JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[fatman17]

HOW MANY JF-17 WE HAVE IN INVENTORY........

We had 8 in PAF JF 1st SQD, and around 12 were in PAC along prototypes ...that was the newz in APRIL 10.

I guess we may hav 10-15 more now making total around ~30 units.
Can any one confirm?

1 sqdn = 16 a/c has been completed - 26 sqdn
next in line = 16 sqdn. the target is Dec-10 but IMO they will reequip by March-11 with 16 a/c.

 

[Arsalan]

1 sqdn = 16 a/c has been completed - 26 sqdn
next in line = 16 sqdn. the target is Dec-10 but IMO they will reequip by March-11 with 16 a/c.

sir what is your personal opinion on the size of Squadron.
i think 16 aircrafts are a bit low on number for one squadron.
ideally these must comprise of 18~21 planes.
this enables increased sorties for a squadron and there area of influence will be good.

regards!

 

[VCheng]

Fighter jets are evaluated not base on where their parts and paint is produced rather it is its specifications, parameters, performance and over all design which determine its class.

Of course, performance is what matters. I agree fully with that.

However, please carefully consider the following from the comparison that you provided:

"A first group of fighters that currently possess (the F-16A Block 15OCU, the Mirage-50EV, and the F-5A Freedom Fighter), and another group with similar aerodynamic fighters (the F-5E Tiger III, and the prototype of the F-20 Tigershark)."

Other than the F-16A (the first production version from the late 1970s), which is in the comparison because it is currently possessed by the airforce doing the comparison, the other aircraft to which the JF-17 is being compared due to being "similar aerodynamic fighters" are the Mirage 50-EV (from the 1970s), and two versions of the F-5 (F-5A from the 1960s, F-5E from the 1980s) and the final development of that airframe, the F-20 Tigershark (late 1970s to early 1980s), which never achieved productions or sales.

That selection of aircraft alone speaks volumes about the performance class of the JF-17: it is designed to be a low cost light attack aircraft that will achieve its target fully only once the integration programs are finally successful, and matches or exceeds the performance of other similar light aircraft from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

That is exactly what the PAF requirements are, and I have no doubt that it will serve the needs of the PAF very well.

The fact that Pakistan is presently able to assemble the aircraft is no doubt a big advantage, and once the goal of 58% local content by 2012 is achieved, will be a boost to future efforts for more advanced aircraft programs as well.

 

[mil-avia]

The website fyjs has an indepth and detailed report of eight pages about the influences of Sabre II and Super-7 programs on JF-17 program,
S-II and S-7 programs had considerable American and some Russian involvements until the Tiananmen incident,
every page of the report has some startling photos and diagrams,
URL to the pages are as follows (text in Chinese) :

http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=2
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=3
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=4
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=5
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=6
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=7
http //www fyjs cn/bbs/read php?tid=94270&fpage=1&toread=&page=8

** Please put colon symbol ( : ) after http and period symbols (.) after www, fyjs and read and remove the spaces in between

 

[Arsalan]

V-cheng... you have no understanding of design development and ecnomic viability behind any product development.
Do you really think JF-17 would be viable if we start producing every bit and piece locally?
JFT is a our design and it dosn't matter if the parts come even from Timberland.
Today, you will hardly find any product which does not have Chinese parts.... so going by your formula we can claim US don't build cars, TV, computers etc?

Remember, what matter is a working design.

Trust me you are not the first one to bring up this issue, these issues had been discussed..... perhaps from the second page of JFT thread and you are certainly not last.
For a change........how about learning about what JFT has to offer after integrating all those parts.
It never bothered me where the paint or tiers come from!
What bother's me is spoiling a geniun and my favorite thread.

JFT is an A$$ buster and Pakistan is a co-designer, co-producer, co-financier and co-operator and nothing would change that.

yeap,,not even the cross border trolls we have been facing since day 1

however i guess we muct give Mr. V Cheng a bit more time.
rather then accusing him of being troll we must guid him to better sources to study in debth the JFT prospects and what this bird means to PAF.
you have been right in pointing out the fact that it is our product and we are proud of it.
let us make other Pakistanis think the same,but, by debate..

@ V-Cheng
why dont you havea look on previous threads related to JFT, this would give to a good indight to the progam.
otherwise, you can find a lot of people who will be willing to help out.
to say the truth, Batman and AntiBody will be among the first ones to help you out.

regards!

 

[VCheng]

yeap,,not even the cross border trolls we have been facing since day 1

however i guess we muct give Mr. V Cheng a bit more time.
rather then accusing him of being troll we must guid him to better sources to study in debth the JFT prospects and what this bird means to PAF.
you have been right in pointing out the fact that it is our product and we are proud of it.
let us make other Pakistanis think the same,but, by debate..

@ V-Cheng
why dont you havea look on previous threads related to JFT, this would give to a good indight to the progam.
otherwise, you can find a lot of people who will be willing to help out.
to say the truth, Batman and AntiBody will be among the first ones to help you out.

regards!

Thank you for that post.

So far, none of the sources quoted are sufficient to substantially change any of the statements that I have made here.

I do appreciate any and all help, but my opinions shall remain as independent and fair as I can possibly make them. I do have the knowledge base upon which to base my conclusions.

