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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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By 2016(as per Dubai info releases) Block III would be ready and production will start.

-You are entitled to your opinion brother but lets just say it should have a shred of reality too...How can we raise the envelop of JF-17 more higher than its already defined when even our Block I's are there thanks to China's agreement of soft loans....

No..2017 is the Year if all goes well Block III would be in prototype Phase.

I'm sorry but JF-17 has limitations Block III-IV would only do so much with the upgrades it would get, it would go as far as F-16 Desert Falcon-Japanese F-2's are at the most better weapons/more payload stretch fuselage and use of increase composite material and the standard 4+ Gen like AESA-IRST-new engine and other internal subsystems. By that time GripenNG-Rafale-Typhoon-F-15SE-FA/18SH would be miles ahead.

Reality JF-17 serves the purpose of replacing older generation of Jets in PAF and to cover the gap for a decade or so to come due to funds restrictions or non availability. PAF will have to do something else to get a really and I mean to get really something that challenges your neighbor with FANGS of Sukhoi-Mig-29ers-Mirage 2000 dash upgrades soon to come, Rafale-PakFA...it is no joke anymore...PAF has nothing beyond next 12 Years+ to challenge those highly modified and to be modernized-modified hindustani inventory of the future. I believe the blame is not entirely on PAF it is the Govt(s) of Pakistan as well you can only reach that level to have cash cow IF you start grabbing people collect Taxes whether they die of hunger or not start some massive clean up inside Pakistan that Pakistani Govt could have done but due to lazy bums we are living in the era i would match with 50's...
 
No..2017 is the Year if all goes well Block III would be in prototype Phase.

I'm sorry but JF-17 has limitations Block III-IV would only do so much with the upgrades it would get, it would go as far as F-16 Desert Falcon-Japanese F-2's are at the most better weapons/more payload stretch fuselage and use of increase composite material and the standard 4+ Gen like AESA-IRST-new engine and other internal subsystems. By that time GripenNG-Rafale-Typhoon-F-15SE-FA/18SH would be miles ahead.

Reality JF-17 serves the purpose of replacing older generation of Jets in PAF and to cover the gap for a decade or so to come due to funds restrictions or non availability. PAF will have to do something else to get a really and I mean to get really something that challenges your neighbor with FANGS of Sukhoi-Mig-29ers-Mirage 2000 dash upgrades soon to come, Rafale-PakFA...it is no joke anymore...PAF has nothing beyond next 12 Years+ to challenge those highly modified and to be modernized-modified hindustani inventory of the future. I believe the blame is not entirely on PAF it is the Govt(s) of Pakistan as well you can only reach that level to have cash cow IF you start grabbing people collect Taxes whether they die of hunger or not start some massive clean up inside Pakistan that Pakistani Govt could have done but due to lazy bums we are living in the era i would match with 50's...

You understood wrong bro...I never meant to put JF-17 is to direct competition with the SU-30's and MMRCA... I was simply pointing out that 2016 (you say 2017) we will have BLK-III on which AESA and IRST etc upgrades are expected
other than that I completely agree with your post
 
i think paf wanna go for j-20 than j-10. no j-10 in paf, use those funds for j-20
 
i think paf wanna go for j-20 than j-10. no j-10 in paf, use those funds for j-20

No..
There is no requirement for a fighter such as the J-20 in the PAF.
There is requirement for a light 5th Gen system the likes of the F-35..
but till a suitable aircraft is developed either by China or Turkey..
Pakistan will sit on it with the 4.5 gen FC-20.
 
No..
There is no requirement for a fighter such as the J-20 in the PAF.
There is requirement for a light 5th Gen system the likes of the F-35..
but till a suitable aircraft is developed either by China or Turkey..
Pakistan will sit on it with the 4.5 gen FC-20.

come on ..pak fa/fgfa coming to s. asia very soon, you will have to plan now. only option is j-20 and i suspect paf is going for it as there is no official news on j-10 yet. A chinese f-35 is quite long wait.
 
come on ..pak fa/fgfa coming to s. asia very soon, you will have to plan now. only option is j-20 and i suspect paf is going for it as there is no official news on j-10 yet. A chinese f-35 is quite long wait.

Your assessment is wrong because as of now, Chinese are already working in J-21 aka Chinese version of F-35 which is single engine stealth fighter. CAC design already left drawing board in 2011 and airframe is being built and it is being promoted to PAF. It will be in service before 2018-20.
 
Guys i have one question that JF17 Trust/weight ratio is 0.95 which also is a important aspect of aircraft maneuverability but all 4th gen fighters have greater for eg: Tejas has 1.07 and f16 has 1.096 so how it is claimed by PAF pilots that it outperforms f-16 in maneuvers 0_o ?
 
Guys i have one question that JF17 Trust/weight ratio is 0.95 which also is a important aspect of aircraft maneuverability but all 4th gen fighters have greater for eg: Tejas has 1.07 and f16 has 1.096 so how it is claimed by PAF pilots that it outperforms f-16 in maneuvers 0_o ?

You need to believe the Klimov brochure that say the RD-93 has 98kN of thrust ... ... then it all makes sense.
 
