JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[muse]

The JF is going through a lot of milestones.. but that does not need to be highlighted every third day.

Why so defensive? What are you guys "defending now?- if indeed there are milestones being accomplished, WHY should we not be hearing, reading and see these?? If we don't get to have these highlighted, how are milestones to be recognized as milestones??

The ISPR or the PAF if they dont like making a fuss everytime a new screw is fit into the jet.

Making a "fuss" is the job description for a press/information office - Do you even know what you are "defending" anymore?

 

[SQ8]

Or more like in our eastern neighbour cum rival style , actually he might be more obsessed with our eastern neighbour cum rival style and expecting PAF to beat drums like they do before even a decade of signing a contract , or on even manufacturing an aircraft which is just on paper and will remain for atleast next decade

Lets not get into that in this thread..
The fact remains that the JF is progressing, we will not hear news clippings of it.. or commemorative cakes and pastries.
There will be little fanfare when it goes operational with a BVR missile or an LGB.
Its an aircraft designed for a serious role.. not a show for the world to demonstrate "progress".

 

[SQ8]

Why so defensive? What are you guys "defending now?- if indeed there are milestones being accomplished, WHY should we not be hearing, reading and see these?? If we don't get to have these highlighted, how are milestones to be recognized as milestones??



Making a "fuss" is the job description for a press/information office - Do you even know what you are "defending" anymore?

Defensive??
Your complaint itself is pointless.
What do you want? cheerleaders for the JF?
The PAF launching press releases for the JF every minor deal? Media briefings etc.

What defensive muse?? what are you looking to critique here that one should be defensive of? what are you critiquing in the first place that one should be prepared to defend.. the JF's marketing strategy, the PAF's PR problems or the oft repeated "the JF is a mistake" tagline?

 

[muse]

TO defend anything you must first have information - is that concept too difficult to understand? They not teach you people these kinds of complicated things??

Defend the incompetence of an information officer at war with the idea of information - I don't it will help you guys, it will only make you seem sillier, defend the idea of a information office at war with the idea of information.

 

[Mani2020]

TO defend anything you must first have information - is that concept too difficult to understand? They not teach you people these kinds of complicated things??

Defend the incompetence of an information officer at war with the idea of information - I don't it will help you guys, it will only make you seem sillier, defend the idea of a information office at war with the idea of information.

What was available was told , infact detailed interviews by Chinese and Pakistani officials after its first appearance, infact it has been participated in 3 major air-shows and the information is more important for the buyers than a general public which has been provided to the potential buyers infact every tid bit of it . What is the purpose of having a detailed program or detailed documentary for lay people who don't know even the ABC of aviation, for them an aircraft is made and they are happy with it, they even don't know about the generation stuff let alone the detailed information about an aircraft and for the defence enthusiast there are random news coming out from different sources and they are made public because the PAF wants it too otherwise they wouldn't have been. Detailed reports have been featured in multiple AFM editions . Now until and unless the next block is not revealed whats the purpose in continuously chirping the same old things?

 

[muse]

What was available was told

Then why keep these threads open? Mani, please think before you post . These threads are being kept open because people are keenly interested, not because some people have lost their confidence and have fallen back in to "defending" mode --- The interest demands more information - no one is asking for "secrets", however, an information office's entire job is to present a positive and detailed impression or image --- Why are PAF choosing to do the opposite??

Two possible answers -
1. The JFT sucks the big one and PAF want to hide this fact.
2. The Information office and in particular, the coordinators of the aircraft's publicity are ignorant of what publicity means

Like I said, if the information office cannot be motivated by the positive, lets see how they like the negative

 

[Mani2020]

Then why keep these threads open? Mani, please think before you post . These threads are being kept open because people are keenly interested, not because some people have lost their confidence and have fallen back in to "defending" mode --- The interest demands more information - no one is asking for "secrets", however, an information office's entire job is to present a positive and detailed impression or image --- Why are PAF choosing to do the opposite??

Two possible answers -
1. The JFT sucks the big one and PAF want to hide this fact.
2. The Information office and in particular, the coordinators of the aircraft's publicity are ignorant of what publicity means

Like I said, if the information office cannot be motivated by the positive, lets see how they like the negative

MUSE i said that for lay people information doesn't mean much and for defence enthusiast there are things available like in case of AFM editions and interviews , what we discuss on these forums are the one we get form these sources, what we bring to these forums is the information gotten from other sources for the matter of sharing and discussing and to make people help out on the things they don't have much knowledge about .Many people on this forum are more interested about block-2 now ,as it is still under-development so i can't see the information to be out yet.by goinwith your notion not much info was revealed about J-20 before the day it made its first flight or the day after it so does this made it a junk? and all the info was available about a plane that is hanging around for 30 years and still not operational so that made it a super aircraft? And for publicity i don't think we are done with over needs , we still are coping with our needs which are to replace heavy numbers of obsolete aircrafts and i don't think we are in a position to export right now.

By the way participating in 3 major air shows wasn't that a publicity for you? or do you specifically want a television ad for that matter? and so far what has come from neutral sources doesn't show that jf-17 suck or is a sitting duck .

