JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[abaseen99]

sub ko jishni azadi mubarak ho

 

[Dazzler]

Contrary to popular beflief, JFT saw the early light because of two reasons.

1. China already developed the more advanced J-10 and many existing technologies are similar in both. An example is the type 634 Quad fly by wire and radar.

2. PAF committed a dedicated and dynamic team of highly capable 35 engineers to combine their efforts with Chinese aeronautic expertise. The biggest evidence is the original S-7 and later emerged the JFT. The later was the brainchild of PAF who pushed Chinese to go further and further. Not many know that until the J-10b emerged, JFT had the most advanced MMI (Man Machine Interface) in any Chinese fighter plane.

 

[Danishwer]

My dear I also believe in reverse engineering cause r&d is need lot of money & technical menpower (and technology also) to make any thing new.

Can any one tell me why china can do the reverse engineering,
but why pakistan is not doing the same as chine do in any & every field.

can any one tell me does pakistan have the supercomputer, and if have it what is the specification or technical detail (not necessary in detail)

Im waiting for my answers.

Why im post about project 33, cause i read a discussion about the pakistani and indians that jf17 is based on the air frame of mig21 or f7. This is just a try to make clear to indians that it is based on the new airframe and technology which was built as counterpart of f16 but fortunately or unfortunately it was not completed.

 

[hataf]

My dear I also believe in reverse engineering cause r&d is need lot of money & technical menpower (and technology also) to make any thing new.

Can any one tell me why china can do the reverse engineering,
but why pakistan is not doing the same as chine do in any & every field.

can any one tell me does pakistan have the supercomputer, and if have it what is the specification or technical detail (not necessary in detail)

Im waiting for my answers.

Why im post about project 33, cause i read a discussion about the pakistani and indians that jf17 is based on the air frame of mig21 or f7. This is just a try to make clear to indians that it is based on the new airframe and technology which was built as counterpart of f16 but fortunately or unfortunately it was not completed.

Mr Danishwer . . . .

to know the real story. i think you should start reading posts from thread 1 of JFT . . . . ..
and after reading about those 6,000 posts, i am shore that you will have your answers, if not than come back and we will discuss . . . .

 

[MastanKhan]

My dear I also believe in reverse engineering cause r&d is need lot of money & technical menpower (and technology also) to make any thing new.

Can any one tell me why china can do the reverse engineering,
but why pakistan is not doing the same as chine do in any & every field.

can any one tell me does pakistan have the supercomputer, and if have it what is the specification or technical detail (not necessary in detail)

Im waiting for my answers.

Why im post about project 33, cause i read a discussion about the pakistani and indians that jf17 is based on the air frame of mig21 or f7. This is just a try to make clear to indians that it is based on the new airframe and technology which was built as counterpart of f16 but fortunately or unfortunately it was not completed.

Hi,

You have a difficult time understanding----machines that are used for killing---it does not make any difference who's designed it---. Your bottomline is does it do they do the job for you---and do you have the capability and ability in your limited resources to get and make the best out of two or three different systems.

China has thousands and thousands of PHD's---pakistan only a few and lots of them with fake degrees---. China has hundreds of world class laboratories---pakistan may only have maybe less than 5---.

Pakistan----there is no clue and concept of metallugical engr---if there is----there is no research capability---.

Pakistan is a very poor nation---it has very limited resources---if you live in pakistan---you ought to know your nations capabilities.

There is no place in pakistan that challenges the abilities and capabilities of young pakistani engineers.

People need to understand their shortcomings in the first place---when you understand where you stand---then you are conscious of your resources and capabilities and the directive you need to take.

Pakistanis are not consistent people---there is no stability in the life of pakistanis---. Why---because there is no stability in the pakistani govt. Onegovt comes up with one idea---then another comes in and wipes the slate clean and starts all over again---then the first one comes in and goes back to step one---.

It is a constant battle between political parties and pakistans industrial complex sufferes.

Pakistan doesnot have an industrial base---you know why---because for the first 50 years pakistan was ruled by fools---who wanted to develop the agriculture sector and not the engineering sector.

