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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

You can't fire SD-10 by current PG's. Wiring and fairings, etc, need to be upgraded and with a heavier rail too. There is more to it than what I am saying. But the ideal situation would be to spend a million or so and do the upgrade. These are very agile fighters and many with PG configuration can remain in service for a while.

The sole purpose for designing the F-16 initially, was to counter the Mig-21 initially. Tells you a lot about the Mig-21.

PAF can do that to PGs if they feel its needed, there is not huge weight issue for carrying SD-10 because PG can carry bombs too.

It was PAF who suggested changes in F-7s which were later adopted by China too.
 
He never claimed that he has flown any airplane let alone J-10B
But what does it has to do with flying an airplane?, it just needs a thing called "common sense"....ever heard about it?...I mean maybe sometime your friends or neighbours discussed about it?

J-10 is fully matured and ready in plate, When ever something is cooked in front of PAF it looses it's appetite in favour of another. That's really what's happening, whether is J-10, J-11-15 PAF can never decide in time, having a cutting edge tech at the price of basic requirement is not wisdom. Navy has assessed the threat from India and put her requirement in writing for a heavy weight to counter the threat, but we have put Jf-17 in place to counter the Mig-29 naval version which is the mother of thunder.
With J10 we get a AC common with Plaaf and the inventory can be boosted during hostilities by a brotherly request to China.
 
With J10 we get a AC common with Plaaf and the inventory can be boosted during hostilities by a brotherly request to China.

Let me remind you that was the original plan with the JF-17s, except China never joined the band wagon. Still, production takes place in both Pakistan and China, and in times of need, we should be able to simply import JF-17s from China.
 
Convenient how PAF fighter pilots always dance to the tune of your whims. AESA is too difficult to master, J-10 is piece of cake. Looking forward to more crackpot analysis in the future as well.



Really? He has actually flown a J-10B? If yes, I'll delete my account and get off defence.pk.



Do you have any idea how long it took to finalize 36 Rafales for IAF? Major weapons purchases take a long time and this is so everywhere in the world.

Hi,
Sir - i don't know how to react on your statement (bold part).
do you really think major weapons take time to get? sir its been 8 years just hearing that new fighter will come.
this PAF and our SH*T government doesn't have courage to move and get what best for their Motherland.
they are just after what their Uncle throw. like @MastanKhan said. they just have interest to secure their future but don't give a damn to their country,

her roz ek nai thread open hoti hai about a new fighter. i think Mods should change the PDf name to defencedream.pk.

Sir Zarvan came up many times that you going to hear something in few days, weeks or a month.....

PAF will never go for new fighter jet and stick with world best fighter so called f-soola,
as per our ACM in his recent interview stated that we are in talk for more F16.
and they will keep doing that and its not gonna end ever... IAF will have Rafales BUT WE WILL KEEP IN TALK FOR NEW F-SOOLAA..
 
With J10 we get a AC common with Plaaf and the inventory can be boosted during hostilities by a brotherly request to China.

Hi,

Aap keh munh mein Gulab Jamun---.

Sometimes people say things in one sentence that others may not say in an article.

Commonality---which means that if you have any chinese aircraft in the inventory---in times of duress---you have an unlimited supply.

Which means that if you get 50 aircraft and have 3 or 4 pilot rotation---means that you can double on the aircraft during a conflict---.

Thank you again.
 
Still there is no harm in inducting J-10, if it's really a 4.5 gen aircraft with Aesa, irst and 4.5gen gadgets, then along with India inducting rafael fighter we can add up J-10b/c type with further upgrading. I personally don't trust Chinese stealth technology yet as it's more like a freek or a Frankenstein inChinese aviation. Still need time and real Air in that balloon to be a real stealth. As no special baked paint coating, old tech engine, no real stealth moves on it yet. Seems like a lohar made a ghauri missile dud for its front chowk.
We do not know enough to be able to draw that conclusion. Chinese have come a long way and their progress has been admirable
 


What weapons he is talking about that even f 16 does not have but are availabke on jf 17??

