JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Kompromat]

@Oscar

Having spoken to some knowledeable folk, i've gotten an idea that PAF's long term strategy is to attain across the spectrum sensor fusion through NCW infrastructure. Its being mentioned by serious people that the sensor fusion suite developed for J-20 will be incorporated in JFTs. PAF also seems keen on J-31 and slowly but steadily building a robust NCW air defense network.

While IAF will be much larger in the long term, PAF will be much integrated, would have across the fleet sensor fusion to build a reliable situational awareness grid including SAM net. The concept of all air borne assets, ground radars, and AWACs sharing what they see with the entire fighting force through a high speed encrypted data link is more than attractive.

IAF will continue to field, Russian, French and Indian aircraft which means it will be extremely hard for them to network all of its fleet on a single MILSTD Network or achieve across the spectrum sensor fusion. The simple reason being the French and Russians who'd be the providers of almost 80% IAF gear are not going to 'mate' for understandable reasons.

"Hold your skies" strategy will only succeed if our future fleet is fully integrated and has superior situational awareness than IAF over our own territory.

 

[MastanKhan]

The Cope India exercise 2004-05 are over rated btw. There were too many restrictions on the USAF for the test data to be taken reliably. It is very much possible the outcomes would have been different had the F-15 radars not been disabled as per ROE.

Hi,

Even though cope india is over rated---what it has done is taken the fear factor away---the awe that the indian pilots and public had is not there anymore----so that in itself is a major victory.

You fly in fear of the enemy---you are going to make mistakes----you fly with confidence and a sense of victory behind you----you will turn the tables.

 

[amony89]

can jf-17 handle the RAA'D Missile

 

[MastanKhan]

Interesting thoughts. I'll put in a few points.

Firstly, IAF has no intention of allowing PAF to gain air superiority, let that be very clear. The IAF will do whatever it takes, spend however much it needs, buy whatever it gets its hands on, to ensure PAF never again has superior air assets again.

The PAF realizes this very well. Their best strategy lies in airspace denial or in a more conservative outlook, denying air superiority over Pak airspace.

Secondly, You do realize that attacking IAF aircraft will be an overt declaration of war. You are not talking about lobbing a few mortar shells over the LOC or Working boundary here. You are talking of taking down an IAF jet inside Indian airspace. And that is in a border region where IAF tracks balloons, birds even god dammed kites near the border/LOC/WB.

But besides that, what if PAF fighters get downed in the engagement? What do you do then? Back out meekly after a failed attack? Attack again and risk further escalation? Keep in mind that the moment IAF releases the radar data that shows you are the aggressor, you most definitely will lose international support, and with that the desperately required IMF/World Bank support.

Also there is almost no doubt in senior PAF commanders minds that any attack on IAF will invite swift and heavy retaliation on the PAF bases. Kaiser Tufail has, in his blog, clearly put out this fear within the PAF establishment in his article on Kargil conflict.

And thirdly, for the sake of conspiracies, what if PM Modi actually wants Pak to commit such an act of aggression, indefensible on the international forum? What if this the type of headstrong act he needs to justify escalation?

And finally, Cold Start does not exist now, and perhaps never did. India will not go to war, even if another Mumbai were to occur tomorrow. It will take far worse than that to force India to war now.

Sir,

Thank you for your post-----it is a myth that india can spend what it wants to---. It does not works that way. You need to have man power available to take care of those assets----and you have a major issue with that.

During the kargil conflict----paf " did not have an operational air force " and still we achieved our initial target / goal and held it for awhile.

Off course---I do realize that it will be a declaration of war---possibly an all out war.

I keep saying----" pin pricks start wars "---when a point of no return is reached.

What is the big seal with the radar data---we also released the radar data with a gun lock on the SU30 as well---.

If it is an all out attack on our bases---then it is an all out attack on your bases as well----and thank you very much for deploying alot of your heavies within a 100 miles of the border.

The problem with your post is that you don't understand the seriousness of the issue at hand EITHER----.

