JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Bratva]

From Pakdef


"The PAF's been very committed to keep JF-17s coming off the assembly line and not let any hang-up hamper production. Here's an excerpt from what the PAC chairman told AFM chief Alan Warnes:"

One thing is clear - the PAF is not going to slow down production for want of something from somewhere. They are hard-nosed about this and the PAC chairman told the author in February 2011: "When we add something from the west, it will add punch and value - we know that. We have come a long way and need to replace hundreds of aircraft. What we must ensure is that we persevere at a fast track - any shortfalls can be looked at later. If I am not happy with the performance but we can fly for the next three years - we will fly! System development can catch up - so the broad parameters have to be stuck to. We keep producing and delivering aircraft because the Thunder is far better than the aircraft it is going to replace.

Mentality of PAF regarding JF-17 defined very well.

 

[regular]

I guess the blockII JF-17 recieving due date will be starting from the August....its approaching very fast...needz to get some good newz by then.......

 

[alimobin memon]

From Pakdef


"The PAF's been very committed to keep JF-17s coming off the assembly line and not let any hang-up hamper production. Here's an excerpt from what the PAC chairman told AFM chief Alan Warnes:"



Mentality of PAF regarding JF-17 defined very well.

Very good explanation ... it is indeed better than 3rd generation but also proved in PAF own exercises that it has jammed the bloc k15 radar and won several dogfights Air chief Marshall rao qumar suleiman once said we build jf17 to replace the obsoletes but we found it is much better than 3rd generation and a excellent fighter of its generation...

 

[Bratva]

Very good explanation ... it is indeed better than 3rd generation but also proved in PAF own exercises that it has jammed the bloc k15 radar and won several dogfights Air chief Marshall rao qumar suleiman once said we build jf17 to replace the obsoletes but we found it is much better than 3rd generation and a excellent fighter of its generation...

JF-17 not going to fight Block 15 era technology. It's adversaries are far more potent well equipped and have latest jamming resistance technology. If you want to know the real woth of JF-17, fly against Block 52 with american jamming pods and than observe how JF-17 stands on it's own...

 

[Dazzler]

JF-17 not going to fight Block 15 era technology. It's adversaries are far more potent well equipped and have latest jamming resistance technology. If you want to know the real woth of JF-17, fly against Block 52 with american jamming pods and than observe how JF-17 stands on it's own...

And what made you think this is not going to happen? As far as i know, a mock fight has already taken place between the two but dont know about the outcome. Considering the fact it outclassed blk 15s in dogfights, in terms of agility, it must have done nothing less than impressive to the blk 52s, other parameters need verification.

 

[IceCold]

JF-17 not going to fight Block 15 era technology. It's adversaries are far more potent well equipped and have latest jamming resistance technology. If you want to know the real woth of JF-17, fly against Block 52 with american jamming pods and than observe how JF-17 stands on it's own...

Exactly. I wonder why people tend to forget that and start feeling proud comparing a thing of the future with something that was built in the 70s. Even if JF-17 does block the block -15 radar, its hardly any achievement. How about blocking the radar of block 52?

And what made you think this is not going to happen? As far as i know, a mock fight has already taken place between the two but dont know about the outcome. Considering the fact it outclassed blk 15s in dogfights, in terms of agility, it must have done nothing less than impressive to the blk 52s, other parameters need verification.

And how many fights do you think sir will be dog fights in today modern warfare?

 

[alimobin memon]

Exactly. I wonder why people tend to forget that and start feeling proud comparing a thing of the future with something that was built in the 70s. Even if JF-17 does block the block -15 radar, its hardly any achievement. How about blocking the radar of block 52?



And how many fights do you think sir will be dog fights in today modern warfare?

Sir jf17 is already 85% block 52+ and it is stated by chief marshall ... what i wanted to say is that we have now a second best fighter in our fleet and f16 block 15 is now 3rd that is huge achievement the DEEC EW SUITE OF Jf17 I assure u will able to do its job even against block 52+.

here 90% neglect or dont believe but There are still rumour's that jf17 is very potent if we add AESA and IRST and some other electronics we may have no need of j10b ...

 

[Dazzler]

Exactly. I wonder why people tend to forget that and start feeling proud comparing a thing of the future with something that was built in the 70s. Even if JF-17 does block the block -15 radar, its hardly any achievement. How about blocking the radar of block 52?



And how many fights do you think sir will be dog fights in today modern warfare?

Sir, there is no rule of thumb that all engagements are going to be in BVR regime, there is a reason why world airforces practice dogfight manoeuvres to this day which is meant to improve pilot skills and awareness. Even with the advancement of technology, the relevance of dogfight remains stable. You being a senior member should have known this

Sir jf17 is already 85% block 52+ and it is stated by chief marshall ... what i wanted to say is that we have now a second best fighter in our fleet and f16 block 15 is now 3rd that is huge achievement the DEEC EW SUITE OF Jf17 I assure u will able to do its job even against block 52+.

here 90% neglect or dont believe but There are still rumour's that jf17 is very potent if we add AESA and IRST and some other electronics we may have no need of j10b ...

