JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[MastanKhan]

i don't know who hack accont of sir mastan these days.lol

Hi,

How did you know---a few days ago everytime I tried to get to the website---it will take me to a hard core porno site---so I talked to webby---he reccommended a solution that worked---.


Now both of us are watching the **** for free------. ( just kidding about the watching part ---rest is true )

First the news about the french was disheartening then finding out that the current jet won't have bvr either that just blew it apart----.


I was doing some research---and I have some bad news for you guys---it is regarding the india nuclear sub---if what I have read is true to some extent---our naval fleet has issues.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Hi,

How did you know---a few days ago everytime I tried to get to the website---it will take me to a hard core porno site---so I talked to webby---he reccommended a solution that worked---.


Now both of us are watching the **** for free------.

First the news about the french was disheartening then finding out that the current jet won't have bvr either that just blew it apart----.


I was doing some research---and I have some bad news for you guys---it is regarding the india nuclear sub---if what I have read is true to some extent---our naval fleet has issues.

Mastanji...can we keep the N-sub and sub fleet out...I am happily enjoying the posts here...and dont wanna have trollers and flamers here deviating from the topic.

 

[MastanKhan]

1- Pakistan will not strike India first because they don't have enough resources and the stance of our armed forces has always been defensive.

2- India will also not attack Pakistan because,
(a) They have no motive except may be show of power.
(b) India also knows that even if we do not use Nukes our armed
forces are no pushovers and will be able to fight back.
(c) Economically speaking, Indian economy is currently growing
and they are attracting a lot of foreign investment these days.
I am sure they will understand that in case of a war some of
these, if not all, investment opportunities will be lost.



Well if that is the case and India knows it than God help us. Lets just arrange a mass suicide because we are already done for. Thanks for letting the Indians know by the way.


Yes i understand Pakistan should have asked for more when we started the WOT, what you don't understand is that Beggars cannot be choosers. What we Pakistanis do not understand is that instead of offering us a deal, USA could so easily have stomped on us to get through to Afghanistan and we couldn't have stopped them. Whatever deal we got was a bonus.



Man you are amazing, you think the whole Indian nation and Army have based their confidence on one fighter plane? And they will attack us only because of their confidence in SU-30.



My last para meant to ask you what you are gaining from this discussion? I understand your frustration that JF-17 is not at par with SU-30 (Which it was never meant to be) and is not yet BVR capable (Which the seniors have explained why not)

Hi,

Thanks for your response---indeed the psyche of the indians had reached new heights after excercise cope india---. The boost that gave to iaf and indian psyche was like a much need aphrodisiac---or a much needed shot of TESTOSTERONE. It was the final catalyst---the trump card---it is their Achiles warrior---.

India is a land of myths and legends---and none greater than the Su 30 in this day and age.

We don't need to arrange mass suicide---what need to do is to do the unpredictable----make peace with india---get rid of the nukes----allow the world to payoff your loans---allow them to reward you with cash influx and investments.

Time of war is no more for pakistan---pakistan cannot and must not cross the threshold of the fires of nuclear holocaust----we must not go down in the books of history as a nation that launched the nukes---.

In the long run---we will come out as winners---pakistan---a nation that has been created 60 plus years ago---is not going to vanish in thin air---nations and nationhoods once created---they never disappear---.

As for indian investments---the investor won't go away this time---they know that india has a "job to do"---pakistan has a bad rap all over the world ---in the end---india will gain much---.

Again---we misjudged how much u s needed us---there was no reason that the u s would stomp on us to get to afg---why ask for more trouble---you get more bees with honey---we forgot that america loves the underdog---we could have played the weaker card and dug our teeth in like a chihuahua.

Pakistan needed an american car salesman's mentality---they knew not who they were dealing with.

About the JF 17----there is no doubt that one day it is going to be a potent aircraft---but first-----the pilots of F 16 BLK 52 will have to come out and say so---and not the pilots ofolder F 16'S.

p s---I was expecting a different answer---my thinking is that you initially wanted to say something else---!

 

[Mani2020]

1- Pakistan will not strike India first because they don't have enough resources and the stance of our armed forces has always been defensive.

2- India will also not attack Pakistan because,
(a) They have no motive except may be show of power.
(b) India also knows that even if we do not use Nukes our armed
forces are no pushovers and will be able to fight back.
(c) Economically speaking, Indian economy is currently growing
and they are attracting a lot of foreign investment these days.
I am sure they will understand that in case of a war some of
these, if not all, investment opportunities will be lost.