For a cash strapped country like Pakistan which is still unable to produce a local car, producing an aircraft is a big achievement though it was a JV but still not a small thing when countries in our neighbourhood are still struggling with that and the most technologically advanced countries are unable to produce aircrafts so are bound to import aircrafts from other countries.

Even at worst jf-17 still is better than the aircrafts it is going to replace and at a cost which is affordable for the country .

 

[muse]

Mani

When I log in to the forum, and I think for the majority it's the same, the first thing I do and have done since JFT became real, is to check what's nuz with regard to the JFT, is there a new picture? Who said what or heard what.

And yes the air show stuff was great - I realize you are not following the position, but see if this makes sense to you, if a information office cannot be bothered to create a more positive image, then it cannot complain about the emergence of the opposite - that is the freaking job of an information office -- BTW, do you really think the images of J10, FC1 and J20 that appear as taken by enthusiasts, do you really think those are "unofficial" ???

PAF is thus far the only operator of this aircraft, if they cannot be bothered to be saying JFT's the best thing since sliced bread and since PAF last said that a week ago, then they cannot complain that people begin thinking all kinds of things.

 

[fatman17]

.....we have to admit that the 'marketing' of our armed forces is below average. they shd hire some MBA's, train them as officers for a few months and then let them rip....but MBA's dont come cheap.....so that is why ISPR is where it is!

as far as JFT goes, its is going good - CAS evaluation is complete. it is undergoing Air-2-Air evaluation. that will also come good and the pictures people want to see a BVR loaded JFT will be released. meanwhile a lot of stuff has been written on the JFT (mainly foreign press) as our local press basically 'stinks' in defence related matters.

 

[unicorn]

muse

You have nothing to offer in this thread muse.

 

[muse]

.....we have to admit that the 'marketing' of our armed forces is below average. they shd hire some MBA's, train them as officers for a few months and then let them rip....but MBA's dont come cheap.....so that is why ISPR is where it is!

as far as JFT goes, its is going good - CAS evaluation is complete. it is undergoing Air-2-Air evaluation. that will also come good and the pictures people want to see a BVR loaded JFT will be released. meanwhile a lot of stuff has been written on the JFT (mainly foreign press) as our local press basically 'stinks' in defence related matters.

And it seems to me that this is an excellent opportunity to build a brand, if you will -- readers around the world are some what familiar with the opaqueness of Chinese writings on the subject, not just because of the language of course - and of course these officers need not be MBA's, they do however, have to understand what the basics of information office and being an information officer are -- being against the idea of using information to one's advantage by actually disseminating it, would be less thasn ideal grounding, I think.

So back to the building a brand and disseminating information to one's advantage, seems to me, to be closely related propositions.

 

[lutfishah]

Hi guys,

Just saw this program yesterday and thought I can share it with all of you.
This is a 32 min video but JF 17 Part comes at the beginning.

Jf 17 new squadron has the air to air refueling capability??
Pakistan's own air defence system n can shoot down drones very easily if there is a political wil.

 

[lutfishah]

I also see Pakistani pilots flying jets from the Aircraft carrier ship???? Its a quiet old clip......

 

[SBD-3]

And it seems to me that this is an excellent opportunity to build a brand, if you will -- readers around the world are some what familiar with the opaqueness of Chinese writings on the subject, not just because of the language of course - and of course these officers need not be MBA's, they do however, have to understand what the basics of information office and being an information officer are -- being against the idea of using information to one's advantage by actually disseminating it, would be less thasn ideal grounding, I think.

So back to the building a brand and disseminating information to one's advantage, seems to me, to be closely related propositions.

But sir, defence branding can not be done like an FMCG. For example, just take a look at SAAB's website, filled with promotional material. But in defence more things matter than just marketing oneself. While i rank SAAB's web higher than others (perhaps LMCO is another one) but how many sales have they been able to make? The defence products are a class apart from other products, for having good military sales, there are a host of factors considered than just mere product.For example, A russian ally will never go for Falcon or Eagle, no matter you hire MBAs from Wharton or Harvard to market the product to them. US will not Sell F-22 no matter how much the allies are willing to pay for it. It does not work that way.
Secondly, ISPR is an interlink between military and civil society. Its not ment for marketing the products, but the promotion of armed forces image and communication with civilians. Its usually a political decision and for that I think foreign services and military attache's should be more active than ISPR hiring MBAs

 

[muse]

I'm delighted someone has picked up on the issue of "branding" -- I was here, referring to branding "information" --- You will note that when we are reviewing information about Western aircraft or missiles or artillery or tanks or ships, we tend to regard that information as "authoritative" and generally "true" - the important lesson here is that the quality of information itself is a brand, this is why I mentioned the opaque quality of Chinese writings on the JFT - we therefore have an opportunity to create credibility and authoritative information about this aircraft and the "experience" of this aircraft - if we can do this successfully, that is to say by disseminating authoritative information about this aircraft, it capabilities and the "experience" of this aircraft, this to say the human elements that motivate, that inspire, people, well, then I think we can be seen as a providing information that will be in much demand.