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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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I think we should go for advancement in the thunder or otherwise just don't waste money on 4th generation... look the threat is FGFA and even in future may be MCA and plus existing MKI and mRCA.... Ok thunder can handle Mig29, mirage2000, MRCA , LCA, and to soem extent with advance systems MKI but what about FGFA???? We should go for stealth techs.... there is no choice left..... We have a great threat already...
 
If the deal is struk for a $1 billion dollars with french what will be the cost effectiveness of the plane as it will no longer cost $18-$20 million

please try to use calculator. minus the cost of existing chinese systems that french systems will replace. if thunder cost 12ml then minus the chinese systems cost and add french system's 13 ml cost i think thunder will still be most low cost fighter in the world and with modren western systems.
 
TK the final price tag will be around US30m/ac = even then pls buy me a western a/c for that price - forget it - all new western ac will start from a base price of US 50m.

JF-17 is a great bargain even at 30m!:pakistan:

May be sir, but i believe with 100% airframe production in house, the cost of the aircraft will get down considerably, as in western aircrafts, the major cost of the aircraft comes from the cost used up on the human resource, as they pay their workforce in dollars, while on this side of the border you know how things work and western companies have the profit margin too, which would not be there in our case with the in house production.

French contract if its said what it is, consists of a lot of things, which may not give us the true price per aircraft.

But anyhow, 30M isn't a bad cost figure too.
 

Thunder the jewel in :victory:Pakistan Airforce :victory:
 
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TK the final price tag will be around US30m/ac = even then pls buy me a western a/c for that price - forget it - all new western ac will start from a base price of US 50m.

JF-17 is a great bargain even at 30m!:pakistan:



I think i have to agree on this one as no other fighter is less than $50 million and the freedom of logistics that u will enjoy
 
It is probably the need to blend in Russian tech with Nato tech and get behind with latest Western equipment rather than just because of weighing fighter capability of Su30 with MRCA contenders.
Hi Sapper, you are partly right, it's about getting different fighters, with different capabilities, for different roles. USAF for example don't has only F22s, they will get numbers of F35 to supplement it too, just like PAF now gets JF 17 to supplement the more capable F16s and possibly J10s in future.
But this example doesn't fit to JF 17, because although the avaionics and weapons will differ, it will be mainly the same fighter in the first to blocks. Block 3 could be pretty different with not only technical differences, but changes at the airframe too (that's what I read here often).

The problem is that while Chinese equipment may be good enough, it does not support off the shelf American and NATO weapons, which french avionics does, besides providing best insight into the future of Western Avionics and weapons. Do remember that Pakistan will be having large stocks of Harpoons, South African Python Variants, Brizillian Anti Radiation missiles and American Amraams and Targeting/Jamming Pods in future which cannot be used (off-the-shelf) with JF-17s if we stick to All-Chinese configurations. PAF is not saying we dislike Chinese tech and want to go French tech, rather that along with Chinese tech, we would also like to have western tech as well.
If "off the shelf" means that PAF can simply put these weapons on JF 17, only because the radar and avionics are French, you are mistaken. Take the Rafale for example, it is (AFAIK) since F2 standard wired to use weapons like US AMRAAM missiles, or Paveway bombs, but although these are common NATO weapons, they have to be integrated before one can use them. Dassault stated before that any foreign customers who wants to use AMRAAM on Rafale can do so, if they pay for reconfiguring the software and the weapon test that are needed. Recently there was an article about UAE and the Rafale that says, if UAE buys these fighters, they would want the integration of SLAM ER instead of Exocet missiles. So even completely French fighters with latest radar and avionics, can't simply use weapons from other origin that are not integrated.
So unless Harpoon for example wasn't integrated before for that radar and avionics, it can't be use it so easy.

If simply JF-17s were to get French AESA and same tech level RWR+IFF+ECM (which i am not saying they are), it will by definition go past the current Bl-52 configuration for F16 in terms of avionics (not TWR and Weapons Load since its smaller). So hypothetically its possible, but practically speaking its probably a waste of money for an aircraft intended for Work-Horse role and not air-superiority role.