What if, it is us that want to escalate the issue---but , before you answer that question---ask yourself---have you ever been in a position that where you took a stand and then later realized that it was a mistake / it was not worth it / you had no concept of the aftermath---IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN THERE----then you are like most of your countrymen---but if you have been there---well at least you know what can happen.

It is because of your attitude that the world is going to have a major catastrophic problem---. You going to keep pushing and pushing with out talking and that will only head to one and only one direction---and that direction is not a happy place to be.

 

[IrbiS]

Red Flag briefing about IAF Su-30MKI by a USAF Col. - Part I

Red Flag briefing about IAF Su-30MKI by a USAF Col. - Part II

 

[Didact]

Sir,

Thank you for your post-----it is a myth that india can spend what it wants to---. It does not works that way. You need to have man power available to take care of those assets----and you have a major issue with that.

During the kargil conflict----paf " did not have an operational air force " and still we achieved our initial target / goal and held it for awhile.

That statement of yours, is both true and false, depending on the context. If you were talking about an Indo-China scenario, it's an undeniable truth, however inconvenient it might be for us. But in the Indo-Pak context, it's plain wrong. The Indian government has enough financial muscle to push through a panic buy if the situation demands it.

There is precedent for this as well. Check up the Indian response to PAF inducting F-16s in the 80s. That was when the Indian Government was under severe fiscal pressure with a very weak treasury. I'll assure you the current situation is not that hopeless for us.

And wrt to Kargil, the keyword is "Initial". I doubt I need explain anything more.

Off course---I do realize that it will be a declaration of war---possibly an all out war.

I keep saying----" pin pricks start wars "---when a point of no return is reached.

What is the big seal with the radar data---we also released the radar data with a gun lock on the SU30 as well---.

If it is an all out attack on our bases---then it is an all out attack on your bases as well----and thank you very much for deploying alot of your heavies within a 100 miles of the border.

The big deal is that radar data will provide irrefutable proof of PAF being the aggressor and IAF being the victim without any aerial provocation. In the context of the Su-30 being locked on, it was a non-issue because, well, nothing happened. In your scenario, if IAF assets are indeed downed within Indian airspace, you can be certain it will not remain a non-issue.

And I needn't remind you that Pak can ill afford international outrage or worse, isolation at this juncture.

The problem with your post is that you don't understand the seriousness of the issue at hand EITHER----.

What if, it is us that want to escalate the issue---but , before you answer that question---ask yourself---have you ever been in a position that where you took a stand and then later realized that it was a mistake / it was not worth it / you had no concept of the aftermath---IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN THERE----then you are like most of your countrymen---but if you have been there---well at least you what can happen.

It is because of your attitude that the world is going to have a major catastrophic problem---. You going to keep pushing and pushing with out talking and that will only head to one and only one direction---and that direction is not a happy place to be.

With all honesty, I'm terrible at understanding abstract and/or philosophical arguments. So I request you to provide a simple version of this part.

 

[nomi007]

soon on jf-17 block 2

 

[Sulman Badshah]

soon on jf-17 block 2

Pianrha B chances are more then A darter

however Prianha B is also developed from A darter

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

First of all--there is too much unpredictability in this conflict.

The kargil conflict stayed predictable---because one side did not have an active air force ( Pakistan ). The indian air craft were downed by SA missiles----ok so sh-it happens----.

But if they were downed in an air to air combat---things would have escalated real fast and gone out of control.

The iaf will only be able to put 1/2 to 60 % of its fleet on the Pakistan front and that is not enough to take out paf.

 

[Chak Bamu]

A war looks very unlikely, even though my friend MastanKhan thinks otherwise.

Yes, we should get a squadron or two of F-16 Block 52s - if we can afford them. As of now we can not. So that pretty much ends the thought.

While India is heating up the border, Pakistan is doing a good job at using diplomacy - per Ambassador M. K. Bhadrakumar. Pakistanis know that Modi's India is acting a certain way and that the signatures of any dotted line are no more than a remote possibility. This is not unexpected, nor is it a doomsday scenario.

