JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Anony]

What PAF needed was a multirole,home grown,cost effective and medium tech fighter to replace Mairages,A-5s and F-7s thats why JF-17 was slected and it's really impressive fighter and it's range and speed of Upgrades are much more than J-10 series…
and PAF needed light-medium multurole jet while J-10 falls in different category…
speed of uogrades on JFT is indeed impressive as it is using HUD with Digital FBW with HMD and PT-04 achieved speed of mach 2.0 with increase of 0.3 tones payload and also increase in service ceiling so we can expect a great blast in block 2 with Increase in payload,service ceiling,speed,IFR(probably),during flight refuling system and improved radars and avionics………
its AOA is pretty impressive……
I hope that we can see more use of composites on block 2……

As far as FBW is concerned, I have read the reports and it is not complete FBW system. Anyways , if other reports of achieving speed of Mach 2.0 with increased load of 0.3 ton is true, then it's really impressive. But I would request you to provide link for this as I have not heard anything about it.

And compared it to J-10 is simply not accepted. Multi-role word in itself is vague. It's about the overall capability of a fighter in achieving different tasks. And J-10 is way ahead of Jf-17.

And do you have any official link(not wiki) stating ITR, STR, AoA,etc capability of Jf-17. If yes, please provide it to me.

 

[monitor]

How JF-17 weapons load can be increase ?

 

[IceCold]

As far as FBW is concerned, I have read the reports and it is not complete FBW system. Anyways , if other reports of achieving speed of Mach 2.0 with increased load of 0.3 ton is true, then it's really impressive. But I would request you to provide link for this as I have not heard anything about it.

And compared it to J-10 is simply not accepted. Multi-role word in itself is vague. It's about the overall capability of a fighter in achieving different tasks. And J-10 is way ahead of Jf-17.

And do you have any official link(not wiki) stating ITR, STR, AoA,etc capability of Jf-17. If yes, please provide it to me.

May i ask you to read Sancho's comment on the highlighted part. There is something known as wet stations, J-10 does not offer anything significant over JF-17 in that area.

 

[Sinnerman108]

How JF-17 weapons load can be increase ?

by

a. increase the wing area (lift area)
b. Increase the Engine thrust.

 

[fatman17]

Please elaborate?

not my quote please. i'm also asking....

 

[INDIAISM]

Most people on this thread, including the last couple of posters, are blowing out of their A$$ and do not know $hit about the status of the JF17 program. Keep in mind that status of LCA as well as MRCA programs has given PAF some breathing space and there is no need to run around like headless chickens.

Delay in MMRCA Deal and LCA Project would have given PAF a breathing space if India wouldn't have placed order for 135 fighter Jet {90 Su30 Mki + 45 Mig 29K} during that period and then not to forget upgradation of Mig29 and Miraage 2K5 which will add punch to IAF...

 

[fatman17]

KEY : "As far as manufacturing tempo is concerned," noted the air commodore, "we are matching the retirement tempo of the air force's older types, regulating the induction of JF-17s according to the air force's demands."

 

[Bossman]

Delay in MMRCA Deal and LCA Project would have given PAF a breathing space if India wouldn't have placed order for 135 fighter Jet {90 Su30 Mki + 45 Mig 29K} during that period and then not to forget upgradation of Mig29 and Miraage 2K5 which will add punch to IAF...

You can write whatever you want but the fact is that IAF squadron strength is at historical low and retirement of Mig 21s has been delayed. The bigger issue with IAF is that it's training regime has been compromised as it does not have and haven't had for few years an ab-initio primary trainer or a decent basic/intermediary trainer. IAF is short of pilots and it's procurement and upgrade plans are a mess. All this gives PAF a lot of breathing space.

 

[INDIAISM]

You can write whatever you want but the fact is that IAF squadron strength is at historical low and retirement of Mig 21s has been delayed. The bigger issue with IAF is that it's training regime has been compromised as it does have and haven't had for few year an ab-ignition primary trainer or a decent basic/intermediary trainer. IAF is short of pilots and it's procurement and upgrade plans are a mess. All this gives PAF a lot of breathing space.

I can't about the pilot training as i am not expert in that but as far as IAF squadron strength is concern then Yes i agree with you that Squadron strength of IAF is at all time low but you also have to see the otherside of the coin that is that capability of IAF fighter jet is at all time high...
What i mean is that Weapon carrying capacity of 500 Mig21 and 100 Mig27 is 1450 tons and on the other hand weapon carrying capacity of even 270 ''Flanker-H'' is 2160 Tons...


Secondly, fighter like Mig27 and Jaguar needs Mig 21 or Mig29 to escort them as they can't defend themselves and on the other hand ''Flanker-H'' is a multirole jet which can bomb the enemy and can defend itself from enemy fighter jets...