Well if that is the case and India knows it than God help us. Lets just arrange a mass suicide because we are already done for. Thanks for letting the Indians know by the way.


Yes i understand Pakistan should have asked for more when we started the WOT, what you don't understand is that Beggars cannot be choosers. What we Pakistanis do not understand is that instead of offering us a deal, USA could so easily have stomped on us to get through to Afghanistan and we couldn't have stopped them. Whatever deal we got was a bonus.



Man you are amazing, you think the whole Indian nation and Army have based their confidence on one fighter plane? And they will attack us only because of their confidence in SU-30.



My last para meant to ask you what you are gaining from this discussion? I understand your frustration that JF-17 is not at par with SU-30 (Which it was never meant to be) and is not yet BVR capable (Which the seniors have explained why not)

Hi,

Thanks for your response---indeed the psyche of the indians had reached new heights after excercise cope india---. The boost that gave to iaf and indian psyche was like a much need aphrodisiac---or a much needed shot of TESTOSTERONE. It was the final catalyst---the trump card---it is their Achiles warrior---.

India is a land of myths and legends---and none greater than the Su 30 in this day and age.

We don't need to arrange mass suicide---what need to do is to do the unpredictable----make peace with india---get rid of the nukes----allow the world to payoff your loans---allow them to reward you with cash influx and investments.

Time of war is no more for pakistan---pakistan cannot and must not cross the threshold of the fires of nuclear holocaust----we must not go down in the books of history as a nation that launched the nukes---.

In the long run---we will come out as winners---pakistan---a nation that has been created 60 plus years ago---is not going to vanish in thin air---nations and nationhoods once created---they never disappear---.

As for indian investments---the investor won't go away this time---they know that india has a "job to do"---pakistan has a bad rap all over the world ---in the end---india will gain much---.

Again---we misjudged how much u s needed us---there was no reason that the u s would stomp on us to get to afg---why ask for more trouble---you get more bees with honey---we forgot that america loves the underdog---we could have played the weaker card and dug our teeth in like a chihuahua.

Pakistan needed an american car salesman's mentality---they knew not who they were dealing with.

About the JF 17----there is no doubt that one day it is going to be a potent aircraft---but first-----the pilots of F 16 BLK 52 will have to come out and say so---and not the pilots ofolder F 16'S.

p s---I was expecting a different answer---my thinking is that you initially wanted to say something else---!

Mastan Khan ,

you are treating indians like HAWAS ,what you think is based upon your perceptions and the side of the picture you are looking at its not necessary that the reality is same

If you are pointing at different videos on you tube then let me point at one of them also you must have gone through the videos of an indian news channel the title of that video was " Indian airforce riddled with duds" In that program they showed the videos of indian airforce failures of lanuching missiles plus the failure of missiles to hit the targets and some of the missiles never blasted,many high ranked officers were invited in that program including an Airforce person who was the part of 1965 war he said "When i was flying in 1965 war i got a chance to fire and shoot down f-86sabre but my gun jammed n i missed a chance of shooting that sabre"

So you can conclude two thing from that 1) the maintenance quality of IAF which is also evident from there past record of crashes , even they have crashed mirage2k which is the safest plane in world to fly n have least crash records
2) The spirtual powers who protect you (unless and untill you have strong belief and you are a good muslim you will not understand it)

I dont want to repeat that 1965 war incidents which even amazed the IAF pilots

Throughout the history we never had edge over india militarily when you look at 1965 we had f-86 sabres which were never given a chance by analysts against Hawker hunters and Gnats

 

[SQ8]

Mastan Khan ,

you are treating indians like HAWAS ,what you think is based upon your perceptions and the side of the picture you are looking at its not necessary that the reality is same

If you are pointing at different videos on you tube then let me point at one of them also you must have gone through the videos of an indian news channel the title of that video was " Indian airforce riddled with duds" In that program they showed the videos of indian airforce failures of lanuching missiles plus the failure of missiles to hit the targets and some of the missiles never blasted,many high ranked officers were invited in that program including an Airforce person who was the part of 1965 war he said "When i was flying in 1965 war i got a chance to fire and shoot down f-86sabre but my gun jammed n i missed a chance of shooting that sabre"

