JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Dazzler]

F-15 and f-18 design are 70s era fighter design.

PAF was never interested in Canard Delta design for jf-17, rather, an F-16 like conventional+ unstable design with digital fly by wire.

 

[TaimiKhan]

F-15 and f-18 design are 70s era fighter design.

Canards are an early 1900 concept.

Santos-Dumont 14-bis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wright Flyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kyushu J7W - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saab 37 vigen i suppose was the first operational fight with the canard design in the late 60s & early 70s.

So there is nothing magic in canard design. Nor its a magic wand or a technology which is rare.

had JF-17 been wanted as a canard design, it would have been done, but since there was no requirement, nothing happened in that regard.

JF-17 was never in competition with the J-10, at any stage had the Chinese thought it is a threat to J-10 export prospects, Chinese would have stopped the project or would not present it for export. JF-17 is a light end fighter no matter what the design preference had been, while J-10 is a superior class medium end fighter.

JF-17 is cheap 15-20M $$ aircraft and comes with a punch in its own class, J-10 is a medium level 35-45M aircraft which has its own punch and both are not comparable, many technologies may be same in both the aircraft, but still they are different and not a threat to each other.

JF-17 will be bought by countries which can't buy high end aircraft like J-10s and whose requirements can be met with JF-17, while J-10 will be bought by countries who can afford and whose requirements are fulfilled by it.

And there are good chances that JF-17 in shape of FC-1 might get inducted in CAF, but Chinese engine is must for that to happen. FC-1 being tested rigorously along J-10B and J-20 at the same airfield might give an indication that it may have a chance for the CAF.

 

[Donatello]

There are two options here...

1. There is a genuine RCS reduced prototype under the warp in China that is known to have a stealthy (reduced RCS) diamond shape nose and slightly modified DSI intakes. Nothing more has been heard on it for quite a while.

2. China has already proposed a new, single engine stealth fighter to PAF last year, which has been accepted after usual PAF proposed changes, this fighter is being developed as an export stealth fighter, much like the F35 JSF. Huitong confirmed its existence and many Chinese insiders (including Pupu) have also confirmed its existence. It is likely to fly by late 2012 or early 2013. My source has also confirmed this news.

PAF has plenty of plans for next gen... that's why we don't hear al ot about it.

Hi, maybe that is why PAF is mum on the J-10 prospects. Get some more f-16s as stop gap, get them MLU-ed, keep rolling in JF-17s and then go directly to 5th Gen by 2017/2018. India is gonna have one anyway, so we will have to make up for it in any case.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Hi, maybe that is why PAF is mum on the J-10 prospects. Get some more f-16s as stop gap, get them MLU-ed, keep rolling in JF-17s and then go directly to 5th Gen by 2017/2018. India is gonna have one anyway, so we will have to make up for it in any case.

The single engine stealth fighter is gonna be a expensive aircraft, to buy and then to maintain also. We can't have them in numbers, at the most may be 3-4 Sqds as first strike or elite weapon system. They need to be backed up with a force of 4th and 4.5th generation fighters. And JF-17s / J-10s are the answer, as F-16s are limited and have conditions attached.

take the example of USAF, F-22 lead the way and others follow and it will be so for coming decades. and if our economy fared well, we may be needing higher number of jets as time goes by.

 

[alimobin memon]

Canards are an early 1900 concept.

Santos-Dumont 14-bis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wright Flyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kyushu J7W - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saab 37 vigen i suppose was the first operational fight with the canard design in the late 60s & early 70s.

So there is nothing magic in canard design. Nor its a magic wand or a technology which is rare.

had JF-17 been wanted as a canard design, it would have been done, but since there was no requirement, nothing happened in that regard.

JF-17 was never in competition with the J-10, at any stage had the Chinese thought it is a threat to J-10 export prospects, Chinese would have stopped the project or would not present it for export. JF-17 is a light end fighter no matter what the design preference had been, while J-10 is a superior class medium end fighter.

JF-17 is cheap 15-20M $$ aircraft and comes with a punch in its own class, J-10 is a medium level 35-45M aircraft which has its own punch and both are not comparable, many technologies may be same in both the aircraft, but still they are different and not a threat to each other.

JF-17 will be bought by countries which can't buy high end aircraft like J-10s and whose requirements can be met with JF-17, while J-10 will be bought by countries who can afford and whose requirements are fulfilled by it.

And there are good chances that JF-17 in shape of FC-1 might get inducted in CAF, but Chinese engine is must for that to happen. FC-1 being tested rigorously along J-10B and J-20 at the same airfield might give an indication that it may have a chance for the CAF.

you are right ... somewhat but as far as my sources say is that j10B is an excellent fighter but jf17 is better than good and little less then excellent so what i am trying to say is luckily jf17 is much more cheaper aircraft that provides much of j10B performance that's why there are some people {xxx} that dont desperately or even much worried to intergrate j10B in pakistan as far as what they want is update jf17 with avionics like IRST and aesa and that is definitely possible... i just don't why the hell in modern era u guys think jf17 isn't front line fighter u take it as cost effecting . Truth is it was never expected that jf17 would be that cheap and in exchange provide so much of high tech performance like j10b and FA-18. 9 years ago i remember few officials discussing actually arguing about negotiations of FA-18 E for PAF and one of them said "we are building a Fighter jet that is same in performance than that" in my opinion it is indeed... avoinics maybe issue to u guys but trust me if something is wrong that is PAF is hiding the true picture of jf17 .