You want to know why they wanted to develop the agriculture sector---because it was easier to develop---for engineering---you really have to use your brain.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

We have "ratu baz engineers" I will study the same thing which my dad studied in engineering. We don't have practical experience. Hungarian friend of mine said, "Pakistanis are good when it comes to theoretical type study but they do not have practical experience." We can only produce thinkers and intellectuals if we change our grass root education system. We have many engineers but of no use since they do not have the ability to think in a different way. We reinvent the wheel many times in our class room but we don't have the capacity to invent anything/take new initiatives. People who can think in a different way either go abroad or have insufficient funds to do something constructive. The scholarly/great minds like Abdul Salam are kicked out of the country because of their faith. The person/group who gave fatwas against Dr. Salam should be lashed in public because we have all the right to ask those fanatics; it's fine if you kicked out a noble prize winner scientist but what did you give us in return? Your fatwas, society does not need it!

We have talent in Pakistan but we need a good education system at the grass level so we can produce inventors not ratue baz engineers. New born baby does not go to Harvard rather the students from the middle and high school go there. We need to improve our education system, can't emphasize more!

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

You have a difficult time understanding----machines that are used for killing---it does not make any difference who's designed it---. Your bottomline is does it do they do the job for you---and do you have the capability and ability in your limited resources to get and make the best out of two or three different systems.

China has thousands and thousands of PHD's---pakistan only a few and lots of them with fake degrees---. China has hundreds of world class laboratories---pakistan may only have maybe less than 5---.

Pakistan----there is no clue and concept of metallugical engr---if there is----there is no research capability---.

Pakistan is a very poor nation---it has very limited resources---if you live in pakistan---you ought to know your nations capabilities.

There is no place in pakistan that challenges the abilities and capabilities of young pakistani engineers.

People need to understand their shortcomings in the first place---when you understand where you stand---then you are conscious of your resources and capabilities and the directive you need to take.

Pakistanis are not consistent people---there is no stability in the life of pakistanis---. Why---because there is no stability in the pakistani govt. Onegovt comes up with one idea---then another comes in and wipes the slate clean and starts all over again---then the first one comes in and goes back to step one---.

It is a constant battle between political parties and pakistans industrial complex sufferes.

Pakistan doesnot have an industrial base---you know why---because for the first 50 years pakistan was ruled by fools---who wanted to develop the agriculture sector and not the engineering sector.

You want to know why they wanted to develop the agriculture sector---because it was easier to develop---for engineering---you really have to use your brain.

Mastan Khan,

You have been out of Pakistan too long to know the reality. Only some of the your observations above are still valid. Obviously there is no comparasion between China and Pakistan but at the same time you will be surprised at the size, scale and complexity of Pakistani military industrial complex. Despite the shortcomings and resource constraints it has achieved certain key successes which are obvious. The successes we have had are not because of stability of the governments but rather the stability of the military. Lets start with metallurgy. One of the most complex metallurgy is the one used for high calibre gun barrels. Pakistan is producing its own steel alloy blanks for guns upto 125mm and has the capacity to go beyond 200+ mm. The machining is also done locally. Pakistan has been producing Maraging Steel used among other things for UA enrichment centrifuges for decades now. Even the alloys used in its indegenous nuclear reactors is locally produced and machined. Please do your homework before you make sweeping statements.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Khan,

You have been out of Pakistan too long to know the reality. Only some of the your observations above are still valid. Obviously there is no comparasion between China and Pakistan but at the same time you will be surprised at the size, scale and complexity of Pakistani military industrial complex. Despite the shortcomings and resource constraints it has achieved certain key successes which are obvious. The successes we have had are not because of stability of the governments but rather the stability of the military. Lets start with metallurgy. One of the most complex metallurgy is the one used for high calibre gun barrels. Pakistan is producing its own steel alloy blanks for guns upto 125mm and has the capacity to go beyond 200+ mm. The machining is also done locally. Pakistan has been producing Maraging Steel used among other things for UA enrichment centrifuges for decades now. Even the alloys used in its indegenous nuclear reactors is locally produced and machined. Please do your homework before you make sweeping statements.

Hi,

Thanks for your time and effort---but they can't build a camshaft or a crankshaft. Why a 125 mm and why not a 120 mm for its main tank gun---what's holding them back.

Let us keep the millitary out of it for awhile---there are colleges and universities without PHD's and research facilities---there are phd's with fake degrees----there are no research facilites except for a minimal few.

You are afraid to put shame where it matters most---because with shame---a man with conscience---someone, somewhere will start thinking and start making the change---. If there is no shame invovled, it will be a hit and a miss---sometime it will go our way.

Bossman---you always keep getting on the defencive all the time---trying to protect and hide the deficiencies. Learn to let go my man---. Just because I have been away doesnot mean that I have been out of touch.