Hi,
Sir - i don't know how to react on your statement (bold part).
do you really think major weapons take time to get? sir its been 8 years just hearing that new fighter will come.
this PAF and our SH*T government doesn't have courage to move and get what best for their Motherland.
they are just after what their Uncle throw. like @MastanKhan said. they just have interest to secure their future but don't give a damn to their country,

her roz ek nai thread open hoti hai about a new fighter. i think Mods should change the PDf name to defencedream.pk.

Sir Zarvan came up many times that you going to hear something in few days, weeks or a month.....

PAF will never go for new fighter jet and stick with world best fighter so called f-soola,
as per our ACM in his recent interview stated that we are in talk for more F16.
and they will keep doing that and its not gonna end ever... IAF will have Rafales BUT WE WILL KEEP IN TALK FOR NEW F-SOOLAA..


There is no point of buying another gen 4 fpighter... new fighter shud b gen 5... its expensive and resource consuming to induct a brand new platform... i think thats what airchief is elluding to...

I also dont like more f 16 policy though
 
There is no point of buying another gen 4 fpighter... new fighter shud b gen 5... its expensive and resource consuming to induct a brand new platform... i think thats what airchief is elluding to...

Frontline jets in three years: Air chief

Saadat says PAF promised largest chunk of defence budget;

Pakistan can’t keep waiting for F-16s

By Mayed Ali

LAHORE: Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Kaleem Saadat has said the PAF will be equipped with the frontline, state-of-the-art fighter aircraft within three years to address the regional imbalance in the skies.

In an exclusive panel interview to The News, the Air Chief Marshal hinted at equipping the PAF with, at least, 60 air-superiority aircraft in the near future for enabling the PAF to defend the country’s aerial frontiers. The PAF is expected to finalize one of the available options soon.

The interview panel comprised Salim Bokhari, and Mayed Ali. Discussing the multiple options which the PAF is weighing, the ACM said, the French Mirage 2000-9, Chinese J-10 (F-10), US F-16s and Swedish AJ-39 (Grippens) were the potential hi-tech aircraft to meet the air force ‘s immediate requirement.
Any of these sophisticated jetfighters could help address the balance of air power in the region. "It is imperative for the PAF to equip its existing fleet with hi-tech air-superiority aircraft to counter any aerial threat in future.

The ACM said the PAF had already presented the government with its future force goals for the next 10-15 years, and the government had not found anything wrong with that. He informed that the government had approved the plans submitted, and assured the PAF it would get the desired funds.

The ACM, however, maintained that the purchase of new aircraft was an exhaustive exercise. He believed it was quite a task to get the best value for the limited resources, as the prices varied with the technology. Quoting examples, he said any air force could purchase an aircraft between ranges of $5 million to $250 million (F-7 to F-22 Raptor). He said it depended on what gadget an air force wanted on board. More sophisticated the equipment one wanted on the aircraft higher would be the price-tag. Moreover, no deal could be ascertained as final till the agreement was signed for so many other factors played a vital role in the materialization of any deal. Ranging from technical reasons, financial constraints to diplomatic pressures, anything could leave an impact on the proposed plan.

During the interview the Air Chief discussed pros and cons of all the options and emphasized that best choice would be made to induct a suitable aircraft in the PAF’s inventory.

The Chief said the existing fleet - 30 plus F-16s and 50 F-7PGs - would go beyond 2012. In addition to this, he added, the PAF would acquire 150-200 JF-17 (Thunder) to meet the future demand. He said over and above this, the PAF would need 50-100 sophisticated western aircraft, which would be the leading edge of the air force.
The PAF would have to work on a three-pronged programme for creating a semblance of balance of air power in the region - upgrade the existing fleet and acquire the JF-17, go for advanced Chinese J-10s in the coming few years and acquire hi-tech western jetfighters as soon as possible. "The question is, will the PAF have the resources to fund all these programmes?"

When asked about the F-16s, Saadat said it was not an issue. "I tell the Americans that F-16 has become an emotional issue for both the parties."

In a lighter tone, the ACM laughed and said he suggested to his interlocutors, ``why don’t we change the request for F-16s to one F-18s, so we can close the F-16s chapter and start a new chapter of F-18s. You see why the PAF is stuck with the case of F-16s.’’

