JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Arsalan]

I am very lenient as long as news is interesting. And the most interesting part is that PAC has officially started work on Block 3. A similar announcement was made about Version B in April 2016 and first flight was April 2017. Also, it means there is some degree of parallelism in the two projects, which mean Block 3 could be considerably different from Version B. Also, remember that announcement of AvDI was made in the MoDP Year Book 2015-16. I wouldn't be surprised if Block 3 becomes the phase where Pakistani design experts perform all steps from design to production.

All of this hinges on the correctness of the news, background video notwithstanding.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

What i am interested in right now is not the block 3 to be honest. I am more looking forward for the future, times AFTER Blk-3. If we do go forward with may be a slightly bigger/heavier with increase load and range aircraft in shape of Blk-4! There are no current indications of any such project but i simply do not see numbers adding up without such a project/future. The program should go beyond Blk-3 and B model. It should do to Blk-4 and then 5 AT LEAST. Currently, all my hopes and focus and prayers are for that.

 

[Signalian]

Only if replacements arrive from China. In any major all out war, our lack of strategic depth will rear its ugly head, unfortunately.

There will be extra planes per squadron

 

[CriticalThought]

There will be extra planes per squadron

Hmmmmm. That's deep. And I guess you wouldn't reveal your sources? I'll keep this in the back of my mind but I wouldn't base my conclusions on this piece of information. But thanks for the hint!

What i am interested in right now is not the block 3 to be honest. I am more looking forward for the future, times AFTER Blk-3. If we do go forward with may be a slightly bigger/heavier with increase load and range aircraft in shape of Blk-4! There are no current indications of any such project but i simply do not see numbers adding up without such a project/future. The program should go beyond Blk-3 and B model. It should do to Blk-4 and then 5 AT LEAST. Currently, all my hopes and focus and prayers are for that.

For me, it's one step at a time. Curiosity about short term projects will be satisfied soon. So I avoid burning in long term curiosity But yeah, Block 4/5 is a very interesting subject. I think details of Block 3 started leaking in 2015, just around the time when Block 2 was going into production. So it makes sense that we will start hearing more on the topic of Block 4 just around the time when Block 3 is about to start production. If my previous analysis is correct, then second half of 2018 seems a suitable timeframe, but don't hold me to it!

 

[Arsalan]

There will be extra planes per squadron

Hmmmmm. That's deep. And I guess you wouldn't reveal your sources? I'll keep this in the back of my mind but I wouldn't base my conclusions on this piece of information. But thanks for the hint!

Since i am in a wishful mood right now, would like:

1. Blk-I upgraded to Blk-II (quite realistic to be honest)
2. The number squadrons from these planes dropped to 4 with each Squadron having 22-23 planes.
   
3. Going forward, the Blk-III and beyond to be inducted in 22-23 plane squadrons.
4. Existing F-16 squadrons also restructured with some new planes acquired of number of squadrons reduced so it is also a 22-23 plane per squadron.

AND OF-COURSE THE PROJECT TO RUN BEYOND BLOCK 3

Hmmmmm. That's deep. And I guess you wouldn't reveal your sources? I'll keep this in the back of my mind but I wouldn't base my conclusions on this piece of information. But thanks for the hint!



For me, it's one step at a time. Curiosity about short term projects will be satisfied soon. So I avoid burning in long term curiosity But yeah, Block 4/5 is a very interesting subject. I think details of Block 3 started leaking in 2015, just around the time when Block 2 was going into production. So it makes sense that we will start hearing more on the topic of Block 4 just around the time when Block 3 is about to start production. If my previous analysis is correct, then second half of 2018 seems a suitable timeframe, but don't hold me to it!

Not expecting much about Beyond Blk-III talks before 2018/19 anyway.

 

[CriticalThought]

Since i am in a wishful mood right now, would like:

1. Blk-I upgraded to Blk-II (quite realistic to be honest)
2. The number squadrons from these planes dropped to 4 with each Squadron having 22-23 planes.
   
3. Going forward, the Blk-III and beyond to be inducted in 22-23 plane squadrons.
4. Existing F-16 squadrons also restructured with some new planes acquired of number of squadrons reduced so it is also a 22-23 plane per squadron.

AND OF-COURSE THE PROJECT TO RUN BEYOND BLOCK 3

Not expecting much about Beyond Blk-III talks before 2018/19 anyway.

In order for it to be effective in subverting Indian calculations, the increase in aircraft strength would have to be kept quiet.

Block 4+ makes logical sense. No country leaps into the production of fifth generation aircraft head first, without a certain level of maturity. Take Turkey's example. Their aviation industry is already developing advanced sensors/missiles for F-35 and these will flow seamlessly into their NG aircraft. Basically, it is true to say they are working on fifth generation technologies today.

For PAF to move in that direction, the following is a MUST at minimum:

1. Manufacturing technologies. One of the most important materials for fifth gen aircrafts is titanium and its alloys. This metal needs specialized machines for machining the parts precisely. Then, JF-17 is semi-monocoque which increases the number of joints. These joints contribute to the radar signature. For a fifth gen fighter, they would need to create monocoque structures that are joined through internal rivets/bolts and the cracks filled with stealth coatings. (DISCLAIMER: The previous was my own opinion formed by reading articles all over the internet. It could be completely wrong) This is such a major jump in production technology, that they should be looking today into acquiring this production infrastructure. Also, making the raw materials available.