So you can conclude two thing from that 1) the maintenance quality of IAF which is also evident from there past record of crashes , even they have crashed mirage2k which is the safest plane in world to fly n have least crash records
2) The spirtual powers who protect you (unless and untill you have strong belief and you are a good muslim you will not understand it)

I dont want to repeat that 1965 war incidents which even amazed the IAF pilots

Throughout the history we never had edge over india militarily when you look at 1965 we had f-86 sabres which were never given a chance by analysts against Hawker hunters and Gnats

Thats the sort of nationalistic crap we have been fed by our history books thanks to Mr Ayub Khan and his cohorts. They fed us this "victory" crap to hide their own pathetic actions and virtual "suicide" they committed for Pakistan.

You want a fair and Unbiased account read "Indo-Pak Air war of 1965" by Samir Chopra and Jagan Mohan. Or if you have trouble trusting Indian accounts then read "Flight of the falcon" by Acdre Sajjad Haider of Pathankot fame.

Unlike us the Indians learn their lessons, They were much better in 71 because they learnt from 65, and they will be much much better now.

2ndly, the french have crashed countless mirage 2k's, so have the emirates. How is that the safest plane? Please look into ejectionhistory.org.uk to find out the reasons for crashed.
And recently the IAf has improved its attrition a lot.

your second comment would make sense if there were actually any accounts of Muslims winning resounding victories recently. Wonder what spiritual powers protected the spartans when they bloodied the persian army?? If your argument is to be taken valid then if not for the lax on part of the Mughals and the Ottomans drowning themselves in luxury and ignoring the promotion of science, Armies of Muslim empires were amongst the best equipped and with a high standard of training.

There is no need to cower in our homes and be scared of the Indians. But there is a need to dish out the concept of "One Pakistani is as good as a hundred Indians" and learn from our mistakes and hope we dont make new ones.

 

[mean_bird]

If JF-17 avoinics are better than J-10's then why PAF is looking for French avoinics ?? And J-10b's Avoinics are still inferior to JF-17 and that is gona be ur frontline fighter after few yrs ??

Will you care to explain on this ??

I just said JF-17's avionics were built at a later stage and are "expected to be" better than those on J10 built earlier, if not for anything else than for the rate at which electronic devices are improving.

Where does france comes into the picture? did they develop the avionics of J10 or what?

And please don't put words into my mouth...we are talking about J10 (or J10A if you like) because J10b does not officially exist and no one would be talking about it.

Hi,

This video about the chinese talking about j10 is very recent. It is to be understood by default that when he talks about the comparison between the F 16's he is talking in comparison to the best that the j 10 has to offer yet to date.

J 10 is the pride of the chinese air fleet---could the person be prejudicial to the F 16 and the m2K ---could be---it is but natural to vow his own fighter the most and the f 16 not as much and bring down the m2k further down. Putting the J 10 right in the middle will boost the moral of the public and the armed forces---.

The M2K lovers would say---hey---this is a proven platform---we have taken out the F 16 mano a mano---actually we are the only one who have done that---that analysis is prejudicial.

I mean to say--people want to hear good news---now don't they---haven't the paksitanis talked big about their equipment---the jf 17 against the su 30.

Coming back---when the chinese talks about the fire control package---he is obviously talking about the best that j 10 has to offer---not the older out dated one---now comparatively---the fire control package in jf 17 is not in the same league as that of the operational j 10. Our current fire control package cannot shoot the sd 10's. The j 10 is an operational bvr plane---with years of service under its belt---.

Until and unless pak has an operational sqdrn for at least two to three years with bvr's till then you cannot truly judge this new system.

People you need to learn to be FAIR TO YOURSELVES AND TO YOUR COUNTRY. When you jump on the band wagon of rarararara the truth then tends to hide---. When you hide the truth---you are being unfair to the country.

Mastan Sahib,

Firstly, the J10 with PLAAF are the J10A. The so-called J10b has not officially been acknowledged and is neither with PLAAF at the current time...just with CAC. So its pretty much the J10A he's talking about.

And please point to me where I went "rararara" with my points at any point in time in my posts?

True - lets be fair! lets be fair to our country and all other countries. That means we are not biased towards it but also not against it.

 

[ice_man]

great posts by everyone BUT somehow what i find common amongst BR & this website these days is BIAS & over confidence!!


