JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

What was the FOC date for JF 17 ?

 

[Bratva]

some very interesting points .... I must say ....

More likely personal opinion of Tufail sahab and should be treated as such. He is not an authority on what's happening or going to happen to JF-17, Because JF-17 team is as unpredictable as our Pakistani cricket team is.

What was the FOC date for JF 17 ?

For the United States Department of Defense military acquisition, FOC is defined as [1] "In general, attained when all units and/or organizations in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it. The specifics for any particular system FOC are defined in that system’s Capability Development Document (CDD) and Capability Production Document (CPD)."

FOC is a certification event marking completion of training, providing maintenance facilities, and end of planned production of the item. This does not preclude additional orders to obtain the item outside of that contract or after that contract FOC.



By that definition JF-17 has achieved it's FOC

 

[Side-Winder]

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

For the United States Department of Defense military acquisition, FOC is defined as [1] "In general, attained when all units and/or organizations in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it. The specifics for any particular system FOC are defined in that system’s Capability Development Document (CDD) and Capability Production Document (CPD)."

FOC is a certification event marking completion of training, providing maintenance facilities, and end of planned production of the item. This does not preclude additional orders to obtain the item outside of that contract or after that contract FOC.



By that definition JF-17 has achieved it's FOC

Sorry.. Did not understand. I had read earlier somewhere on the forum (I think it was @Oscar) that JF 17 is FOC certified. I was just interested in the date of certification and whether the certification happened in China or Pakistan

 

[Donatello]

After getting its 'Ghusal' like those Sarviz Station car wash.

 

[nomi007]

chinese media

 

[AFlover]

chinese media
View attachment 195198

What does the Chinese media say?

 

[Taygibay]

Sorry.. Did not understand. I had read earlier somewhere on the forum (I think it was @Oscar) that JF 17 is FOC certified. I was just interested in the date of certification and whether the certification happened in China or Pakistan

FOC has a different meaning outside the US. In many places it corresponds to the activation of the first Squadron equipped with a new plane by opposition to IOC that sees the material as fully tested and at least one available to the forces with others to follow.
In any case, certification is only the process of the aircraft having been found compliant to its specifications and air traffic rules by the local authorities. Thus the Thunder got the certification in China first as the FC-1 Xiaolong in March 2005 IIRC .

I'll tentatively risk giving March 2007 as its Pakistani certification / IOC since that is when the first two were delivered and just as soon used in your Pakistan Day parade but you'd better wait for someone better qualified ( i.e. from Pakistan ) to corroborate that.

Hope it helps and good day, Tay.

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

FOC has a different meaning outside the US. In many places it corresponds to the activation of the first Squadron equipped with a new plane by opposition to IOC that sees the material as fully tested and at least one available to the forces with others to follow.
In any case, certification is only the process of the aircraft having been found compliant to its specifications and air traffic rules by the local authorities. Thus the Thunder got the certification in China first as the FC-1 Xiaolong in March 2005 IIRC .

I'll tentatively risk giving March 2007 as its Pakistani certification / IOC since that is when the first two were delivered and just as soon used in your Pakistan Day parade but you'd better wait for someone better qualified ( i.e. from Pakistan ) to corroborate that.

Hope it helps and good day, Tay.

Thanks.. Though I do remember that till a couple years back, JF 17 was not yet integrated with BVRs and a lot of avionic improvements were still WIP. And it wasnt FOCed till then. Just wanted to know which year it got its FOC certification and which PAF/Pakistani agency did the honors.

 

[Taygibay]

Oh! OK, mate, got that! Part of the bug is then your use of FOC which is what I was trying to outline.
If you mean **** FOC of BLOCK 1, it got that de facto in December as the last of these rolled off the
assembly line since production of the Block2 begun on the 18th Dec. 2014 although the date could be
also that of induction to active service of that last aircraft so a couple weeks ago.
If you meant FOC of any block as in the US meaning, it will get that when the last ever gets delivered?

In any case, FOC is delivered by the PAF; here it would be the Black Panthers
with IOC in 2011 and FOC late 2014 or early 2015 as we just saw. I can't give you the date.

You seem to be confusing introduction of new capabilities with FOC. By that count, the Mirage are then
not yet FOC since you are still upgrading them. Is that clearer?

Tay.

P.S. "FOC certification" as you said is akin to PAF force. No need to raise the certification word to square!

