JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[farhan_9909]

i'm really confused .. what are you trying to say?


i would go with m2k over mig29 any day

paf did check out both m2k and mig29 before selecting f16

Well i dnt think M2K is as manuverible as the Mig 29 is.

 

[Storm Force]

PAF needs to step into the 21st century Notorius

The most agile fighters in PAF are the F16 A/B built for WVR combat.

MODERN WAREFARE as pointed out by FARHAN in earlier post is MORE about bvr & multi role capability

THE BLOCK 52s that PAF has acquired are heavier than the F16/A/B and would lose a WVR engagment.

WHAT GOOD is agility on JFT if its picked up and engaged at 100km by a MMRCA SU30MKI OR MIG29K/SMT.

Between JFT and upgraded mirage2000_5 of indian air force my money would be on the indian fighter every time.

reason RC400 radar, mica bvr and french electronics versis SD10 and klj radar. (didnt PAF want the rc400/mica) for JFT anyway.

HAS FOR LCA ONLY JUST INDUCTED so cant say but again western technology on indian fighter including israeli elta radar and derby missle and dash 5 elbit HMS. Not to mention american engine. VERSIS russian engine rd93 and chinease weapons and radars.

my money goes to israel/usa combo ON TEJAS (much delayed but good choice in technology)

 

[Storm Force]

To date Pakistanis have sworn by American technology.

beating down Russian maintenance and reliability.

THIS IS ONE THING THE INDIANS GOT RIGHT they went for American /israeli tech in Tejas. this will be very crucial in future JFT ENGAGEMENT.

 

[Manticore]

WHAT GOOD is agility on JFT if its picked up and engaged at 100km by a MMRCA SU30MKI OR MIG29K/SMT.

you are assuming that sd10 will have lesser range and jft will not have awacs coverage

 

[nightcrawler]

In addition to Irfan Baloch impressive reply I must add that adequate attention is now being given to Fulcrum upgrades. Russians aren't going to just scrap away this lethal & effective beast so easily. Also the problem [not with Fulcrum] but with MIG Design Bureau is its inability to compete economically with Sukhoi. When countries are offered at the same price the Big Brother [SU-27/30] of MiG-29 they usually opt for the former!!

DefenceDog: MiG-29 Fulcrum Upgrades [2009 Onwards]

 

[TaimiKhan]

PAF needs to step into the 21st century Notorius

The most agile fighters in PAF are the F16 A/B built for WVR combat.

MODERN WAREFARE as pointed out by FARHAN in earlier post is MORE about bvr & multi role capability

THE BLOCK 52s that PAF has acquired are heavier than the F16/A/B and would lose a WVR engagment.

WHAT GOOD is agility on JFT if its picked up and engaged at 100km by a MMRCA SU30MKI OR MIG29K/SMT.

Between JFT and upgraded mirage2000_5 of indian air force my money would be on the indian fighter every time.

reason RC400 radar, mica bvr and french electronics versis SD10 and klj radar. (didnt PAF want the rc400/mica) for JFT anyway.

HAS FOR LCA ONLY JUST INDUCTED so cant say but again western technology on indian fighter including israeli elta radar and derby missle and dash 5 elbit HMS. Not to mention american engine. VERSIS russian engine rd93 and chinease weapons and radars.

my money goes to israel/usa combo ON TEJAS (much delayed but good choice in technology)

For your last 2 posts

 

[Tempest II]

Need engine with +92KN ( i calculated and if it has 92KN thrust then its T/w ratio is 1)

Klimov has granted you your wish. RD-93 max power output = 98kN!

 

[Manticore]

^^your pic was removed a couple of weeks back , tempest
http://dc318.*******.com/img/mi3wj5Kk/0.38660250883360403/rd93.JPG

 

[Tempest II]

Concerning F-16 radars: http://www.northropgrumman.com/farnborough/briefings/assets/2010-fas-f-16-radars-briefing.pdf

Looks like that presentation is to scale. On my PC the APG-68v9 bar is 292 pixels long and APG-68v7 is 225 pixels which is exactly 29.78% and roughly the 30% range increase quoted here: http://defense-update.com/products/a/apg68-v-9.htm and claimed by Nothrop. The APG-66v2/3 bar is 203 pixels. This gives the APG-68v9 44% more range than the APG-66s. The max look up range for the APG-66 is 89km and I will round that up to 90km. Now 90km x 1.44 = 129km so I will wound that up to 130km.

Now if you devide 130km for the APG-68 by 105km for the KLJ-7 you get 0.8077 = 80.77%. So this does agree to some extent with what the former Air Marshal is quoted saying, that the JF-17 has 80-86% capability of the latest F-16s.

From the same graph, the APG-80 will have a look-up range of 175km.

 

[Storm Force]

i Believe there are serveral; Radars in South Asia that WILL offer greater detection range in South Asia THAN THE jft blk1

APG 68 (9) 296 KM F16/52
Bars Pesa 300 km SU30MKI
Elta 2032 MMR 165KM TEJAS MK1
Rdy 160KM mirage2000
Zuk me 120km MIG29K MIG29SMT


Not sure what RCS are being used i suspect 5sq m +

 

[Tempest II]

You are not comparing the radars by the same yardstick. I don't believe the 296km for APG-68v9 is for 5sqm. It might actually be for vessels at sea. While the 125km for the Zhuk ME is for air-to-air against 5 sqm.

 

[Dazzler]

JFT

is a light weight fighter. Very limited range of chinease weapons and radar equally to early model Zhuk from russia.

F16 has 25% more thrust, massive weapons range and APG68 is a top range msa radar with twice range and processing speed.

JFT can defeat mig21 type fighters but would be over powered by bigger multi role platforms especially over enemy air space.

They will operate within PAK air space only.

THE F16 & FUTURE J10 WILL GO INTO ENEMY AIRSPACE ME THINKS

klj-7 compared with early zhuks?? Are you in your senses? You are growing more and more intelligent with each passing day !

 

[VelocuR]

Please ban Storm Force, nothing useful contribution to this forum. Waste of times.

Old repeating.

 

[Dazzler]

You are not comparing the radars by the same yardstick. I don't believe the 296km for APG-68v9 is for 5sqm. It might actually be for vessels at sea. While the 125km for the Zhuk ME is for air-to-air against 5 sqm.

Spot on, as per his analogy, BARS 300 km is not search but track range and its able to track every flying object at that range..Pathetic. Also, elta range given by him is wrong! its tracking range is less than that of klj-7 i.e. 50-60 NMs at best. He has a habit of exaggerating figures....

 

[Dazzler]

Check this for Elta 2032 ranges......

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/32359-jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-3-a-62.html