NO ONE SHOULD UNDER ESTIMATE ITS ENEMY!!

and by stating that the JF-17s can take on SU-30s is total madness!!! from pakistanis!

& indians claiming that the F-16 BLK52s are no match for their SU-30s is naive from their end!!


both sides struggle with the problem that occurred prior to WORLD WAR 1 or prior to 65 WAR! in WW1 the germans as well as the british had SUPERIORITY complex! 65 was the same for india & pakistan!!

 

[Cent4]

Hi,

Thanks for your response---indeed the psyche of the indians had reached new heights after excercise cope india---. The boost that gave to iaf and indian psyche was like a much need aphrodisiac---or a much needed shot of TESTOSTERONE. It was the final catalyst---the trump card---it is their Achiles warrior---.

India is a land of myths and legends---and none greater than the Su 30 in this day and age.

We don't need to arrange mass suicide---what need to do is to do the unpredictable----make peace with india---get rid of the nukes----allow the world to payoff your loans---allow them to reward you with cash influx and investments.

Time of war is no more for pakistan---pakistan cannot and must not cross the threshold of the fires of nuclear holocaust----we must not go down in the books of history as a nation that launched the nukes---.

In the long run---we will come out as winners---pakistan---a nation that has been created 60 plus years ago---is not going to vanish in thin air---nations and nationhoods once created---they never disappear---.

As for indian investments---the investor won't go away this time---they know that india has a "job to do"---pakistan has a bad rap all over the world ---in the end---india will gain much---.

Again---we misjudged how much u s needed us---there was no reason that the u s would stomp on us to get to afg---why ask for more trouble---you get more bees with honey---we forgot that america loves the underdog---we could have played the weaker card and dug our teeth in like a chihuahua.

Pakistan needed an american car salesman's mentality---they knew not who they were dealing with.

About the JF 17----there is no doubt that one day it is going to be a potent aircraft---but first-----the pilots of F 16 BLK 52 will have to come out and say so---and not the pilots ofolder F 16'S.

p s---I was expecting a different answer---my thinking is that you initially wanted to say something else---!

Hi
Sir what I believe is that nobody can justify the use of nukes religiously or ethically on any country by any one.
But we can not get rid off the nukes at the moment they are the only one preventing a war.
Are you trying to say that actually if we (Or any Nation) do not have the ''MODERN EQUIPMENT'' (which we dont have) to fight to protect themselves or their interests should make peace with the aggressor or surrender without even fighting.

I dont want to go into the early Islamic history you might know better than me. they didnt had the modern equipment of that time and were out numbered but they defeated the enemy.

I am not preaching anything here.
But we should look into ourselves what is wrong in us.
They had the courage they had a firm belief and they were one the right path. we dont have any thing we just want ''Modern Equipment''.

when there is corruption in the society when there is no unity in the nation. No nation can win a war.

What we need the most of all is an Eye opener event any disaster or you can say even a defeat in a war.

 

[hataf]

Hi
Sir what I believe is that nobody can justify the use of nukes religiously or ethically on any country by any one.
But we can not get rid off the nukes at the moment they are the only one preventing a war.
Are you trying to say that actually if we (Or any Nation) do not have the ''MODERN EQUIPMENT'' (which we dont have) to fight to protect themselves or their interests should make peace with the aggressor or surrender without even fighting.

I dont want to go into the early Islamic history you might know better than me. they didnt had the modern equipment of that time and were out numbered but they defeated the enemy.

I am not preaching anything here.
But we should look into ourselves what is wrong in us.
They had the courage they had a firm belief and they were one the right path. we dont have any thing we just want ''Modern Equipment''.

when there is corruption in the society when there is no unity in the nation. No nation can win a war.

What we need the most of all is an Eye opener event any disaster or you can say even a defeat in a war.

Sound of my heart also......

 

[hataf]

seen this animated video on you tube thought you might like the configuration

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi
Sir what I believe is that nobody can justify the use of nukes religiously or ethically on any country by any one.
But we can not get rid off the nukes at the moment they are the only one preventing a war.
Are you trying to say that actually if we (Or any Nation) do not have the ''MODERN EQUIPMENT'' (which we dont have) to fight to protect themselves or their interests should make peace with the aggressor or surrender without even fighting.

I dont want to go into the early Islamic history you might know better than me. they didnt had the modern equipment of that time and were out numbered but they defeated the enemy.