Oh and gift to you to derive these dates directly from the manufacturer :
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - JF-17 Thunder Aircraft

 

[Zarvan]

Oh! OK, mate, got that! Part of the bug is then your use of FOC which is what I was trying to outline.
If you mean **** FOC of BLOCK 1, it got that de facto in December as the last of these rolled off the
assembly line since production of the Block2 begun on the 18th Dec. 2014 although the date could be
also that of induction to active service of that last aircraft so a couple weeks ago.
If you meant FOC of any block as in the US meaning, it will get that when the last ever gets delivered?

In any case, FOC is delivered by the PAF.

You seem to be confusing introduction of new capabilities with FOC. By that count, the Mirage are then
not yet FOC since you are still upgrading them. Is that clearer?

Tay.

P.S. "FOC certification" as you said is akin to PAF force. No need to raise the certification word to square!

Oh and gift to you to derive these dates directly from the manufacturer :
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - JF-17 Thunder Aircraft

5 BLOCK II were supposed to come IN DECEMBER 2014 according to Air Chief during his visit to IDEX 2014 where are those 5 BLOCK II ?

 

[Taygibay]

That is an entirely different story, Zarvan mate. The Block 2s have been in production since 2013.
Air Marshal Ahmad said this month in his last interview early December :
Pakistan looks to boost military export with revamped JF-17 | Pakistan Today
so that normally, at a rate of 16 per year, there should be 5 + 2-3 = 7-8 already arrived to PAF by now.

The question becomes how fast the armament engineers clear these for use by squadrons proper.
It being a new Block it may take a couple months especially if the differences warrant a re-write of the way to use them and the ensuing qualification of pilots.

Again, I am not the best person to answer you on this. For an error-free answer, you'd really have
to wait for a qualified Pakistani member to come around.

Have a good day both and all, Tay.

 

[IrbiS]

Thanks.. Though I do remember that till a couple years back, JF 17 was not yet integrated with BVRs and a lot of avionic improvements were still WIP. And it wasnt FOCed till then. Just wanted to know which year it got its FOC certification and which PAF/Pakistani agency did the honors.

The question becomes how fast the armament engineers clear these for use by squadrons proper.
It being a new Block it may take a couple months especially if the differences warrant a re-write of the way to use them and the ensuing qualification of pilots.

Well it's difficult to answer the way Shrivastav is asking. It's operational with 2 squadrons and recently arrived at CCS which is our Top Gun equivalent. They are flying the jets wholeheartedly and it's been QRA Qualified for a long time now. Weapon testing and integration is underway and Pakistan has full authority and access to the source code. Our own guys can integrate anything they want. But don't expect a press release for each individual weapon qualification or any other thing of that nature

 

[Zarvan]

That is an entirely different story, Zarvan mate. The Block 2s have been in production since 2013.
Air Marshal Ahmad said this month in his last interview early December :
Pakistan looks to boost military export with revamped JF-17 | Pakistan Today
so that normally, at a rate of 16 per year, there should be 5 + 2-3 = 7-8 already arrived to PAF by now.

The question becomes how fast the armament engineers clear these for use by squadrons proper.
It being a new Block it may take a couple months especially if the differences warrant a re-write of the way to use them and the ensuing qualification of pilots.

Again, I am not the best person to answer you on this. For an error-free answer, you'd really have
to wait for a qualified Pakistani member to come around.

Have a good day both and all, Tay.

@Horus Is this guy right ?

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Well it's difficult to answer the way Shrivastav is asking. It's operational with 2 squadrons and recently arrived at CCS which is our Top Gun equivalent. They are flying the jets wholeheartedly and it's been QRA Qualified for a long time now. Weapon testing and integration is underway and Pakistan has full authority and access to the source code. Our own guys can integrate anything they want. But don't expect a press release for each individual weapon qualification or any other thing of that nature

Sorry if I am asking a wrong question. I understand that JF 17 is in operational status at this time. However it entered that status long before everything got integrated. I remember when the 1st squadron was raised in 2010 (I think), it could not fire BVR missiles and had very basic avionics. That was the time Pakistan had tried to source French avionics but the deal got scuttled due to Indian pressure. So the question is still the same. All new platforms go thru IOC and FOC formally. When did JF 17 go thru these two? And was it in China or in Pakistan