JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[AbuzarIlyas]

CAS, DG Kamra and Base Commander Masroor's interviews if read and listened with ample attention can give us many clues about Thunder's role in Naval operations. Pakistani Armed Forces always plan on the basis of requirements. There is no need to spend more for little requirements according to them. Base Commander Masroor said that PAF achieved with Thunders what was impossible with Mirages in North Arabian Sea... Now we can cover whole North Arabian Sea with our Thunders and their standoff weapons which is a perfect space to give a buffer zone to Pakistan Navy.

Few members were inquiring about Thunder's Naval role as it is a short legged aircraft according to them but it should be noted here that it is fulfilling our requirements. No. 2 Minhas is already equipped and those Thunders can easily fly 1 thousand kilometers from shore. Pictures are also available in which we can speculate Thunders with fuel tank, anti-ship missiles and air-to-air missiles. PAF gems are practicing on them day and night. Lets see what will be the outcome in the testing times.

 

[AFlover]

Not just good work but awesome work Alhamdulillah.

I can feel the change in engine now in block3 with the way u showed ur confidence ALHAMDOLILLAH
If it can cover up the short fall in weapon carriage by increasing the HP to at least 11 then yes there is no need of J10C and it will be possible only if the whole design is changed or at enlarged wingspan giving enough margin to attach more HP or may be dual rack will work
Can u plz shed some light on this also?

 

[CriticalThought]

I can feel the change in engine now in block3 with the way u showed ur confidence ALHAMDOLILLAH
If it can cover up the short fall in weapon carriage by increasing the HP to at least 11 then yes there is no need of J10C and it will be possible only if the whole design is changed or at enlarged wingspan giving enough margin to attach more HP or may be dual rack will work
Can u plz shed some light on this also?

First you have to show why "at least 11 hard points" are needed?

 

[AFlover]

First you have to show why "at least 11 hard points" are needed?

Very valid question
If u remember my first post Senior member TaimiKhan highlighted the difference between J10 11HP and JF17
with chin mounted additional HP to make it 9 and I said y shouldn't we go J10C
So I asked for 11 HP simply to deny J10C on capabilities base if thunder also have same number HP, better avionics, better engine, HMD and possible CFT,AESA then it's really a gem and we can openly say no need for block52 or J10C
But in reality more HP means more BVR/WVR carriage to deal with Rafale and SU30MK and perhaps less sorties needed to deal with income intruders

 

[CriticalThought]

Very valid question
If u remember my first post Senior member TaimiKhan highlighted the difference between J10 11HP and JF17
with chin mounted additional HP to make it 9 and I said y shouldn't we go J10C
So I asked for 11 HP simply to deny J10C on capabilities base if thunder also have same number HP, better avionics, better engine, HMD and possible CFT,AESA then it's really a gem and we can openly say no need for block52 or J10C
But in reality more HP means more BVR/WVR carriage to deal with Rafale and SU30MK and perhaps less sorties needed to deal with income intruders

Did you care to read my posts in response to that?

 

[khanasifm]

Major gap is engine power and weapon load carrying capacity. More fuel thus longer flight duration. And j10 has 11 hardpoints as per pics available.

Jf17 and J10 can never be at par except for something in avionics.

Fighter classification on weight class comparing 13 ton (jf max now) vs 18 ton Ac, load, range will differ

But cost is also a factor around 28/30 million vs 15-20 million fly away cost and may be less for paf as PAC gets profits back

Jf fulfils 70/80 percent paf current req per chief and perhaps with more with block 3/4 (guessing ) all $$ will go towards it to replace older Platforms in 3-7 years (all mirages and pg)
5 gen is perhaps target for 2030 and beyond for joint effort

Not sure if there is budget for short term induction of anything new like additional f16s

Again guess here

 

[AFlover]

Where did you get the information that 'Block 3 will still be short legged unless it has CFT'? Kindly desist from spreading uncorroborated information.



Unfortunately, it don't work that way. The SU-30 being large and able to carry more payload is a manifestation of the Russian air warfare philosophy. The SU-30 will fire volley of BVRs at a single target with different warheads to maximize the probability of kill. They will engage less targets as a result. If they don't do this and quickly eliminate threats, their large size means they become easy pray. The Thunder is more than capable of taking them on if it follows first shoot first kill philosophy. And that's just one method. The PAF will have its own philosophy which you and me have no idea about. As a moderator you should be the last person lending credence to moronic, dumb ***,and childish views.

Since u discussed the SU's engagement method what if multiple SUs shot at single target togather leaving enough weapons and time to engage other targets?

Did you care to read my posts in response to that?

Yes dear I read it but if u have some free time to explain more
What I understood is that 11 HP may not be a must, there might be a possibility that thunder may have even more than 11HP?

