JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[SQ8]

Question to Oscar,

i have heard we have put a lot of effort in this radar and are working on more modes of what is possibly an upgrade to the current KLJ-7 inhouse. I know not much can be revealed but is there any truth in this news? I have heard it twice now.

Last I heard.. the KLJ-7 is to be updated with SAR in house..or rather the mode improved further.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Then what could be the solution for Rafales and MKI? I have been asking this ever since I joined this forum. I have been to F16.net and tried several different sources to see what comparable options do we have but could not get any satisfactory answer. Just my curiosity.

F-16s, J-10s & JF-17s.

nd hopefully a 5th gen fighter in the future.

And why are you making MKIs & rafales as invincible ??

 

[Armstrong]

Then what could be the solution for Rafales and MKI? I have been asking this ever since I joined this forum. I have been to F16.net and tried several different sources to see what comparable options do we have but could not get any satisfactory answer. Just my curiosity.

In my noobish way I'd assume the following :

• JF-17s armed with the SD-10Bs.
• Long and Medium Range SAMs perhaps something even better than the SPADA and the later acquisition of the HQ-18 or better yet the HQ-19 !
• Battle Field Ballistic Missile to be used to target their FOBs !
• Our different indigenously produced cruise missile and glide-bombs for the JF-17s or the Mirages to again target their FOBs !
• Future acquisitions of the J-10s and perhaps even a 5th Generation Aircraft !
• Our F-16s armed with their goodies !
• And most importantly - Diplomacy and on-going Confidence Building Measures to ensure that we never actually go to war !
  
  

I would think that all of that would make the Indian Su-30s and the Rafaels think countless times before entering into Pakistani Air Space !

 

[Farooqi1]

F-16s, J-10s & JF-17s.

nd hopefully a 5th gen fighter in the future.

And why are you making MKIs & rafales as invincible ??

Khan Sahib:

Just been realistic. Doesn't want to overestimate our capabilities and neither want to underestimate their capabilities. And realistic neutral knowledge of our combat history.

In my noobish way I'd assume the following :

• JF-17s armed with the SD-10Bs.
• Long and Medium Range SAMs perhaps something even better than the SPADA and the later acquisition of the HQ-18 or better yet the HQ-19 !
• Battle Field Ballistic Missile to be used to target their FOBs !
• Our different indigenously produced cruise missile and glide-bombs for the JF-17s or the Mirages to again target their FOBs !
• Future acquisitions of the J-10s and perhaps even a 5th Generation Aircraft !
• Our F-16s armed with their goodies !
• And most importantly - Diplomacy and on-going Confidence Building Measures to ensure that we never actually go to war !
  
  

I would think that all of that would make the Indian Su-30s and the Rafaels think countless times before entering into Pakistani Air Space !

Only if we could make the possibility of war disappear. What is worried me the most is our water resources being hostage by them and with global warming going on, water resources would be more scarce and as per one analysis this could alone would be cause of the next big conflict. The more powerful, united and economically stable (wishful thinking) we would be, less chances of some one twisting our arms.

 

[sancho]

Some how we need to make JF-17 as potent as Grippen or better.

Why, only because it is the indigenous fighter? It's meant to be the low cost and low end fighter of PAF, which will form a good multi role base in credible numbers, isn't that enough? Bringing it to Gripen level makes it way more costly too and that's not what PAF plans with it, they are looking for J10s for the upper side of the fleet and depending on the final specs it can be a good one too.

 

[Edevelop]

Why, only because it is the indigenous fighter? It's meant to be the low cost and low end fighter of PAF, which will form a good multi role base in credible numbers, isn't that enough? Bringing it to Gripen level makes it way more costly too and that's not what PAF plans with it, they are looking for J10s for the upper side of the fleet and depending on the final specs it can be a good one too.

JF-17 is supposed to be low cost but how low?

Block 1 was $15 Million and now... Block 2 is for $25 million. Air force officials even said that there will be a Block 3. Surely the price just keeps increasing and as it does so, JF-17 will become better than Gripen...

 

[Farooqi1]

JF-17 is supposed to be low cost but how low?

Block 1 was $15 Million and now... Block 2 is for $25 million. Air force officials even said that there will be a Block 3. Surely the price just keeps increasing and as it does so, JF-17 will become better than Gripen...

Inshallaha my man, Inshallaha. All we need resolve and sincerity

 

[Farooqi1]

Why, only because it is the indigenous fighter? It's meant to be the low cost and low end fighter of PAF, which will form a good multi role base in credible numbers, isn't that enough? Bringing it to Gripen level makes it way more costly too and that's not what PAF plans with it, they are looking for J10s for the upper side of the fleet and depending on the final specs it can be a good one too.

