JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[BATMAN]

 

[Dil Pakistan]

rd-93 is a good engine compared to f7 and mirage engines (aircraft its replacing), the problem lies with thrust and ab thrust which is GReater then 2 lb for each lb of thrust generated, compared to western engines like ge or even al-31 (1.7 or 1.8 lb/lb in ab wand .67lb /lb in dry thrust)which is less then 2 lb per lb of thrust. Tbo has been improved but not near western engines, but its 1/2 the prices of any western engine too. So cannot have it both ways. I think best way is to improve internal fuel capacity of if-17 from current 2330 kg to say 2700-2800 kg like mirage 5 or other fighters in the class if it is some how possible, ie better fuel fraction, with external tanks it fuel load is good.

I am a civilian, however, even in my limited understanding, the speed and thrust matter (and are related) to the role in which a fighter jet operates and is expected to operate.

JF-17 is expected to operate in defensive and supportive roles.

Are the thrust and speed really that paramount ? (as opposed to F-16 or even future FC-20 which are expected to carry deep strike roles).

 

[DARKY]

Arsalan you are forgetting RD-93 issues with such load configuration.

What most people here is not considering is that the load is just not about weight but additional drag.. caused due to extra weapons.. and things like drop tanks... while most people consider the drop tanks along 4 BVRs along with 2 WVRs a good configuration must understand that without proper ECM pod and jammers all 4 BVRs are a waste against enemy like IAF... no I am not praising IAF here.

Besides RD-33 has been quiet reliable for its 1st 220 hrs... however engine shut down is an issue with the engine... I'd love to have an detail insight of the JF-17 crash accident.. and not the Bird story incident.

 

[TaimiKhan]

What most people here is not considering is that the load is just not about weight but additional drag.. caused due to extra weapons.. and things like drop tanks... while most people consider the drop tanks along 4 BVRs along with 2 WVRs a good configuration must understand that without proper ECM pod and jammers all 4 BVRs are a waste against enemy like IAF... no I am not praising IAF here.

Besides RD-33 has been quiet reliable for its 1st 220 hrs... however engine shut down is an issue with the engine... I'd love to have an detail insight of the JF-17 crash accident.. and not the Bird story incident.

Darky, why do you bring in non sense without giving it a thought ??

Had RD-93s been such a prb after 220hrs, then why just a single crash in 10,000 sorties ?? And these 10,000 sorties reached with JF-17s in PAF service, they must have done many hundreds or thousands while in testing stage in China. The 10,000 sortie figure reached last year and disclosed during the Dubai Air Show, and its nearly a year since then, Pt-06 & Pt-04 flying in China with RD-93 and making regular sorties, then you have near to 40-50 JF-17s in Pakistan doing hundreds of sorties per month with the RD-93s. Don't these figures give you an idea that RD-93s are not performing as bad as they might have performed with IAF service or other Air Forces around the world. And even if the 1 air crash was due to engine issue, its still not a bad record by keeping in view the 10,000+ sorties or flying hours with more then 2 dozen of these jets.

So RD-93s are going fine for us so far and PAF is much happy with it when compared to the turbo jet engines on F-7s & Mirages. Its the 2nd best turbo fan engine with PAF after what F-16s have.

So we are ok with what we have and they are performing above then expectations with JF-17s.

 

[INDIAISM]

What most people here is not considering is that the load is just not about weight but additional drag.. caused due to extra weapons.. and things like drop tanks... while most people consider the drop tanks along 4 BVRs along with 2 WVRs a good configuration must understand that without proper ECM pod and jammers all 4 BVRs are a waste against enemy like IAF... no I am not praising IAF here.

Besides RD-33 has been quiet reliable for its 1st 220 hrs... however engine shut down is an issue with the engine... I'd love to have an detail insight of the JF-17 crash accident.. and not the Bird story incident.

Buddy main problem is not Rd93 Engine...Actual problem is what other option they have other then Rd93.....and that to some extent is the biggest advantage of PAF and Jf17.....I mean they know that they have limited budget and limited options so they don't think twice for going for those options....

They needed replacement for their vintage aircrafts and they new only Jf17 fits into that option and see they have already replaced around 50 vintage jets with jf17......


And on the other hand we have so many options that it is taking alot of time of us to decide atlast what should we chose....MMRCA deal,New Engine for LCA Mk2,Induction of LCA in IAF...

End result we are still struggling to replace vintage fleet in our Airforce inventory....

 

[Najam Khan]

What most people here is not considering is that the load is just not about weight but additional drag.. caused due to extra weapons.. and things like drop tanks... while most people consider the drop tanks along 4 BVRs along with 2 WVRs a good configuration must understand that without proper ECM pod and jammers all 4 BVRs are a waste against enemy like IAF... no I am not praising IAF here.