 

[Donatello]

The single engine stealth fighter is gonna be a expensive aircraft, to buy and then to maintain also. We can't have them in numbers, at the most may be 3-4 Sqds as first strike or elite weapon system. They need to be backed up with a force of 4th and 4.5th generation fighters. And JF-17s / J-10s are the answer, as F-16s are limited and have conditions attached.

take the example of USAF, F-22 lead the way and others follow and it will be so for coming decades. and if our economy fared well, we may be needing higher number of jets as time goes by.

63 F-16s, 150 JF-17s, total 213 jets. Too low of a number. Which means gap has to be fulfilled by either more JF-17s or J-10s. We will need to compromise on J-10 numbers if we want to invest in Chinese stealth fighter.

 

[regular]

You think you are the only one, ask those pilots how they feel when the airspace they swore to defend with their lives is violated day in day out and they are not allowed to do a thing about it.

I believe in U sir!
Cuz its the same situation with every Pakistani guy but they are keeping patience, have nothing in their hands yet.....

 

[Safriz]

63 F-16s, 150 JF-17s, total 213 jets. Too low of a number. Which means gap has to be fulfilled by either more JF-17s or J-10s. We will need to compromise on J-10 numbers if we want to invest in Chinese stealth fighter.

or by better SAMS and better air defence?

 

[hotaki]

What ever the Pakistani pilots feel we the public feel the same but reality is different, we can't afford to take on usaf, Pakistan needs to revamp all institution and the economy and who knows what we can do in the future.

 

[Safriz]

What ever the Pakistani pilots feel we the public feel the same but reality is different, we can't afford to take on usaf, Pakistan needs to revamp all institution and the economy and who knows what we can do in the future.

well we brought it upon ourselves by voting for the wrong people and putting them to power.
Benazir died and the whole country gave sympathy votes to PPP...knowing that if PPP wins a known criminal will be in power...
Now who we are kidding "Bhugtoo"

 

[hotaki]

well we brought it upon ourselves by voting for the wrong people and putting them to power.
Benazir died and the whe cluntry gave sympathy votes to PPP...knowing that if PPP wins a known criminal will be in power...
Now who we are kidding "Bhugtoo"

Most of the time we didn't vote them, Pakistan was stained the day ayyub declared martial law, remember it was the first stain, first act of treason that opened the doors for others, you have to examine a problem at root level.

Pakistan airforce being behind is something that they brought on them selves, even with the thunder we are 10 years late, we should have had 50 thunders by 2005 the latest, but due to paf twiddling its toes joined late, and now has to play catchup like never before.

 

[sancho]

The single engine stealth fighter is gonna be a expensive aircraft, to buy and then to maintain also.

That is one of the key issues that many people not see. Procuring an stealth fighter from China might be cheaper than F35 for example and with the good loan conditions possible for sure, but maintaining such fighters is the real problem! USN estimates that maintaining the single engine F35C will be 1.5 times costlier as the twin engine F18 Hornets they will replace! So PAF not only has to look at the procurement cost, but also if they can operate such a fleet, especially with the rumored numbers of JF 17 and J10 (150 to 250 / 36 to 100+).

 

[Farooqi1]

There are two options here...

1. There is a genuine RCS reduced prototype under the warp in China that is known to have a stealthy (reduced RCS) diamond shape nose and slightly modified DSI intakes. Nothing more has been heard on it for quite a while.

2. China has already proposed a new, single engine stealth fighter to PAF last year, which has been accepted after usual PAF proposed changes, this fighter is being developed as an export stealth fighter, much like the F35 JSF. Huitong confirmed its existence and many Chinese insiders (including Pupu) have also confirmed its existence. It is likely to fly by late 2012 or early 2013. My source has also confirmed this news.

PAF has plenty of plans for next gen... that's why we don't hear al ot about it.

Dil Khush kardita Allah Ditta. You just made my day. Hopefuly your information is accurate.

 

[Farooqi1]

Most of the time we didn't vote them, Pakistan was stained the day ayyub declared martial law, remember it was the first stain, first act of treason that opened the doors for others, you have to examine a problem at root level.

Pakistan airforce being behind is something that they brought on them selves, even with the thunder we are 10 years late, we should have had 50 thunders by 2005 the latest, but due to paf twiddling its toes joined late, and now has to play catchup like never before.

Can we vote PAF brass tag out? Or may be these people did not have any power because of the army eating majority of the pie? Well any way from now PAF should be the top priority. that is for sure. Don't you guys agree? I don't know how things work in Pakistan any more. In US people start a movement just writing emails and letters. may be that could work. After All it is a democracy. We all love Pakistan. I have no doubt about that. With unity we could do anything. Simple act of sending emails or writing letters could bring unbelievable results. I am just not preaching I have already sent couple of emails through pffalcons.com contact us link. We can also pressure ministry of defense of Pakistan, political leaders etc. Something can be done to make them realize. Brothers do something for the love of Pakistan.

 

[Nishan_101]

I wish that this Block-IIs will going to incorporate Extensive use of Composites, WS-13(100KN), FLIR and IRIST Pod or like on UAVs type POD, Retractable In-Flight Refueling Probe and Dual seat aircraft too. CFTs.