The Air Chief said 16-30 additional F-16s would enhance the PAF’s capability tremendously with very little cost because the logistics were in place, technical training was in place and pilot training was in place. When asked if Pakistan was getting the F-16s, he said he couldn’t say it for sure. Pakistan was not in a position to wait for F-16s for too long.

"If it comes, it comes as a bonus. I am not counting on F-16s." However, it remains a litmus test of relationship with the US. The clear-headed ACM believes Pakistan will have to acquire the latest technology because it is technology alone that provides you effective deterrence.


The work on the Doctrine of the PAF project was initiated during former ACM Mushaf Ali Mir’s time. This book got into print after nine months ACM Kaleem Saadat assumed the slot. The ACM believes the book has been written to tell the people, other services and various institutions about the PAF’s objectives and principles; and the core competencies the PAF aspires to have if it is to defend the country effectively.

http://www.pakdef.org/forum/topic/4597-paf-news-2004-april-june/page-2

For those who think F16`s are best for pakistan ,take a look at corporate war which was happening at that time.
Therefore, the F-16 is being brought up by the US companies just as many times as the PAF. Things were different when Pakistan did not have the economic choice to go elsewhere, but, having sorted its own financial affairs, Chaklala is back in the driving seat and is viewed as a customer, rather than a pleading infant.
If PAF was to for a completely different platform, that would mean that there is a chance that the PAF would be lost as a potential "fighter aircraft" customer for the next decade. Something Northrop and Fairchild have regretted with their respective niches. It would be very expensive for Pakistan to shift from teh present platform to something new and this is teh key worry for most US manufacturers. If Pakistan makes that shift, for whatever reason, then the window of opportunity for the uS based companies would be limited to secondary representation as parts suppliers or co-developers with whoever Pakistan goes with. If it is not the Grippen, then expect them to have an even lesser role in any Rafale/Typhoon/Sukhoi/J-10 scenario. This is not a situation they want to be in. Especially if Pakistan has the financial ability to make the switch.

http://www.pakdef.org/forum/topic/5135-paf-news-2004-sept-oct/page-9


For all those kept on asking about Funds and earth quake i found some really interesting donnations made during that time by intl community

Since the earthquake, the international community has offered over $6 billion in aid and soft loans to help Pakistan recover from the disaster. Though no official figures have been released, the cost of the F-16s alone is expected to be around $2.5 billion.


PS I appologies for not finding exact notification at that time by congress suggesting the sale is necessary to stop Chinese J10 coming to Pakistan,if some one has please share
 
What weapons he is talking about that even f 16 does not have but are availabke on jf 17??




There is no point of buying another gen 4 fpighter... new fighter shud b gen 5... its expensive and resource consuming to induct a brand new platform... i think thats what airchief is elluding to...

I also dont like more f 16 policy though

Hi,

i don't have much knowledge about all this but i am following this foram since 3 years.. we just can't depends on world best fighter f-16 which is not capable to face rafale or indian upgraded SU...

Sir, before rafale land in india we should go for 4.5 gen fighter to answer rafale or su30. , we have options available like J10b/c which is best of best or at least ask china for J11D or J16, i am sure china will find a way to deal with Russians to sale this jet to PAF without any problem .. but our force doesn't have guts to ask for...
except one randi rona about funds ... funds and funds.

i have one question.. where are the all funds which not been used since 2008? pls don't tell me that funds used on JF17.. give me some authentic answer.
Sir i am sure we have funds in place but PAF ego is not satisfied because our ACM is waiting for for US call to pick F-SOOLA as soon as US will be agreed. I JUST WISH US WILL NOT SAY YES FOR THIS TIME. INSHA ALLAH.
 
Hi,
Sir - i don't know how to react on your statement (bold part).
do you really think major weapons take time to get? sir its been 8 years just hearing that new fighter will come.
this PAF and our SH*T government doesn't have courage to move and get what best for their Motherland.
they are just after what their Uncle throw. like @MastanKhan said. they just have interest to secure their future but don't give a damn to their country,

her roz ek nai thread open hoti hai about a new fighter. i think Mods should change the PDf name to defencedream.pk.

