JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[VCheng]

And then you claim to have ditched your Pakistani characteristics of being hypocritical or doing the "bheegi billi" routine.


Be an American and own up.

As to your question, there is no WS-13 powered JF-17 for the PAF. They are happy with the RD-93(and future developments that might give the WS-13 competition). Any WS-13 powered aircraft are for export customers.

(If there were anything to own up, I would, except there isn't any. Please go back and read my posts again, and see what you said.)

Will PAF be getting the RD-93MA then?

 

[razgriz19]

If the plane is pushed beyond its tolerance limits and disintegrates, then it is a pilot error.

not really, that's the job of the aircraft flight control computers. They're suppose to keep the aircraft in its flight envelope at all time even if the pilot pushes it too hard.
JF-17 has fly by wire, which means it has flight envelope protection for +8/-3 Gs. The wing cannot just disintegrate..... Something is not right here

Although a stall could bring it down, but we don't know if that was the cause

 

[Bratva]

not really, that's the job of the aircraft flight control computers. They're suppose to keep the aircraft in its flight envelope at all time even if the pilot pushes it too hard.
JF-17 has fly by wire, which means it has flight envelope protection for +8/-3 Gs. The wing cannot just disintegrate..... Something is not right here

Although a stall could bring it down, but we don't know if that was the cause

And that's why 33 aircraft wings were modified. As Taimi said, It was a design flaw.

 

[Caprxl]

not really, that's the job of the aircraft flight control computers. They're suppose to keep the aircraft in its flight envelope at all time even if the pilot pushes it too hard.
JF-17 has fly by wire, which means it has flight envelope protection for +8/-3 Gs. The wing cannot just disintegrate..... Something is not right here

Although a stall could bring it down, but we don't know if that was the cause

I think Fly by Wire is only in 1 axis ??
Can it cover all that flight envelope and not let Aircraft cross it's limits ?

 

[khanasifm]

Looks like RD-93 overhaul capability is now available at PAC per this program

 

[SQ8]

(If there were anything to own up, I would, except there isn't any. Please go back and read my posts again, and see what you said.)

Will PAF be getting the RD-93MA then?

Bheegi Billi.. typical.

Yes, quite likely that the RD-93MA is coming through.. the variant has no other customer yet development is on at full pace.
Current orders for the RD-93 are at 100. So with 150 aircraft on order there are 50 engines(not to mention spares) that will be of the new variant.

 

[Donatello]

I thought the maritime strike role was with the Mirages

Well, that specific role is now being superseded by a 'multi-role' aircraft....the KLJ-7 is superior in all aspects to the radar carried by the Mirages....meaning...it can do a better job at air to air and air to sea.....while carrying more anti ship missiles.....2 or 3 compared to the limited range single Exocet.

Bheegi Billi.. typical.

Yes, quite likely that the RD-93MA is coming through.. the variant has no other customer yet development is on at full pace.
Current orders for the RD-93 are at 100. So with 150 aircraft on order there are 50 engines(not to mention spares) that will be of the new variant.

So block III will be the first radical re-design.....AESA, more Engine thrust...possibly more hardpoints for the pods and perhaps IRST and true HOBS capability?

not really, that's the job of the aircraft flight control computers. They're suppose to keep the aircraft in its flight envelope at all time even if the pilot pushes it too hard.
JF-17 has fly by wire, which means it has flight envelope protection for +8/-3 Gs. The wing cannot just disintegrate..... Something is not right here

Although a stall could bring it down, but we don't know if that was the cause

It was a test aircraft out of PAC....not an operational one.....meaning the FBW rules can be overridden.....i mean...you write the software...of course you can disable it.

Similar to the Airbus A400 tranporter crash in Spain.....

 

[VCheng]

Bheegi Billi.. typical.

Yes, quite likely that the RD-93MA is coming through.. the variant has no other customer yet development is on at full pace.
Current orders for the RD-93 are at 100. So with 150 aircraft on order there are 50 engines(not to mention spares) that will be of the new variant.

Petty name calling from a better-than-usual Mod ..... atypical.

Anyway, the RD-93MA would be just an important step as the WS-13, although it would be surprising to see Pakistan keep a Russian engine, considering its much deeper relationship with China for its premier fighter platform, but then again, stranger things have happened in international geopolitics.

 

[SQ8]

Petty name calling from a better-than-usual Mod ..... atypical.

