Even jets do that as well, so large that you can see the trail way earlier than seeing what is actually at the head of it.

This basically shows that you know no such sh$$
 
Hi, sir
Back here. For a while I get too busy as I'm working on a book project in addition to attending to routine, you know.
Talking of Spada 2000, a number of air defense guys had recommended against it in their study while the process was underway.
Regarding JFT, I never really claimed authority on anything or presented my opinion as facts. All there was required was a debate.

Hi,

You ought to understand that debate cannot happen with fanboys---.

Spada 2000's shortcomings are well known. It was an inferior system right from day one.

Going for the JF17 by themseleves for the pakistanis was always a poor choice---.

It meant that all the failures & hardships were their's to own and not much room to move around---.
 
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