War and cost effectiveness doesn't go together. Similarly war toys and cost effectiveness also would not go together. Personally I am not in favor of JF-17 as it is. What JF-17 gives us is our freedom from US and West crap of sanctions though. From pure defensive point of view I don't believe JF-17 would do the job in its current capability. So if we are producing them then why not go for as much improvements as possible. Off course I am not expecting it to be a $100 million plane. Also it would be good for export market too.

 

[abaseen99]

April 23, the aircraft industry to fly into the successful completion of the Inspection of 06 aircraft and 200 hours after the first flight of the "Fierce Dragon", which is the "Fierce Dragon" 06 aircraft this year's open fly for the first time. The picture shows the fly into the flight test station staff work closely with the collaboration node to complete the preparatory work before flying.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

Brothers, there have been fresh rumors about JF-17 and its weapons. I am not sure if they are true but rumors from certain sources have proved to be true in the past.

1. All SD-10A missiles will be upgraded to SD-10B standard
2. PAF has also received some SD-10B
3. Additional SD-10B will be delivered after PLAAF receives them
4. SD-10B version has key R&D inputs from PAF
5. Block-II will receive a new radar, and all earlier versions will be upgraded with this new radar. Current radar may not be able to support SD-10B which PAF has decided to use as standard weapon.
6. New radar willmay be equipped with a rotating plate(Swash plate) Could it be an AESA similar to Sweedish Gripen NG radar
7. The new radar will be a true and completely multi-functional
8. Small Diameter Bombs are being tested by FC-1 06 for use on JF-17 currently
9. PAC Kamra is expanding and will be able to meet maximum production
10.

Courtesy- Sir pshamim

 

[Farooqi1]

Courtesy- Sir pshamim

Could some technically capable brother do a FRESH comparison between Current BlockII JF-17 with all the improvements above with Grippen Ng or whatever model is in the market. I would appreciate it. The old debate between Grippen and JF17 is I believe outdated. And please do not be irritated with my stupid questions please.......Even though I am trying hard to irritate the hell out of you specially the senior members.

 

[fatman17]

JF-17 is supposed to be low cost but how low?

Block 1 was $15 Million and now... Block 2 is for $25 million. Air force officials even said that there will be a Block 3. Surely the price just keeps increasing and as it does so, JF-17 will become better than Gripen...

so blk-1 is 15m-20m
blk-2 will be 25m-30m
blk-3 will be 35-40m

still cheap in comparison to current 4th or 4.4gn aircraft which start at 80m and above (238m for a F-22)

 

[Farooqi1]

so blk-1 is 15m-20m
blk-2 will be 25m-30m
blk-3 will be 35-40m

still cheap in comparison to current 4th or 4.4gn aircraft which start at 80m and above (238m for a F-22)

$35 to $40 million would be a stretch but it would be worth it if we are planning to make it an air superior fighter as described in one of AbdulBariJan videos floating on YouTube. Stealth would be even better since from 2015 it would be a norm of any decent Air-Force around the world. But my first wish full thinking purely keeping exports in mind would be to make it a viable competitor (economical but effective alternative) of Grippen and F-16 .

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

jf-17 is a potent aircraft with all the abilities to develop and improve, don,t know why many people try to under estimate it by calling it low cost or gap filler.... what matters is how much it is potent to deliver to our requirements because here it has limited airspace to defend and don,t need very long range missiles even 80km is enough for Pakistani terrain. people need to understand such facts , some people raise fingers about why china is not adopting it , reason is china has vast terrain and need very long range aircraft and missile, thats not the case with PAkISTAN. su-30 is good fighter but in case of any engagement it is not gona benefit from 200km range because in war time distance is gona be less than 80km.....

 

[Najam Khan]

War and cost effectiveness doesn't go together. Similarly war toys and cost effectiveness also would not go together. Personally I am not in favor of JF-17 as it is. What JF-17 gives us is our freedom from US and West crap of sanctions though. From pure defensive point of view I don't believe JF-17 would do the job in its current capability. So if we are producing them then why not go for as much improvements as possible. Off course I am not expecting it to be a $100 million plane. Also it would be good for export market too.

The thing missing in your analysis is that you are comparing an undergoing development plane to already operational aircrafts. There is always the first step towards something…and the place where thunder stands now is nothing less than a miracle and great luck. Takeout the history of fighter plane development and see which hurdles they faced during development and when they became operational (leave out the night part) and what conditions/mission profiles they achieved in initial 10 years of their career. Lastly compare the milestones achieved by Thunder in similar case, you’ll get your answer.

Then what could be the solution for Rafales and MKI? I have been asking this ever since I joined this forum. I have been to F16.net and tried several different sources to see what comparable options do we have but could not get any satisfactory answer. Just my curiosity.

Sorry for being arrogant here, take a week break with posting and start reading. You need to read previous discussions before repeating them again. Following two threads might be useful. Goodluck!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/160130-how-paf-should-counter-su-30-mki.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/161591-counter-mmrca-strategy-paf.html