Sir Zarvan came up many times that you going to hear something in few days, weeks or a month.....

PAF will never go for new fighter jet and stick with world best fighter so called f-soola,
as per our ACM in his recent interview stated that we are in talk for more F16.
and they will keep doing that and its not gonna end ever... IAF will have Rafales BUT WE WILL KEEP IN TALK FOR NEW F-SOOLAA..
So based on historical facts, written news reports and analysis by professionals- can you prove your statement?
Or even just basic technical know how and comparing if you know that.

If you can, please go ahead- everything else is hot air & drama, if you fall for that and can parrot it, that makes you no better than the sort of analysts we see on Indian TV news.

The trend has to be factual debate, not repeating pointless parroted rants.

Hi,

i don't have much knowledge about all this but i am following this foram since 3 years.. we just can't depends on world best fighter f-16 which is not capable to face rafale or indian upgraded SU...

Sir, before rafale land in india we should go for 4.5 gen fighter to answer rafale or su30. , we have options available like J10b/c which is best of best or at least ask china for J11D or J16, i am sure china will find a way to deal with Russians to sale this jet to PAF without any problem .. but our force doesn't have guts to ask for...
except one randi rona about funds ... funds and funds.

i have one question.. where are the all funds which not been used since 2008? pls don't tell me that funds used on JF17.. give me some authentic answer.
Sir i am sure we have funds in place but PAF ego is not satisfied because our ACM is waiting for for US call to pick F-SOOLA as soon as US will be agreed. I JUST WISH US WILL NOT SAY YES FOR THIS TIME. INSHA ALLAH.
Why can't we depend on the F-16 and who says we are dependent on it.
Please elaborate with details and references to interviews of PAF professionals, or articles in reputable publications, or otherwise.

How are you sure China will find a way to deal with the Russians? Based on what history and news you have recorded or know of that you are sure?

Since 2008, what is the budget PAF had which you seem to be aware of?
What is the exact allocation of this budget , please advise if you have knowledge of it?
Please advise how sure are you we had funds in place when the rest of the country was being stripped to the bone during some of the worst economic years that were riddled with corruption- records of which exist in every major news publication

Please tell us how you came to this conclusion?
Coming to this forum is no qualification, we have everyone from 12 year olds to retired salesmen here who blabber away on subjects they have no relation or an iota of knowledge on as if they are the final authority .

Frontline jets in three years: Air chief

Saadat says PAF promised largest chunk of defence budget;

Pakistan can’t keep waiting for F-16s

By Mayed Ali

LAHORE: Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Kaleem Saadat has said the PAF will be equipped with the frontline, state-of-the-art fighter aircraft within three years to address the regional imbalance in the skies.

In an exclusive panel interview to The News, the Air Chief Marshal hinted at equipping the PAF with, at least, 60 air-superiority aircraft in the near future for enabling the PAF to defend the country’s aerial frontiers. The PAF is expected to finalize one of the available options soon.

The interview panel comprised Salim Bokhari, and Mayed Ali. Discussing the multiple options which the PAF is weighing, the ACM said, the French Mirage 2000-9, Chinese J-10 (F-10), US F-16s and Swedish AJ-39 (Grippens) were the potential hi-tech aircraft to meet the air force ‘s immediate requirement.
Any of these sophisticated jetfighters could help address the balance of air power in the region. "It is imperative for the PAF to equip its existing fleet with hi-tech air-superiority aircraft to counter any aerial threat in future.

The ACM said the PAF had already presented the government with its future force goals for the next 10-15 years, and the government had not found anything wrong with that. He informed that the government had approved the plans submitted, and assured the PAF it would get the desired funds.

The ACM, however, maintained that the purchase of new aircraft was an exhaustive exercise. He believed it was quite a task to get the best value for the limited resources, as the prices varied with the technology. Quoting examples, he said any air force could purchase an aircraft between ranges of $5 million to $250 million (F-7 to F-22 Raptor). He said it depended on what gadget an air force wanted on board. More sophisticated the equipment one wanted on the aircraft higher would be the price-tag. Moreover, no deal could be ascertained as final till the agreement was signed for so many other factors played a vital role in the materialization of any deal. Ranging from technical reasons, financial constraints to diplomatic pressures, anything could leave an impact on the proposed plan.