I am not preaching anything here.
But we should look into ourselves what is wrong in us.
They had the courage they had a firm belief and they were one the right path. we dont have any thing we just want ''Modern Equipment''.

when there is corruption in the society when there is no unity in the nation. No nation can win a war.

What we need the most of all is an Eye opener event any disaster or you can say even a defeat in a war.

Hi,

Discussions are like wild tangents which take their own direction.

There are so many different ways to defeat the enemy and not all require bloodshed.

In any kind of deal making---timing is everything. We must always negotiate from the position of strength.

The bottomline is---We will negotiate one day---no ifs and buts about that---do we negotiate when we are in a stronger position with all our millitary might intact less some compromises---or when we are under duress and forced to make peace.

Then men of past had a strength of character of their own---at times they may be less in numbers---but the weapons on both the sides of the conflict were the same---till the 1500's. Before that, both sides showed up with swords and arrows and seige guns---whomsoever was hungry and raving for the loot and plunder---maal a ghanimat---won the battle most of the time. After the 14th century you hardly ever see a victory against a better opponent.

 

[Cent4]

Hi,

Discussions are like wild tangents which take their own direction.

There are so many different ways to defeat the enemy and not all require bloodshed.

In any kind of deal making---timing is everything. We must always negotiate from the position of strength.

The bottomline is---We will negotiate one day---no ifs and buts about that---do we negotiate when we are in a stronger position with all our millitary might intact less some compromises---or when we are under duress and forced to make peace.

Then men of past had a strength of character of their own---at times they may be less in numbers---but the weapons on both the sides of the conflict were the same---till the 1500's. Before that, both sides showed up with swords and arrows and seige guns---whomsoever was hungry and raving for the loot and plunder---maal a ghanimat---won the battle most of the time. After the 14th century you hardly ever see a victory against a better opponent.

Hi
Well I dont agree with the bold part at all. History is bit distorted but not that much. my humble opinion to you sir would be that go through some authentic books.
In them you would see a strong belief they were a part of nation they were not corrupt they have the direction they have an aim.
In us not even a single thing exist.

maal a ghanimat was not the aim sir. but we have an example which say that when muslims went for that they lost the war. read some thing about the second GHAZWA.

I completely agree with your following statement

There are so many different ways to defeat the enemy and not all require bloodshed

I would request you to please read some thing about
Che Guevara
Hugo Chávez
Raúl Castro
Fidel Castro
and specifically about La Batalla de Girón ( Bay of Pigs Invasion 1961)

how the great USA was defeated in overthrowing the govt of a small country.

In all above mentioned people you will see a direction an aim. which unfortunately we lack.

 

[Indian-Devil]

I just said JF-17's avionics were built at a later stage and are "expected to be" better than those on J10 built earlier, if not for anything else than for the rate at which electronic devices are improving.

Where does france comes into the picture? did they develop the avionics of J10 or what?

And please don't put words into my mouth...we are talking about J10 (or J10A if you like) because J10b does not officially exist and no one would be talking about it.

I was talking abt avoinics package for JF-17 only not J-10A and all knows abt that PAF was looking for French avoinics and that deal later didnot go thru. My only concern was if the Avoinics on JF-17 "expected" to be better than J-10A because these were designed later then why they are still looking for new avoinics for JF-17.

 

[Safron Slayer]

The answer of ur question is simple. Your MKI's are superb as you guys always mention..then why are u going for MMRCA and not for more MKIs. PAF dont want to put all eggs in one basket. PAF wants MBDA mica and other missiles which can only be integrated with French fire control radar and supported by french avionics. French would not allow their missiles to be integrated with chinese radar. By the way that package was only for the batch of 50 JFs.

 

[Dazzler]

PAF assigned the task to AWC for developing an indigenous Electronic Warfare system for jf-17 that should be capable enough to counter any threat posed by the enemy along with WMMC (weapon and mission management computer) , SMC (Stores management system), SHUD (Smart Heads Up Display) and SCS (Secure Communications System). This EW is being tested on thunder along with other local systems. It is expected to make jf-17 a lethal system for adversary in any confrontation scenario. Although at the moment Thunder is already ahead of the rest of PAF fleet (Until blk 52s and FC-20s come), it is interesting that it will remain a mainstay fighter filling the medium slot but with added punch and lethality as PAF wants it to be. Still, considering it as a high end system is not accurate.