JF-17 is what we can afford, and this is where we must focus our attention, energy, and resources. @Oscar made an excellent point about us being able to generate higher sortie rate and having 'more' pilots up in the air. This is what it means to have a relatively inexpensive single-engine fighter with quick turn-around. This is how JF-17 was designed by PAF.

The situation in which Pakistan (and PAF) finds itself only validates the merit of having JF-17. We will go broke reaching for unaffordable toys. We just have to ensure that we have a bit of time until nuclear threshold is approached and the world realizes the danger.

An escalation of hostilities from India will help us put our case more strongly. We had already evolved a strategy to deal with India before Indian elections. We had already taken necessary steps as well.

In any case, it would be better if we could focus on JF-17, instead of thinking about what-could-have-been and what-should-have-been.

 

[Donatello]

That statement of yours, is both true and false, depending on the context. If you were talking about an Indo-China scenario, it's an undeniable truth, however inconvenient it might be for us. But in the Indo-Pak context, it's plain wrong. The Indian government has enough financial muscle to push through a panic buy if the situation demands it.

There is precedent for this as well. Check up the Indian response to PAF inducting F-16s in the 80s. That was when the Indian Government was under severe fiscal pressure with a very weak treasury. I'll assure you the current situation is not that hopeless for us.

And wrt to Kargil, the keyword is "Initial". I doubt I need explain anything more.




The big deal is that radar data will provide irrefutable proof of PAF being the aggressor and IAF being the victim without any aerial provocation. In the context of the Su-30 being locked on, it was a non-issue because, well, nothing happened. In your scenario, if IAF assets are indeed downed within Indian airspace, you can be certain it will not remain a non-issue.

And I needn't remind you that Pak can ill afford international outrage or worse, isolation at this juncture.



With all honesty, I'm terrible at understanding abstract and/or philosophical arguments. So I request you to provide a simple version of this part.

I am sorry, but your statement contradicts some of your own reasoning. Fiscal pressures and sanctions didn't stop Pakistan from procuring stop-gap air assets (Mirage III/V ROSE, F-7PGs) during 1990s, didn't stop Pakistan from getting the nukes, that came through right under the nose of the west. If India can do panic buying, so can Pakistan. It will probably be based on loans, but i'd rather have loans to fight today, than nothing left for tomorrow.

You are talking about 2035, yet for the past 6 years you still haven't been able to sign the MMRCA. When that does get signed, it will be another 8-10 years to finish the project, and given the reputation of HAL, there is 100% chance that there will be teething issues and some of your assets would be delayed. Let's talk about today or say, another 5 years? Because that is more realistic.

PAF is in no mood to get superiority over India. If it does, great, but the main aim is to prevent India from making 'surgical strikes', in which case, most of your assets would be intercepted and shot. Addition of SAMs on both sides of the border will also greatly affect the balance, and as Horus said, you need a NCW to fight a BVR war and survive. Last, since most of your bases are easy strike distances from Pakistan via both air assets and cruise/glide missiles, what are the chances that your fighters can take off from a damaged runway? What about them unable to land back for another sortie?

We have no ambition to 'over take' India. We want to make sure that any cost of Indian adventure towards Pakistan is magnified that the moment never comes.

Now, if India fielded 1000 4th gen combat aircraft and PAF only 200-300, i would say, war is lost. But that is not the case and will not be the case anytime soon.

 

[Dazzler]

Pianrha B chances are more then A darter

however Prianha B is also developed from A darter

pirahna B is a development of python-4 with me tron's expertise, falling above r-73 and below python-5. Overall, a very good HOBS sraam with an affordable price.

can jf-17 handle the RAA'D Missile

yes, it is a part of weapon integration program on jf-17.

 

[Khizar Javed Khan]

any news of jf-17 block 2 prototype?

 

[nomi007]

bhai 5th gen kab se hoa jf-17 thunder

 

[Moon]

can jf-17 handle the RAA'D Missile

Yes, since it's purpose is to replace the Mirages & the F-7s it's bound to have superior capabilities than both of them.