As good as jf-17 is in terms of other features, it still cant match j-10's range and payload so it will remain behind j-10 in these two features.

 

[Pfpilot]

The Indo-Pak theatre is likely to result in a great amount of WVR engagements. This is likely not only due to the close proximity of airbases on both sides, but also due to the defensive role the PAF plans to play. The concept of dogfight seems decidedly obsolete, but only in it's historic form. Close in, aircraft are far more likely to take a shot at the merge and then disengage. Due to the advent of high off bore sight missiles, the first shot would, at worst put the adversary on the defensive and allow the aggressor to dictate the next merger...that is of course, if the WVR missile doesn't out rightly get the kill.

If this is the scenario that seems most realistic, the performance of the jf-17 short range missiles and the inherent sensor fusion built in are far more important indicators of how successful an aircraft we really have on our hands. The same can be said for BVR combat; we may have the pilots with the requisite skills, but if the sd-10 fails to live up to its advertised capabilities or the radar has trouble jamming powerful Russian radars, the jf-17 would be at a massive disadvantage. But these problems go both ways, the lack of real conflict has prevented either side from truly testing their tactics against a genuine foe.

 

[Bratva]

Shall we redefine the WVR in PAK-INDIA scenario.... The WVR will be 20-30 KM and in this region BVR fire will test the pilot skills of both adversaries. Less than 10 KM engagement is impossible now a days for Pak-Ind Scenario. So in my opinion Dog fighting will become rare in present and future conflicts.

The Indo-Pak theatre is likely to result in a great amount of WVR engagements. This is likely not only due to the close proximity of airbases on both sides, but also due to the defensive role the PAF plans to play. The concept of dogfight seems decidedly obsolete, but only in it's historic form. Close in, aircraft are far more likely to take a shot at the merge and then disengage. Due to the advent of high off bore sight missiles, the first shot would, at worst put the adversary on the defensive and allow the aggressor to dictate the next merger...that is of course, if the WVR missile doesn't out rightly get the kill.

If this is the scenario that seems most realistic, the performance of the jf-17 short range missiles and the inherent sensor fusion built in are far more important indicators of how successful an aircraft we really have on our hands. The same can be said for BVR combat; we may have the pilots with the requisite skills, but if the sd-10 fails to live up to its advertised capabilities or the radar has trouble jamming powerful Russian radars, the jf-17 would be at a massive disadvantage. But these problems go both ways, the lack of real conflict has prevented either side from truly testing their tactics against a genuine foe.

That's why we have Block 52+ in our inventory which can act as a simulated foe and we can formulate tactis accordingly. Likewise, India has SU-30 through which all other pilots can have a idea of how PAF high end aircraft might act.

 

[manofwar]

Shall we redefine the WVR in PAK-INDIA scenario.... The WVR will be 20-30 KM and in this region BVR fire will test the pilot skills of both adversaries. Less than 10 KM engagement is impossible now a days for Pak-Ind Scenario. So if we say dog fighting is debatable in today scenario.

Now a days WVR is impossible man...........The only scenario where it might happen, is in a raid or massive airstrike from either side. Normal Aerial battles will be finished at 50kms max.......

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

That's why we have Block 52+ in our inventory which can act as a simulated foe and we can formulate tactis accordingly. Likewise, India has SU-30 through which all other pilots can have a idea of how PAF high end aircraft might act.

We don't use Sukhoi to formulate tactics. We have regular exercises with USAF and other airforces of the world which enables our pilots to simulate against real F16s

 

[Bratva]

We don't use Sukhoi to formulate tactics. We have regular exercises with USAF and other airforces of the world which enables our pilots to simulate against real F16s

Does every pilot of IAF gets the chance of training with USAF and other Air forces? No. Those who don't get the chance might be trained this way which i mentioned.

 

[IceCold]

Sir, there is no rule of thumb that all engagements are going to be in BVR regime, there is a reason why world airforces practice dogfight manoeuvres to this day which is meant to improve pilot skills and awareness. Even with the advancement of technology, the relevance of dogfight remains stable. You being a senior member should have known this

I still consider myself a novice when it comes to this. Coming back to the dog fight thingy, relevance is one thing, boasting over is an altogether different. I never implied that all engagements will take place at BVR however do you agree that majority will specially considering how modern 4.5th and 5th generation fighters would like to take their opponents out before getting into visual range or dog fights.
I have seen alot of posts where members boast about how JF-17 beat F-16 in dog fight. My post was specially targeted towards that audience which unfortunately includes you too.

 

[Mav3rick]

We don't use Sukhoi to formulate tactics. We have regular exercises with USAF and other airforces of the world which enables our pilots to simulate against real F16s

On the other hand, we not only have these exercises where we pit our AF against other AF's, our pilots also get hands on experience on SU-30MKK's, F-15's, F-16 B-60's, Mirage 2000 etc. that friendly's fly......this gives us an excellent idea about our adversary's abilities