 

[CriticalThought]

Since u discussed the SU's engagement method what if multiple SUs shot at single target togather leaving enough weapons and time to engage other targets?


Yes dear I read it but if u have some free time to explain more
What I understood is that 11 HP may not be a must, there might be a possibility that thunder may have even more than 11HP?

First of all, the movements of SU-30s are easily monitored. The only way a large contingent of SU-30s can cross the border undetected is by subverting our air defence system. If that happens, then you can have 100 J-10s they will all be sitting ducks.

If any large, unusual movements of aircraft are detected, then the armed forces will already go into high alert. The response to such an event isn't necessarily scrambling jets to meet them one on one. The response can be nuclear, missile based, or even preemptive mechanized advance to bring the battle to them. You can open another front so the enemy is compelled to disengage from the saturation attack.

This means, any package IAF sends our way will be quite evenly matched. As a matter of fact, us being defenders, we will always be at sn advantage Insha Allah.

Now stop this BS about 11 hard points etc.

 

[AFlover]

First of all, the movements of SU-30s are easily monitored. The only way a large contingent of SU-30s can cross the border undetected is by subverting our air defence system. If that happens, then you can have 100 J-10s they will all be sitting ducks.

If any large, unusual movements of aircraft are detected, then the armed forces will already go into high alert. The response to such an event isn't necessarily scrambling jets to meet them one on one. The response can be nuclear, missile based, or even preemptive mechanized advance to bring the battle to them. You can open another front so the enemy is compelled to disengage from the saturation attack.

This means, any package IAF sends our way will be quite evenly matched. As a matter of fact, us being defenders, we will always be at sn advantage Insha Allah.

Now stop this BS about 11 hard points etc.

I never disagree with ur openions whatsoever but don't insult others if u think ALLAH has given u some wisdom.
Learn to respect others if u want to be respected.
Debate was based on senior's views that I learnt from this forum. So don't be harsh and insulting wen u engage others on forum

 

[khanasifm]

Here u go another indo pak pissing contest begins, hope not

 

[AFlover]

Here u go another indo pak pudding contest begins

No sir I m done I will not engage in any more post on the forum at least today

 

[CriticalThought]

I never disagree with ur openions whatsoever but don't insult others if u think ALLAH has given u some wisdom.
Learn to respect others if u want to be respected.
Debate was based on senior's views that I learnt from this forum. So don't be harsh and insulting wen u engage others on forum

Said senior regularly engages in disparaging PAF, it's leadership, and has gone to the extent of calling officers of good standing as traitors. These are not trivial allegations. That man holds no respect in my eyes. You will do good to stop paying attention to his views. People to follow on this forum are the likes of @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @gambit @messiach @The SC I hope this will help you in the future.

 

[MastanKhan]

Very valid question
If u remember my first post Senior member TaimiKhan highlighted the difference between J10 11HP and JF17
with chin mounted additional HP to make it 9 and I said y shouldn't we go J10C
So I asked for 11 HP simply to deny J10C on capabilities base if thunder also have same number HP, better avionics, better engine, HMD and possible CFT,AESA then it's really a gem and we can openly say no need for block52 or J10C
But in reality more HP means more BVR/WVR carriage to deal with Rafale and SU30MK and perhaps less sorties needed to deal with income intruders

Hi,

For an aircraft the size of the JF17---7 hard points is an excellent number based on its utility for what it was designed---.

In the U S 99% of the motorcycles are ridden by the driver---and once in a while a girl in the back seat---.

An average freeway motorcycle would be ranging 800cc and upwards---more like 1000cc and upwards.

In pakistan---an average motorcycle is 70cc in power---and an average motorcycle carries 3 people on it---.

So---then if you look at it thru a different prism---hard points and carrying capacity are a confusing subject---the function and utility are most important.

Similarly---TW is important but not everything---. Speed is important but not everything---.

It is your electronics that will make the difference between a BE and NOT TO BE--- + it is your missiles and weapons package that will determine your superiority---.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

For an aircraft the size of the JF17---7 hard points is an excellent number based on its utility for what it was designed---.

In the U S 99% of the motorcycles are ridden by the driver---and once in a while a girl in the back seat---.

An average freeway motorcycle would be ranging 800cc and upwards---more like 1000cc and upwards.

In pakistan---an average motorcycle is 70cc in power---and an average motorcycle carries 3 people on it---.

So---then if you look at it thru a different prism---hard points and carrying capacity are a confusing subject---the function and utility are most important.

Similarly---TW is important but not everything---. Speed is important but not everything---.

It is your electronics that will make the difference between a BE and NOT TO BE--- + it is your missiles and weapons package that will determine your superiority---.

With dual racks the JF-17 can carry 9 missiles/weapons for particular missions..

 

[khanasifm]

Chin pylon mostly will be used for pods but if needed assuming mk81/82 type can also be accommodated