Thirdly, ''Flanker-H'' has a Range of 3000 Km and with the use of IFR Probe it Range increases to 8000 Km..So it can Take Off from North East Bomb its Target in Enemy Territory and come back to its base in North East without landing anywhere...


I didn't wanted to turn this thread into Sukhoi V/s PAF thread but i didn't had any other option...Think practicaly you will realise that with jets like FGFA,Rafale and Tejas Mk2 being in the waiting list of IAF if PAF Babu's didn't wake up in time then PAF will find itself Out Gunned and Outclassed by IAF by 2022-25...

 

[bigzgvr4]

I can't about the pilot training as i am not expert in that but as far as IAF squadron strength is concern then Yes i agree with you that Squadron strength of IAF is at all time low but you also have to see the otherside of the coin that is that capability of IAF fighter jet is at all time high...
What i mean is that Weapon carrying capacity of 500 Mig21 and 100 Mig27 is 1450 tons and on the other hand weapon carrying capacity of even 270 Su 30Mki is 2160 Tons...


Secondly, fighter like Mig27 and Jaguar needs Mig 21 or Mig29 to escort them as they can't defend themselves and on the other hand Su 30Mki is a multirole jet which can bomb the enemy and can defend itself from enemy fighter jets...

WOW i did'nt know india had "270" mki's thats news to mee or even 500 migs 21

any way back to topic I think pAF should partner up to make jet engines or BUY a TOT For its Jf-17 thats is the best bet and it will give them considerable Advantage because right now Pakistans produces weapons that requires engines but not the engine it self

I THrowing it out their as South africa korea or Ukraine or other countries like sweden etc that are friendly except RUSSIA< USA<BRITIAN
this move will also help china too to gain technical edge for their engines see what they are missing

 

[araz]

WOW i did'nt know india had "270" mki's thats news to mee or even 500 migs 21

any way back to topic I think pAF should partner up to make jet engines or BUY a TOT For its Jf-17 thats is the best bet and it will give them considerable Advantage because right now Pakistans produces weapons that requires engines but not the engine it self

I THrowing it out their as South africa korea or Ukraine or other countries like sweden etc that are friendly except RUSSIA< USA<BRITIAN
this move will also help china too to gain technical edge for their engines see what they are missing

As you may have noticed from the failed Indian attempts and the inconclusive results of the various Chinese ventures, engine technology is not easy to come by. You need advanced metallurgy and expertise in other fields which we dont have. If you think Russia will give you the engine technology you are gravely mistaken. Your only bet maybe Ukraine or China but even then the cost qould be unaffordable. The befter thing might be simple overhaul service which may have been discussed at the last meeting between PAF and the russian guests.
Araz

 

[bigzgvr4]

As you may have noticed from the failed Indian attempts and the inconclusive results of the various Chinese ventures, engine technology is not easy to come by. You need advanced metallurgy and expertise in other fields which we dont have. If you think Russia will give you the engine technology you are gravely mistaken. Your only bet maybe Ukraine or China but even then the cost qould be unaffordable. The befter thing might be simple overhaul service which may have been discussed at the last meeting between PAF and the russian guests.
Araz

russian tech is not that good i mean look at how many crashes IAF had Syria is getting blown to pieces all they have is russian hardware and Indian home made engine failed but General ELectric Came to rescue and gave them the TOT for the same engine which Gripen Used and achieved Supercruise But LCA failed (i guess Design Flaws on the aerodynamics) I mean we can buy Same thing From FRANCE since their are no sanctions or even Sweden or Ukraine which will also Help China Gain Technical Advantange in their Engine Department given these Countries are willing to ToT and The Money problem can be solved by using Some of that War on TERROR AID money From the USA to fianace these projects its definatley do able

 

[Bossman]

Pp

I can't about the pilot training as i am not expert in that but as far as IAF squadron strength is concern then Yes i agree with you that Squadron strength of IAF is at all time low but you also have to see the otherside of the coin that is that capability of IAF fighter jet is at all time high...
What i mean is that Weapon carrying capacity of 500 Mig21 and 100 Mig27 is 1450 tons and on the other hand weapon cparrying capacity of even 270 Su 30Mki is 2160 Tons...


Secondly, fighter like Mig27 and Jaguar needs Mig 21 or Mig29 to escort them as they can't defend themselves and on the other hand Su 30Mki is a multirole jet which can bomb the enemy and can defend itself from enemy fighter jets...

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Pp

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

The days of close dogfights are gone. It is the BVR era now. Longer reach wins.

 

[Glitcher]

Pp

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

dont forget the SAM's bro

Pp

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

dont forget the SAM's bro

Pp

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

dont forget the SAM's bro