During the interview the Air Chief discussed pros and cons of all the options and emphasized that best choice would be made to induct a suitable aircraft in the PAF’s inventory.

The Chief said the existing fleet - 30 plus F-16s and 50 F-7PGs - would go beyond 2012. In addition to this, he added, the PAF would acquire 150-200 JF-17 (Thunder) to meet the future demand. He said over and above this, the PAF would need 50-100 sophisticated western aircraft, which would be the leading edge of the air force.
The PAF would have to work on a three-pronged programme for creating a semblance of balance of air power in the region - upgrade the existing fleet and acquire the JF-17, go for advanced Chinese J-10s in the coming few years and acquire hi-tech western jetfighters as soon as possible. "The question is, will the PAF have the resources to fund all these programmes?"

When asked about the F-16s, Saadat said it was not an issue. "I tell the Americans that F-16 has become an emotional issue for both the parties."

In a lighter tone, the ACM laughed and said he suggested to his interlocutors, ``why don’t we change the request for F-16s to one F-18s, so we can close the F-16s chapter and start a new chapter of F-18s. You see why the PAF is stuck with the case of F-16s.’’

The Air Chief said 16-30 additional F-16s would enhance the PAF’s capability tremendously with very little cost because the logistics were in place, technical training was in place and pilot training was in place. When asked if Pakistan was getting the F-16s, he said he couldn’t say it for sure. Pakistan was not in a position to wait for F-16s for too long.

"If it comes, it comes as a bonus. I am not counting on F-16s." However, it remains a litmus test of relationship with the US. The clear-headed ACM believes Pakistan will have to acquire the latest technology because it is technology alone that provides you effective deterrence.


The work on the Doctrine of the PAF project was initiated during former ACM Mushaf Ali Mir’s time. This book got into print after nine months ACM Kaleem Saadat assumed the slot. The ACM believes the book has been written to tell the people, other services and various institutions about the PAF’s objectives and principles; and the core competencies the PAF aspires to have if it is to defend the country effectively.

http://www.pakdef.org/forum/topic/4597-paf-news-2004-april-june/page-2

For those who think F16`s are best for pakistan ,take a look at corporate war which was happening at that time.
Therefore, the F-16 is being brought up by the US companies just as many times as the PAF. Things were different when Pakistan did not have the economic choice to go elsewhere, but, having sorted its own financial affairs, Chaklala is back in the driving seat and is viewed as a customer, rather than a pleading infant.
If PAF was to for a completely different platform, that would mean that there is a chance that the PAF would be lost as a potential "fighter aircraft" customer for the next decade. Something Northrop and Fairchild have regretted with their respective niches. It would be very expensive for Pakistan to shift from teh present platform to something new and this is teh key worry for most US manufacturers. If Pakistan makes that shift, for whatever reason, then the window of opportunity for the uS based companies would be limited to secondary representation as parts suppliers or co-developers with whoever Pakistan goes with. If it is not the Grippen, then expect them to have an even lesser role in any Rafale/Typhoon/Sukhoi/J-10 scenario. This is not a situation they want to be in. Especially if Pakistan has the financial ability to make the switch.

http://www.pakdef.org/forum/topic/5135-paf-news-2004-sept-oct/page-9


For all those kept on asking about Funds and earth quake i found some really interesting donnations made during that time by intl community

Since the earthquake, the international community has offered over $6 billion in aid and soft loans to help Pakistan recover from the disaster. Though no official figures have been released, the cost of the F-16s alone is expected to be around $2.5 billion.


PS I appologies for not finding exact notification at that time by congress suggesting the sale is necessary to stop Chinese J10 coming to Pakistan,if some one has please share
Thank you for being someone who actually posts relevant articles and news, rather than just rants.

Much appreciated
 
I just thought it was funny , when we were about to induct JF17 , there was a counter ceremony held for induction of F16 (and back then the air cheif , as gullable as they were ) thought that we would get 18-24 F16 orders with no issues. And there was all this comotion and parties and celebrations , the cheif was going to flying to visit delegates in USA this and that ....