The comment in your last line---you don't need to be upset at me---it reads very silly---. We all know where our country stands---yes there are goods things happenign at some few places---but they are not enough to propel the nation forward.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Mastan Khan,

You have been out of Pakistan too long to know the reality. Only some of the your observations above are still valid. Obviously there is no comparasion between China and Pakistan but at the same time you will be surprised at the size, scale and complexity of Pakistani military industrial complex. Despite the shortcomings and resource constraints it has achieved certain key successes which are obvious. The successes we have had are not because of stability of the governments but rather the stability of the military. Lets start with metallurgy. One of the most complex metallurgy is the one used for high calibre gun barrels. Pakistan is producing its own steel alloy blanks for guns upto 125mm and has the capacity to go beyond 200+ mm. The machining is also done locally. Pakistan has been producing Maraging Steel used among other things for UA enrichment centrifuges for decades now. Even the alloys used in its indegenous nuclear reactors is locally produced and machined. Please do your homework before you make sweeping statements.

In my opinion!

You know why Mastan Khan criticizes Pakistanis? It is not because he hates them but he wants to see a change in the society. In my view, critics makes you stronger....Pakistan is not that glorious, admit it! However, we criticize because we want to see a positive change in Pakistan. I want to see German student studying in Pakistan not vice versa.

 

[Luftwaffe]

No wonder steel mills is bankrupt. @bossman got more to entertain us?

 

[Bossman]

No wonder steel mills is bankrupt. @bossman got more to entertain us?

An obvious uninformed response. There are units other than Steel Mills. Go do some research

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

Thanks for your time and effort---but they can't build a camshaft or a crankshaft. Why a 125 mm and why not a 120 mm for its main tank gun---what's holding them back.

Let us keep the millitary out of it for awhile---there are colleges and universities without PHD's and research facilities---there are phd's with fake degrees----there are no research facilites except for a minimal few.

You are afraid to put shame where it matters most---because with shame---a man with conscience---someone, somewhere will start thinking and start making the change---. If there is no shame invovled, it will be a hit and a miss---sometime it will go our way.

Bossman---you always keep getting on the defencive all the time---trying to protect and hide the deficiencies. Learn to let go my man---. Just because I have been away doesnot mean that I have been out of touch.

The comment in your last line---you don't need to be upset at me---it reads very silly---. We all know where our country stands---yes there are goods things happenign at some few places---but they are not enough to propel the nation forward.

This is a military forum so we talk about military. Why keep the military out? I am only responding to your generalization. I and most other people on this forum are very well aware of the limitations of our educational, industrial and econonmic systems. You are not providing any profound insights. If you think you are than you have a very low opinion of other folks on this forum.

BTW they make the 125mm because what they chose that for their MBT and not the 120mm - which is better is separate debate. BTW camshafts, crankshafts engine blocks and every thing in between are all being manufactured and infact exported.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Mastan / Nabil
The debate always seems to center around the same thing doesn't it ?

We have discussed this at least two/ three times in the past 3 months.

Needless to say Mastan I must correct you regarding our engineering capabilities;
I can speak on behalf of NUST and GIKI, which are producing world class engineers; engineers which are doing good work and contributing hugely to Pakistani society.

being an engineer my self, I took offense from your comments.

I can give you a list of some very wonderful work done @ Pakistan; lets keep that for an appropriate time and thread.

For now, do think about DANISHWAR's questions; almost the same what we were discussing a couple of days ago.

 

[aks18]

Hi,

Thanks for your time and effort---but they can't build a camshaft or a crankshaft. Why a 125 mm and why not a 120 mm for its main tank gun---what's holding them back.

Let us keep the millitary out of it for awhile---there are colleges and universities without PHD's and research facilities---there are phd's with fake degrees----there are no research facilites except for a minimal few.

You are afraid to put shame where it matters most---because with shame---a man with conscience---someone, somewhere will start thinking and start making the change---. If there is no shame invovled, it will be a hit and a miss---sometime it will go our way.

Bossman---you always keep getting on the defencive all the time---trying to protect and hide the deficiencies. Learn to let go my man---. Just because I have been away doesnot mean that I have been out of touch.

The comment in your last line---you don't need to be upset at me---it reads very silly---. We all know where our country stands---yes there are goods things happenign at some few places---but they are not enough to propel the nation forward.

i have never heard about fake PHD's but heard about fake bachelor's degree holders i dont know from where mister mastan khan took information :S

 

[hataf]

Hi,

You have a difficult time understanding----machines that are used for killing---it does not make any difference who's designed it---. Your bottomline is does it do they do the job for you---and do you have the capability and ability in your limited resources to get and make the best out of two or three different systems.