2. Electronics and electro/optical sensors. Our fabrication industry is non-existent. A fabrication plant is a hundreds of millions of dollars worth of investment. These electronics must be ruggedized to handle high Gs and be able to operate in high EM environments.

3. Stealth coatings. These are a different beast altogether.

Finally, interestingly enough, in the televised Sep 7 interview in PAC, they explicitly said they are looking into the possibility that in 10-15 years from now, there won't be any pilots in these planes. So that gives us a timeline, and the possibility that drones shall be the mainstay of the airforce. Pair this knowledge with the hints on 'space' that ACM has been dropping in his interviews. And so, we may actually see PAC moving towards placing navigation satellites in space and drones. The space missions would align perfectly with our ICBM efforts as well.

 

[his5850]

Pakistan Cancel the Deal Pakistan will not Sell JF 17 Thunder Aircraft to Myanmar Burma Really ???

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan Cancel the Deal Pakistan will not Sell JF 17 Thunder Aircraft to Myanmar Burma Really ???

Please stop watching and believing youtube videos- its a lifestyle advice that will make you smarter and less prone to misinformation

 

[his5850]

Please stop watching and believing youtube videos- its a lifestyle advice that will make you smarter and less prone to misinformation

PLZ watch the video it don't say Pakistan cancel the deal of JF-17

 

[SQ8]

PLZ watch the video it don't say Pakistan cancel the deal of JF-17

I do not watch baseless youtube videos designed to entrap stupid people to generate views and/or advertizment revenue.

 

[CriticalThought]

PLZ watch the video it don't say Pakistan cancel the deal of JF-17

He's telling you NOT to watch them, PERIOD.

 

[Code_Geass]

Please stop watching and believing youtube videos- its a lifestyle advice that will make you smarter and less prone to misinformation

and do not believe whatever is in the facebook pages and certainly do not use that as your source.

 

[his5850]

He said sale of JF-17 will increase our influence in burma Like US did with F-16 so that's why canceling the deal is a bad idea There is also one technical point by the way expressing your opinion isn't bad i just said hear what he have to say if u think it is wrong then don't listen what is the harm in that

 

[araz]

I am very lenient as long as news is interesting. And the most interesting part is that PAC has officially started work on Block 3. A similar announcement was made about Version B in April 2016 and first flight was April 2017. Also, it means there is some degree of parallelism in the two projects, which mean Block 3 could be considerably different from Version B. Also, remember that announcement of AvDI was made in the MoDP Year Book 2015-16. I wouldn't be surprised if Block 3 becomes the phase where Pakistani design experts perform all steps from design to production.

All of this hinges on the correctness of the news, background video notwithstanding.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

My own reading in the matter is that you dont fix what is broken especially in fighter planes. Major Changes in shape will delay induction and with fleetcobsolescence approaching will not be a good idea.
JFT is already a small platform with low RCS and that will always be affected by it carrying weapons on external hardpoints. One can think along the lines of changes like silent eagle but how feasible that would be is a difficult call.
Personally I dont see many changes in the aircraft shape and most of the changes will be internal and external changes to incorporate those internal changes. For instance larger nose cone addition of a chin mounted hardpoint etc.
Major changes if at all will occur in 2022-25 block 4/5 and then again if it is deemed essential. It must be said that the JFT is our workhorse and we need to be pragmatic in what we can and can not do.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

My own reading in the matter is that you dont fix what is broken especially in fighter planes. Major Changes in shape will delay induction and with fleetcobsolescence approaching will not be a good idea.
JFT is already a small platform with low RCS and that will always be affected by it carrying weapons on external hardpoints. One can think along the lines of changes like silent eagle but how feasible that would be is a difficult call.
Personally I dont see many changes in the aircraft shape and most of the changes will be internal and external changes to incorporate those internal changes. For instance larger nose cone addition of a chin mounted hardpoint etc.
Major changes if at all will occur in 2022-25 block 4/5 and then again if it is deemed essential. It must be said that the JFT is our workhorse and we need to be pragmatic in what we can and can not do.
A

Many thanks for sharing the insights, Sir. My wish is for Block 4/5 to be a gradual build up towards the next gen fighter. 2022-25 is enough time for us to mature some parts of 5th gen design such as radar reflective surfaces, electronics etc. In my mind, the Rafale threat almost ensures that stealth aspects and EW will be the major areas in Block 4/5.

 

[araz]

Many thanks for sharing the insights, Sir. My wish is for Block 4/5 to be a gradual build up towards the next gen fighter. 2022-25 is enough time for us to mature some parts of 5th gen design such as radar reflective surfaces, electronics etc. In my mind, the Rafale threat almost ensures that stealth aspects and EW will be the major areas in Block 4/5.

Depends on the methodology of acquisition of knowledge base. If it is going to be sharing of knowledge via partnerships then possibly. If it is going to be via establishing of an R&D setup then there isn't enough time. However the former seems the more logical route rather than investing money to reinvent the wheel. The crunch question is what is done to enhance the knowledge that is acquired. We have to have the capability of acquiring skills and then advancing them. What are the limitations of the methodology is beyond my knowledge to answer.
A