If you are placing a smaller package of JF-17 (operating independently) in such scenario then this statement is fairly reasonable. But if you think along the lines of network centric way of war, you'll get your answer.

...I hope this discussion does not escalate to same IAF vs PAF.

 

[graphican]

Guys,

I have never seen an image of JF-17 with guns visible. Where are its guns located?

Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


___

10 mins later
___

Found it

 

[Last Hope]

On the exact right of the yellow circle, you would see the cannon.

 

[Manticore]

I reckon High resolution pictures of JF-17 thread discussed the jft gun

 

[Fanling Monk]

This baby is already here in China's Zhuhai Airshow from November 13-18, 2012.

 

[khanasifm]

This is actual pic of rd-93 with gearbox and accessories at the bottom

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/RD-93.gif

 

[fatman17]

If you are placing a smaller package of JF-17 (operating independently) in such scenario then this statement is fairly reasonable. But if you think along the lines of network centric way of war, you'll get your answer.

...I hope this discussion does not escalate to same IAF vs PAF.

dont bet on it!!!

 

[Fanling Monk]

巴基斯坦空军枭龙战机将再次亮相珠海航展


中国航展珠海执委会28日下午宣布，继中国空军“八一”飞行表演队、欧洲“百年灵”喷气机特技飞行表演队、俄罗斯“勇士”特技飞行表演队将在今年11月在珠海举行的中国航展上演“空中芭蕾”外，巴基斯坦空军也将派“枭龙”战斗机在航展上空一展雄风。

　　在珠海举办的中国航展，是国内目前唯一有飞行表演的专业展会。“在本届航展上，除世界各国飞机制造商和运营商带来的多款军、民用新式飞机将进行性能展示飞行外，多支世界一流的特技飞行表演队也将给现场观众奉献更为精彩的表演。”珠海航展有限公司李意辉说。

　　据了解，已确定参加本届航展的中国空军“八一”飞行表演队，将驾驶先进的歼10战鹰，生动再现“魔鬼编队”的惊险刺激。在阔别中国航展6年后，全球唯一一支使用重型战斗机进行表演的俄罗斯空军“勇士”特技飞行表演队将在珠海上空进行9场次5机编队飞行表演，带给观众全新的震撼。首次来华献技的瑞士“百年灵”喷气机特技飞行表演队，将由清一色的法国空军和“法兰西巡逻兵”特技飞行表演队的退役飞行员驾机组成7机编队，带给观众惊心动魄的视觉享受。

　　截至目前，已有超过90架飞行器实物确定参加本届航展，备受关注的神舟九号飞船返回舱也将在航展现场亮相。


Google Translate:


The Xiaolong aircraft (J-17 Thunder) of Pakistan Air Force will again be unveiled in Zhuhai Airshow

China Air Show Zhuhai Executive Committee announced on the afternoon of the 28th, following the Chinese Air Force "August" flight demonstration team, Europe Breitling jet aerobatics team, the Russian "Warriors" aerobatics team in November of this year, held in ZhuhaiChina air show staged aerial ballet, the Pakistan air Force will also send the "Fierce Dragon" fighter in the air show over to show their glory.

Held in Zhuhai Airshow China, is currently the only professional exhibition flight performances. "At this air show, in addition to a variety of military, civilian world aircraft manufacturers and operators to bring new aircraft flight performance show, the multivessel world-class aerobatics team will also give audience to dedicate more brilliant performances. Zhuhai Airshow Co., Ltd. Li Yi-hui said.

It is understood, has determined that the Chinese Air Force to participate in this air show, "August" flight demonstration team, the driving state-of-the-art F-10 fighting eagles vividly the thrills of the "devil formation. The screenings 9 5 aircraft formation aerobatic aerobatics team of the Russian Air Force after an absence of six years of Airshow China, the world's only one use of heavy fighter performing "Warriors" over in Zhuhai, to bring the audience a new shock. In China for the first time the audience in the Swiss Breitling jet aerobatics team, by all the French Air Force and "France patrols" aerobatics team of retired pilots flew up 7 plane formation, bringing the audience thrilling visual experience.

So far, more than 90 aircraft in kind to identify the participants in this air show concern spacecraft Shenzhou Nine return capsule will also be unveiled in the air show site.


.............

Following the Chinese Air Force "August" flight demonstration team, the European "Breitling jet aerobatic demonstration team, the Russian" Warriors "aerobatics team staged in November this year at Airshow China in Zhuhai aerial ballet, Pakistan Air Force will also send Xiaolong (F-17) fighter air show over to show Endowment. (Translated from original by Google)

 

[Fanling Monk]

Self deleted (sorry wrong thread)

 

[Fanling Monk]

Self deleted (Sorry wrong thread)