Rememeber this celebration lol
They painted it to look like the F16 E/F model that UAE flies and we were all excited
F-16_Induction_ceremony.jpg
file.php


Then when we started hearing about induction of Turkish frigate, we see our Navy cheif is getting private invites to visit the US Navy ? ehm ... like man order the frigates frist and then go do your private visits overseas

What did they promise you in your private visit ? a destroyer which will be given to Pakistan just if we wait 2-3 years and not order the ships from Turkey or China


Between 2005-2017 : We got just mere 18 F16 C/D the amazing plane
Between 2008-2017 : We made 86-90 JF17 Thunders
Between 2005-2014 : We missed out on 36 J10B deal
Wth hell, do u think chiefs are just wined and dined and they come back like wet girls, whats wrong with u??? Ur talking like a 2 yr old kid, j 10 didnt come cause most probably j 31 was incorporated into paf plans, the ever open call for f 16's is just to procure jets for stop gap measures, u people think of life here on pdf just from the future perspective while paf lives in the present has to think about defencd every minute of the passing day...
 
So based on historical facts, written news reports and analysis by professionals- can you prove your statement?
Or even just basic technical know how and comparing if you know that.

If you can, please go ahead- everything else is hot air & drama, if you fall for that and can parrot it, that makes you no better than the sort of analysts we see on Indian TV news.

The trend has to be factual debate, not repeating pointless parroted rants.


Why can't we depend on the F-16 and who says we are dependent on it.
Please elaborate with details and references to interviews of PAF professionals, or articles in reputable publications, or otherwise.

How are you sure China will find a way to deal with the Russians? Based on what history and news you have recorded or know of that you are sure?

Since 2008, what is the budget PAF had which you seem to be aware of?
What is the exact allocation of this budget , please advise if you have knowledge of it?
Please advise how sure are you we had funds in place when the rest of the country was being stripped to the bone during some of the worst economic years that were riddled with corruption- records of which exist in every major news publication

Please tell us how you came to this conclusion?
Coming to this forum is no qualification, we have everyone from 12 year olds to retired salesmen here who blabber away on subjects they have no relation or an iota of knowledge on as if they are the final authority .


Thank you for being someone who actually posts relevant articles and news, rather than just rants.

Much appreciated

Hi,
Sir
1, as you mentioned who said we are dependent on F16. Actually yes we are dependent only on this Jet as we don't have any other fighter - that is the reason After successfully induction of JF17 Block 1, 2 and soon Block 3 will be in force. we are keep seeking US help to get some used f16.
I have one question as you are most senior member here. please tell me and our other Fanboy's Do you really think with current F16 fleet we can face indian su30, Mig29 M2k etc... soon they are going to get Rafale? what are our plans to go against these threat?
i didn't to challenge anyone here or our PAF. i just said what is truth as we are just talking but not a single action been taken from our PAF or government. i believe. MEN behind the machine is good reason to give just to keep others mouth shut. but in reality its not truth.
if that is the fact we won't lose our valued soldier/fighter pilots in crashes.

if we come on china's help. we Pakistani use to say and many PDF member says. that china and pakistan are brothers and can do anything when it comes to Pakistan so why not they can help when we will ask them to buy their jets. they will help to convince russia to sale J-series to PAF. only if we ask. but i don't think we will ask.

because we will go for jordan F16 or new one as per the ACM interview.

regarding fund availability.
Sir its not just me. i think you also knows and many on this foram knows that we must have funds but not using to guard our nation. we as Nation should ask where are those funds going..
we are just tired by hearing funds are saving for Fifth gen fighter. which is about 5 - 8 yrs from now on.
what about now? what if we are in war?
we will go in war with our might 76 F16? plus we have big stock of junks
apart from JF17.

please correct me where i am wrong.

Thanks.
 
Air chief said that JF17 block 3 will be in service in 2019-20. So its means we have some measure changes based on 9 years experience and output of PAF pilots. So i am expecting some handsome changes and JF17 will be next level beast:cheers:
 

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