Guys i have one question that JF17 Trust/weight ratio is 0.95 which also is a important aspect of aircraft maneuverability but all 4th gen fighters have greater for eg: Tejas has 1.07 and f16 has 1.096 so how it is claimed by PAF pilots that it outperforms f-16 in maneuvers 0_o ?
LOL!!!

-First off dont use wiki info

-Secondly JF-17's t/w ratio is 0.966 and if you consider the Kilmov chart at Zhuhai its over 1 as the Thrust mentioned there was 98Kn ..

-Thirdly keep LCA out

-Fourthly if your not satisfied by my answer review these figures of wiki
I mean 9500 Kg with 80.5 KN thrust and a T/W of 1.07...These guys seriously need help with maths ..
 
Concerning the RD-33 family here are a couple of tables from the Russian brochure: Please note that the RD-33 Series III does not offer the higher thrust advertised by Klimov on the RD-93. The thrust RD-93 is in line with the RD-33MK.

http://i.imgur.com/zoMRr.jpg
zoMRr.jpg


and

http://i.imgur.com/OFkKf.jpg
OFkKf.jpg
 
The argument that JF-17 is good for those countries who cant afford to have BVR capable fighter is as good as the argument made when Gawader Port was building. " it will make pakistan a strategic country and blah blah" look what happen in the end. No exports of JF-17 will occur until 3 4 years we will then judge how cost effectiveness has made its impact on export market.

Gwader port couldn't return its desired results as we miserably failed to connect it to Northern parts of the country. Instead of building a road towards Quetta and Punjab, Musharraf connected it to Karachi port via road. Connecting two ports via road itself is very strange concept especially if both are located on the same sea shore. Now, coming towards Thunder, I think there is one hell of difference between project planning of JF-17 and Gawadar :)

designed particularly for PAF, it is quite dynamic project -at least it looks like that way till now -so far, we have have integrated weapons for almost all kind of operations on it (air combat, strike and Maritime ops) without losing the concept of "Low Price" and this is the export strategy for this fighter. In an global economic environment where even European military programs are suffering from Euro-Zone crisis, believe me sir, Cost-effectiveness matters and it matters even more for third world countries where Thunder is being targeted for exports.



Second point is whats the benefit of comparing JF-17 with old F-16 or mig 29,? The comparisons would have been justified if jf-17 introduced 10 years ago when BVR,AESA, Advance electronic warfare capability were nascent concepts. Now the envirnment has changed, adversary capabilities have changed, they will have AESA and IRST capable fighters then how JF-17 small size and RCS would help it?

Only Two points.

1. JF-17 was never intended to become a hi-end weapon system. It was always to become Work-Horse of PAF. (Middle-Tier jet at best)

2. Modernization program is in place and to absorb the latest technologies while keeping price under a certain threshold. So, relax please... if we don't know everything it doesn't mean nothing is going on. Apart from small size and low RCS, there is a EW suite in it as well :)

In my humble opinion, with the changing environment and capabilities of adversary. PAF should have dropped the cost effective approch and should have pushed the enevelop of JF-17 in block 2 but alas. . . . Economy and Money has restricted it to maintain the cost effective approch


That would be a horrible idea. As i have said that Thunder was never meant to be a Hi-End system and more importantly we must remember that the time when it was conceived even Chinese aviation industry was struggling with modern fighter jet technologies ( though they have done some catching in avionics, power plants will take few more years). You can't push a medium tech jet into league of modern 20 ton fighters. Ask yourself a simple question, Can you put more weapon load + range despite adding new avionics and EW in it? Answer is NO. That will demand a more powerful engine and larger wings and air frame... and this is where F-16 and J-10B will come in. (High-End) real issue which PAF is facing here is not the technological difference vis-a-vis IAF. During the last 10 years, we have match them in every technical aspect where previously IAF was having clear edge over us (BVR, IFR, AWACS etc.) But as mentioned above by Mastan Khan and myself, our real problem is the NUMBERS of our Hi-Tier aerial weapon systems.

Hope i did answer few of your questions here.
 
i think paf wanna go for j-20 than j-10. no j-10 in paf, use those funds for j-20

We have never had twin engined fighters in our air force. I think it would be best to induct some J-11s (for training) first before getting into J-20
 
We have never had twin engined fighters in our air force. I think it would be best to induct some J-11s (for training) first before getting into J-20

Hi,

I have made the same error---we had twin engine---what it actually is---we have not had twin tail aircraft. You are right---we need twin tail twin seaters---J11's---at least two sqdrns---.
 
We have never had twin engined fighters in our air force. I think it would be best to induct some J-11s (for training) first before getting into J-20
So what do u think A-5C ( Q-G) was ? plz check out some figures man .................... we have operated twin engine Air crafts until 2010 so there is no problem in handling one except the $ part to maintain them
 
I dont think that current canopy of jft-1 provide 360 degree view for the pilot like f-16.Will PAF engineers provide bubble canopy to jft-1 for complete view of 360 degree in block 2 or upcoming blocks??????????????
 
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