China has thousands and thousands of PHD's---pakistan only a few and lots of them with fake degrees---. China has hundreds of world class laboratories---pakistan may only have maybe less than 5---.

Pakistan----there is no clue and concept of metallugical engr---if there is----there is no research capability---.

Pakistan is a very poor nation---it has very limited resources---if you live in pakistan---you ought to know your nations capabilities.

There is no place in pakistan that challenges the abilities and capabilities of young pakistani engineers.

People need to understand their shortcomings in the first place---when you understand where you stand---then you are conscious of your resources and capabilities and the directive you need to take.

Pakistanis are not consistent people---there is no stability in the life of pakistanis---. Why---because there is no stability in the pakistani govt. Onegovt comes up with one idea---then another comes in and wipes the slate clean and starts all over again---then the first one comes in and goes back to step one---.

It is a constant battle between political parties and pakistans industrial complex sufferes.

Pakistan doesnot have an industrial base---you know why---because for the first 50 years pakistan was ruled by fools---who wanted to develop the agriculture sector and not the engineering sector.

You want to know why they wanted to develop the agriculture sector---because it was easier to develop---for engineering---you really have to use your brain.

We have "ratu baz engineers" I will study the same thing which my dad studied in engineering. We don't have practical experience. Hungarian friend of mine said, "Pakistanis are good when it comes to theoretical type study but they do not have practical experience." We can only produce thinkers and intellectuals if we change our grass root education system. We have many engineers but of no use since they do not have the ability to think in a different way. We reinvent the wheel many times in our class room but we don't have the capacity to invent anything/take new initiatives. People who can think in a different way either go abroad or have insufficient funds to do something constructive. The scholarly/great minds like Abdul Salam are kicked out of the country because of their faith. The person/group who gave fatwas against Dr. Salam should be lashed in public because we have all the right to ask those fanatics; it's fine if you kicked out a noble prize winner scientist but what did you give us in return? Your fatwas, society does not need it!

We have talent in Pakistan but we need a good education system at the grass level so we can produce inventors not ratue baz engineers. New born baby does not go to Harvard rather the students from the middle and high school go there. We need to improve our education system, can't emphasize more!

Hi,

Thanks for your time and effort---but they can't build a camshaft or a crankshaft. Why a 125 mm and why not a 120 mm for its main tank gun---what's holding them back.

Let us keep the millitary out of it for awhile---there are colleges and universities without PHD's and research facilities---there are phd's with fake degrees----there are no research facilites except for a minimal few.

You are afraid to put shame where it matters most---because with shame---a man with conscience---someone, somewhere will start thinking and start making the change---. If there is no shame invovled, it will be a hit and a miss---sometime it will go our way.

Bossman---you always keep getting on the defencive all the time---trying to protect and hide the deficiencies. Learn to let go my man---. Just because I have been away doesnot mean that I have been out of touch.

The comment in your last line---you don't need to be upset at me---it reads very silly---. We all know where our country stands---yes there are goods things happenign at some few places---but they are not enough to propel the nation forward.

In my opinion!

You know why Mastan Khan criticizes Pakistanis? It is not because he hates them but he wants to see a change in the society. In my view, critics makes you stronger....Pakistan is not that glorious, admit it! However, we criticize because we want to see a positive change in Pakistan. I want to see German student studying in Pakistan not vice versa.

No wonder steel mills is bankrupt. @bossman got more to entertain us?

An obvious uninformed response. There are units other than Steel Mills. Go do some research

This is a military forum so we talk about military. Why keep the military out? I am only responding to your generalization. I and most other people on this forum are very well aware of the limitations of our educational, industrial and econonmic systems. You are not providing any profound insights. If you think you are than you have a very low opinion of other folks on this forum.

BTW they make the 125mm because what they chose that for their MBT and not the 120mm - which is better is separate debate. BTW camshafts, crankshafts engine blocks and every thing in between are all being manufactured and infact exported.

i think its not helping. your criticism

because criticism is easy . . . . . just like

why don't you come to Pakistan and take an initiative to change the society . . . . . . .

i know you won't . . . .

because its difficult to do. . . . . difficult like hell

and you can only do criticism because its easy . . . .

i don't criticize my socity but try to correct it as much as i can

because i am a part of it. And knowingly or unknowingly my hands and every Pakistani is also involve to to bring the society to this level

now you like it or not . . .. i think that way