JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[nomi007]

PAF need to make also a western oriented thunder
with
European engine

aesa radar

&

weapon systems

 

[Dil Pakistan]

PAF need to make also a western oriented thunder
with
European engine

aesa radar

&

weapon systems

I think that was the idea when French deal was alive. That was scuppered due to Rafale's India deal (...which also did not go through).

 

[araz]

JFT lacks a full FBW.

Cannot pull +9g which is the standard for 4th gen fighters.

Yara what do you want to do with it---Aerial kama sutra??. What in your view would be the difference between a plane that does +8 or +9 Gs and to what extent would it save you when followed by a missile capable of pulling 50 Gs. Similarly the design was kept safe and stable enough for PAF s infantile aviation industry to get to grips with and a full FBW setup was avoided in place of the current setup. The fact that the Chinese system was still in development may have had something to do with it as well. The plane is maneuverable enough with its current setup and has been seen doing the thumkas and its show in Paris was widely appreciated.
A

 

[RAMPAGE]

Yara what do you want to do with it---Aerial kama sutra??. What in your view would be the difference between a plane that does +8 or +9 Gs and to what extent would it save you when followed by a missile capable of pulling 50 Gs. Similarly the design was kept safe and stable enough for PAF s infantile aviation industry to get to grips with and a full FBW setup was avoided in place of the current setup. The fact that the Chinese system was still in development may have had something to do with it as well. The plane is maneuverable enough with its current setup and has been seen doing the thumkas and its show in Paris was widely appreciated.
A

Seeing it from a customers perspective, those are cons.

 

[Saifullah]

Yara what do you want to do with it---Aerial kama sutra??. What in your view would be the difference between a plane that does +8 or +9 Gs and to what extent would it save you when followed by a missile capable of pulling 50 Gs. Similarly the design was kept safe and stable enough for PAF s infantile aviation industry to get to grips with and a full FBW setup was avoided in place of the current setup. The fact that the Chinese system was still in development may have had something to do with it as well. The plane is maneuverable enough with its current setup and has been seen doing the thumkas and its show in Paris was widely appreciated.
A

I am not an Aeronautical Engineer but my understanding is that Pitch is the most sensitive one with respect to safety in all three Pitch,Yaw and Roll. I don't why PAF didn't include Full FBW but it should have been there or at least they should incorporate it in new blocks.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Seeing it from a customers perspective, those are cons.

A new and powerful POWER PLANT can change the whole scenario and that is possible in the near future....with retro-fittings in the current blocks.

 

[Bratva]

Shaheen IV ?

 

[araz]

Seeing it from a customers perspective, those are cons.

In any case various presentations suggests that JFT has quad channel FBW. I need to find the presentation by the Chinese deaigner of JFT. It suggested that the JFT has quad channel FBW. Please also see Crabato's post quoted in post 12 of thunder info pool as proof. Iam sure you will find references to the designers presentation on thunder from a couple of years ago.
A

 

[JamD]

I am not an Aeronautical Engineer but my understanding is that Pitch is the most sensitive one with respect to safety in all three Pitch,Yaw and Roll. I don't why PAF didn't include Full FBW but it should have been there or at least they should incorporate it in new blocks.

Well then take it from an aeronautical engineer :p
Yaw and roll are coupled, that means you can't have one without the other. For most designs pitch isn't coupled to Yaw or roll. What this means is that the pilot has an easier time controlling pitch. He pulls the stick back, the nose pitches up. On the other hand a pilot rolls right he yaws as well and actually has to give negative rudder to just roll purely. Similarly for yawing. It is because of this that the controls for Yaw and roll feel rather "unnatural". This is why it makes sense to have fbw in the lateral modes (Yaw and roll) if you are not going to have full fbw. Some of the most dangerous tendencies of the aircraft are in the lateral modes.

In any case various presentations suggests that JFT has quad channel FBW. I need to find the presentation by the Chinese deaigner of JFT. It suggested that the JFT has quad channel FBW. Please also see Crabato's post quoted in post 12 of thunder info pool as proof. Iam sure you will find references to the designers presentation on thunder from a couple of years ago.
A

Quad channel would mean quadruplex right? Four redundant layers?

 

[Thunder_Rider]

F16 Pilot have thousands of Flights hours while flying only F16 and JF Pilot is not even near that. JF-17 is not pitched to its limits on public for now. Go watch Dubai shows than Turkey show and than Paris show you will find the gradual increase on pushing the AC.

Bro, I have followed the JFT's timeline pretty much from it's induction into PAF. I have also watched all its displays in the Air Shows it participated. I personally haven't noticed any considerable change in the AC's performance. It did put up quite a show in Paris but Aerobatics performance is still pretty much the same, except that short vertical climb it made in Paris. In my opinion, even the older F-16's are still better than JFT in performance & maneuverability.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Bro, I have followed the JFT's timeline pretty much from it's induction into PAF. I have also watched all its displays in the Air Shows it participated. I personally haven't noticed any considerable change in the AC's performance. It did put up quite a show in Paris but Aerobatics performance is still pretty much the same, except that short vertical climb it made in Paris. In my opinion, even the older F-16's are still better than JFT in performance & maneuverability.

Well buddy, you are making your assumptions from videos and demonstrations and I told my assumptions from people who have flown it and still flying it. I live in the city where the thunders are based and live in the area where its engineers and pilots live. Even had a discussion with F-16s pilot who praised this lil bird for its performance.

It may not be as efficient as an F-16 but it can hold its ground against superior planes. All it needs is a better powered engine and some more advanced avionics goodies especially a better radar and an AESA would work wonders with it.

 

[Windjammer]

Shaheen IV ?

No dear, just Kamra runway -33.

 

[araz]

Well then take it from an aeronautical engineer :p
Yaw and roll are coupled, that means you can't have one without the other. For most designs pitch isn't coupled to Yaw or roll. What this means is that the pilot has an easier time controlling pitch. He pulls the stick back, the nose pitches up. On the other hand a pilot rolls right he yaws as well and actually has to give negative rudder to just roll purely. Similarly for yawing. It is because of this that the controls for Yaw and roll feel rather "unnatural". This is why it makes sense to have fbw in the lateral modes (Yaw and roll) if you are not going to have full fbw. Some of the most dangerous tendencies of the aircraft are in the lateral modes.


Quad channel would mean quadruplex right? Four redundant layers?

Thank you for the correction. While we have got you here, would you please explain the Quadruplex fly by wire and in layman terms what it means. Thanks in advance.
A

 

[Mughal-Prince]

As to spool up time and accelaration, I gather that it is one of the advantages of the RD93 series. It does lack FADEC but this is due to be rectified in RD93MA.

I understand of the rest of your post.

I am keen to know the spool up time for RD93 which is currently in use and the expected version of MA and do I took your post as meant to informing that RD93-MA will comes with FADEC ?? Kindly answer Thanks.

 

[Thunder_Rider]

Well buddy, you are making your assumptions from videos and demonstrations and I told my assumptions from people who have flown it and still flying it. I live in the city where the thunders are based and live in the area where its engineers and pilots live. Even had a discussion with F-16s pilot who praised this lil bird for its performance.

It may not be as efficient as an F-16 but it can hold its ground against superior planes. All it needs is a better powered engine and some more advanced avionics goodies especially a better radar and an AESA would work wonders with it.

I believe you sir.