Exactly, but such techs are planed only for JF 17 block 3 if I'm not wrong, but he was talking about the JF 17 with the French package that the second batch/block should get, that's why I asked.
 
If deal with egypt kicks-in and luckily other nations follow up.. block 3 has to be a design revamp something between F-16 blk 52-Blk 60 both from design perspective and from avionics/radar package. The world is moving towards advance 4+, 4.5 and 5th generation..it is early but by 2015+ onwards block 3 has to bring in new design and F-16 will always be an inspiration for that design.
blk 1 is pure avionics/radar where as blk 2 is going to be upgrades avionics/radar..
 
If deal with egypt kicks-in and luckily other nations follow up.. block 3 has to be a design revamp something between F-16 blk 52-Blk 60 both from design perspective and from avionics/radar package. The world is moving towards advance 4+, 4.5 and 5th generation..it is early but by 2015+ onwards block 3 has to bring in new design and F-16 will always be an inspiration for that design.
blk 1 is pure avionics/radar where as blk 2 is going to be upgrades avionics/radar..

well sir along with the avionics upgrade what about the manoevrability of the next batch . i have read in this forum and in other forum that even the current batch of jf-17 are being using considerable number of composite material which will reduce its weight and might have
increase its twr significantly even with its relatively weak engine .
what you think about it ? aren't it may bring it in with the almost same capability as f-16 block 52 except weapons load ?:undecided:
 
I think we should go for advancement in the thunder or otherwise just don't waste money on 4th generation... look the threat is FGFA and even in future may be MCA and plus existing MKI and mRCA.... Ok thunder can handle Mig29, mirage2000, MRCA , LCA, and to soem extent with advance systems MKI but what about FGFA???? We should go for stealth techs.... there is no choice left..... We have a great threat already...

thunder is a replacement for the all third generation non bvr fighter of your air force . as your enemy is having around 500+ 4.5 -4.5++ aircraft i think after inducting couple of squadron i thick paf should focus towards a 4.5 generation variant of jf-17 .

to handle fgfa only option is j-xx :pakistan::china:
 
well sir along with the avionics upgrade what about the manoevrability of the next batch . i have read in this forum and in other forum that even the current batch of jf-17 are being using considerable number of composite material which will reduce its weight and might have
increase its twr significantly even with its relatively weak engine .
what you think about it ? aren't it may bring it in with the almost same capability as f-16 block 52 except weapons load ?:undecided:

the new additions such as
IRF
IRST
use of more composite materials
and above all a new engine will boost its capability alot as current engine is relatively weaker
 
Air Chief witnesses progress on exercise High Mark-2010


ISLAMABAD, March 16 (APP), Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman on Tuesday visited two Forward Operating Bases of PAF, to witness the progress of on-going Exercise High Mark-2010. The Exercise is in full swing and the entire Air Force is engaged in operations in near realistic training environment.

The CAS saw airmen engaged in the exercise while addressing at one of the Forward Operating Bases, the Air Chief said that “Exercise High Mark 2010” is not aimed against any country and that the mission of PAF is to ensure peace, with honor. History teaches us that peace cannot be maintained from a position of weakness”. Air Chief further said that “Exercise is aimed at demonstrating PAF’s capabilities and resolve with honor in the region.”

Earlier in the day for the first time JF-17 Thunder aircraft were put through their paces in the stringent air environment that has been orchestrated to ensure realism in the exercise. The recently induced JF-17 Thunder would be put to test by undertaking entire spectrum of air operations during High Mark, 2010.


Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Air Chief witnesses progress on exercise High Mark-2010
 
How exactly the RCS for the jf-17?

I think half of F16. and if more stealthy features applied and more composite materials used even less.... because its a small fighter so less RCS.
 
thunder is a replacement for the all third generation non bvr fighter of your air force . as your enemy is having around 500+ 4.5 -4.5++ aircraft i think after inducting couple of squadron i thick paf should focus towards a 4.5 generation variant of jf-17 .

to handle fgfa only option is j-xx :pakistan::china:

Yes we should go for it even i think go for joint project if not 50 50 then atleast 25% .... and beyond 150 thunders more advance techs should be used... ok we are replacing older jets but the new ones should be worthy enough in the future so that we should have less dependance on others.
 
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