Use of adjectives like "a$$ buster" to describe an aircraft may give the impression, to some, that it is either childish, or ignorant, or both, and does not bode well for the quality of any discussion that may or may not ensue.

I have clearly stated many times that this aircraft and its associated programs are an important step forward for the PAF, and the specifications are eminently suited to the role with which this plane will be entrusted by the PAF.

There is no need to be emotionally defensive about any real or potential shortcomings of the entire project. It will develop further, of that I am sure.

PAF's history proves that beyond a doubt.

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/19930-paf-shouldve-invested-more-j-10s.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool.html

the sources here are past senior paf personnel or engineers in kamra.-- go through the above threads and youll know some of those people -- you can ask them directly in personel msg or open up a new thread [if not posted earlier ] and ask them to give there experienced input.

i never doubted your credentials -- i just consider them a bit outdated e.g a year

regarding aircraft designs , well taimi has discussed it-- you can tell what you see non practical / baseless and we can have a concentrated discussion on that.

regarding sabre evolution-- well , frankly, i dont care-- just compare all the specs with gripen/f16 blk15 -- jf17 blk2 hopefully have better avionics and compostes will end up giving even better thrust to wt ration--- jabar1 and murad k , already indicated it to be above .99

JF-17s would not only allow PAF to counter numbers, but also allow her to maintain larger numbers of FC-20s and F-16s for war-time and lower their depreciation - providing a low cost training aircraft to fly liberally during peacetime. This would be a similar arrangement to how the Israeli Air Force uses F-16s to keep meet the flight time allocations of its F-15 pilots.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Jf 17 is basically a last ditch effort by an agency to keep its head above the water---this agency has been a failure for the last 30 + years---.

This agency aka PAF has failed the nation so many times that it is a wonder that it still has a fan club that calls out its name out and loud.

I guess that when you have nothing better---you get to hold onto what precious little is left.

My comments are based upon what the agency was able to and capable of doing---. It has sold itself short---it has had a difficult time making up its mind what to and what not to---in the time it had to think about future ventures----it was busy in tooting its horn as to how good its flyers were---.

Today---it should have been 20 years ahead of where it is now all excuses set aside---it is a victimof its self praise----.

It got so carried away in that grandstanding gesture that it forgot all about the job at hand.

We are a victim of our over indulgences in talking big about our fly boyz---it gets real hard to talk down to them and hold them accountable.

Pakistanis----our best against their best---it doesnot work out that way.

 

[VCheng]

Are there any updates to the SD-10A integration, or about how the WS-13 development is progressing?

 

[muse]

This agency aka PAF has failed the nation so many times that it is a wonder that it still has a fan club that calls out its name out and loud.

That's rather a curious statement, especially when offered without any evidence for such claims -- Please do elaborate, how, who, when and where have such failures hurt not just the PAF but also the nation - perhaps this thread is not ideal for such a exposition - but I'm sure your point of view is important and many will want to understand the issue further.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

any further good news about jf-17?

 

[Jigs]

Hi,

Jf 17 is basically a last ditch effort by an agency to keep its head above the water---this agency has been a failure for the last 30 + years---.

This agency aka PAF has failed the nation so many times that it is a wonder that it still has a fan club that calls out its name out and loud.

I guess that when you have nothing better---you get to hold onto what precious little is left.

My comments are based upon what the agency was able to and capable of doing---. It has sold itself short---it has had a difficult time making up its mind what to and what not to---in the time it had to think about future ventures----it was busy in tooting its horn as to how good its flyers were---.

Today---it should have been 20 years ahead of where it is now all excuses set aside---it is a victimof its self praise----.

It got so carried away in that grandstanding gesture that it forgot all about the job at hand.

We are a victim of our over indulgences in talking big about our fly boyz---it gets real hard to talk down to them and hold them accountable.

Pakistanis----our best against their best---it doesnot work out that way.

Well there is one factor in all this i think. Budget. JF-17 is low cost 4th gen replacement for aging 3rd gen fleet. Through various upgrades they will be kept for a long time. PAF will fall behind in this period though. Modernizing to full 4th generation and producing 150 initial JF-17s will take a while. During this time most countries would be in a 4.5/5 gen environment. Still the induction of more F-16s and modernization of older ones will keep PAF capable in their defensive role. The technological edge will not be on their side though simply because pakistan is not in a state to put multibillion dollar tenders for 4.5/5 gen aircraft.

 

[graphican]

@MastanKhan,

Sir,

Where I tend to agree with you in terms of PAF's inductions, I also want to express my disagreement with the feeling that you tried to portray about PAF in the post above. I cannot recall a single incident in which this force didn't prove itself or had let the Nation down. May be not every issue that is in your history carrying mind is in my memory but what ever I recall and to whatever degree I learned, it is a force to reckon with.

You are Mashallah a very senior member and this is great opportunity for people like me to learn from seniors but please allow me to express that where overconfidence over our abilities is what this Nation doesn't need, under-confidence is not any better either. I hope in few words and respectfully so, I am able to convey what I wanted to convey.

 

[graphican]

any further good news about jf-17?

If there is no bad news, its the good news. BUT, you will be able to see a lot more and in-depth analysis/ possibilities and predictions in a months time. JFTs are about to perform!

 

[Stealth_fighter]

If there is no bad news, its the good news

clever ans bro,,i like it man...