Anyway, the RD-93MA would be just an important step as the WS-13, although it would be surprising to see Pakistan keep a Russian engine, considering its much deeper relationship with China for its premier fighter platform, but then again, stranger things have happened in international geopolitics.

Lame comebacks... older gentlemen suffer from it.. atypical.

The Russians value business regardless, there is a lot more than RD-93s coming in which is not always on the press. Also, the Chinese know where they are licked..and metallurgy is one place where they are still struggling.So they have no complaints and ironically are rather supportive.

 

[VCheng]

Lame comebacks... older gentlemen suffer from it.. atypical.

The Russians value business regardless, there is a lot more than RD-93s coming in which is not always on the press. Also, the Chinese know where they are licked..and metallurgy is one place where they are still struggling.So they have no complaints and ironically are rather supportive.

Et tu Oscar? I was obviously wrong in thinking you were one of the few semi-sane in this asylum.

Are you saying that PAF is expressing its doubts about the Chinese potential to actually deliver and stick with the tried-and-true engine technology that they know works? (Just asking a question, and not implying anything else.)

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Thank you and please don't be shy.

Your advice, comments are well desired and respected so do come around more often.

Thanks much!!
With warm regards.

Where are you from?

In short,
‘m from the Land of the Free…
..and home of the Brave

And I do not mean Belize, or the Album by Pennywise, IYKWIM.
I am chagrined to see the Old Glory ain’t there under my Callsign. I’ll fix it ASAP.

 

[SQ8]

Et tu Oscar? I was obviously wrong in thinking you were one of the few semi-sane in this asylum.

Are you saying that PAF is expressing its doubts about the Chinese potential to actually deliver and stick with the tried-and-true engine technology that they know works? (Just asking a question, and not implying anything else.)

There is no such as thing as sanity for any member of this forum Doctor.
The PAF has its doubts about the Chinese ability to delivery reliable turbofans and that opinion is forged from the Chinese reports on their product. Make no mistake, the Chinese Turbojets are all good; its the turbofans they cant seem to make work.
Additionally, despite what is assumed knowledge by those with little of their own as is seen abundantly here; the PAF(or Pakistanis entire defence establishment) has a preference for whatever works best. If that means these Frankenstein with components from all over the world.. then so be it. There is no love lost for the Chinese but there is no obsession with it either. It is quite likely had there been better economic times and less on -off pariah status.. the JF-17 would likely have been flying with the EJ-200(although that would have taken away from the cost effectiveness of the aircraft).
The Chinese lag behind in engine metallurgy(and NOT DESIGN) and the PAF knows it. Thankfully they agree on not shooting themselves in the foot just to be nice to a friend.

There is a reason why the JF-17s production line has test equipment from a particular American firm. Because it is the best for its price AND it could be procured easily.

That red bit is the core driving principle to understand in all Pakistani defence procurement( apart from the $100000 cars bought to keep the brass in these departments comfortable).

 

[VCheng]

There is no such as thing as sanity for any member of this forum Doctor.
The PAF has its doubts about the Chinese ability to delivery reliable turbofans and that opinion is forged from the Chinese reports on their product. Make no mistake, the Chinese Turbojets are all good; its the turbofans they cant seem to make work.
Additionally, despite what is assumed knowledge by those with little of their own as is seen abundantly here; the PAF(or Pakistanis entire defence establishment) has a preference for whatever works best. If that means these Frankenstein with components from all over the world.. then so be it. There is no love lost for the Chinese but there is no obsession with it either. It is quite likely had there been better economic times and less on -off pariah status.. the JF-17 would likely have been flying with the EJ-200(although that would have taken away from the cost effectiveness of the aircraft).
The Chinese lag behind in engine metallurgy(and NOT DESIGN) and the PAF knows it. Thankfully they agree on not shooting themselves in the foot just to be nice to a friend.

There is a reason why the JF-17s production line has test equipment from a particular American firm. Because it is the best for its price AND it could be procured easily.

That red bit is the core driving principle to understand in all Pakistani defence procurement( apart from the $100000 cars bought to keep the brass in these departments comfortable).

I can agree with that post.

 

[SQ8]

I can agree with that post.

Oh lawd AlmightY! Its the sign of the end! Repent and thou shalt be forgiven!

 

[VCheng]

Oh lawd AlmightY! Its the sign of the end! Repent and thou shalt be forgiven!

What happens between me and the Almighty remains between us only.

I am glad to see this thread remain on track.