JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I read on this forum that Pak Pilots mentioned that after flying the JF17 thunder they opted to apply for flying the thunder as oppose to F16 A/B so clearly they have seen vast amount of difference in term of flying a new jet vs one made in 80's

I believe that Chinese Avionics will reack its pinnicle in next 4-8 years , as they are already improving leaps and bounds in next 4-8 years they will definitly be 10-30% more enhanced

Thunder is just a superior plane

 

[Mani2020]

I was reading an article ( the article was from defenceaviation.com)and i came across these lines ,wanted to share in the forum


"In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. "

 

[mean_bird]

^^ originated from "rupeenews.com" (or was it strategypage?).

In either case, nothing more than fanboy stuff.

 

[sancho]

Yeah the figure was quoted by the official manufacturers when it was shown to the world. But its been nearly 4-5 years since then, hopefully the specifications would have been much improved by now, becoz as per inside information, the JF-17s with PAF do not have the original KLJ-7 radars, but something else and much better.

Although I don't underestimate Chinese capabilities, if the KJ-7 would be much better now, PAF would definitely buy more than just 50 x JF 17 with that radar don't you think? They would try to get a mix of that radar with French EWS and some weapons possibly, which would be easier to get and at lower costs than a complete French package.
The fact that PAF planed from the start with western radars and techs and would get the same for J10 too, says something about their opinion regarding the Chinese radars (at least for the gen of mutli mode radar, maybe the AESA radar development could offere better).

Friends, there is a reason why Pakistan is pushing French for top notch equipment. The previous offer by Sagem was not exactly what PAF wanted and this time, French have assured that all the required equipment will be given. I mentioned in a thread what exactly PAF was looking for thunder. The plan is that we are looking for a specialized variant with best of the class equipment that WILL be more advanced than the Block 52s. Numbers will not exceed 100 units initially. Many people underestimate Chinese avionics by calling them inferior whereas this is not the case at all. PAF so far is very satisfied with current configuration of avionics and radar.

Any source for that?

Also can you explain in what terms it should be more advanced than the F16 B52s?

 

[bc040400065]

I was reading an article ( the article was from defenceaviation.com)and i came across these lines ,wanted to share in the forum


"In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. "

If true then this is great news. i think we should develop thunder more because we have a threat of fighters likes MKI and now FGFA. So develop more advance thunder rather than just inducting normal replacements of older ones. this would realy be nice if this news is true.

 

[Sapper]

Although I don't underestimate Chinese capabilities, if the KJ-7 would be much better now, PAF would definitely buy more than just 50 x JF 17 with that radar don't you think? They would try to get a mix of that radar with French EWS and some weapons possibly, which would be easier to get and at lower costs than a complete French package.
The fact that PAF planed from the start with western radars and techs and would get the same for J10 too, says something about their opinion regarding the Chinese radars (at least for the gen of mutli mode radar, maybe the AESA radar development could offere better).

Example (Not Flamer) : If Su30MKI is best aircraft in the world, second only to F22, why is India spending 12 Billion USD for less capable MRCA, why not buy the best, i.e Su30 itself. It is probably the need to blend in Russian tech with Nato tech and get behind with latest Western equipment rather than just because of weighing fighter capability of Su30 with MRCA contenders.

The problem is that while Chinese equipment may be good enough, it does not support off the shelf American and NATO weapons, which french avionics does, besides providing best insight into the future of Western Avionics and weapons. Do remember that Pakistan will be having large stocks of Harpoons, South African Python Variants, Brizillian Anti Radiation missiles and American Amraams and Targeting/Jamming Pods in future which cannot be used (off-the-shelf) with JF-17s if we stick to All-Chinese configurations. PAF is not saying we dislike Chinese tech and want to go French tech, rather that along with Chinese tech, we would also like to have western tech as well.

Also can you explain in what terms it should be more advanced than the F16 B52s?

If simply JF-17s were to get French AESA and same tech level RWR+IFF+ECM (which i am not saying they are), it will by definition go past the current Bl-52 configuration for F16 in terms of avionics (not TWR and Weapons Load since its smaller). So hypothetically its possible, but practically speaking its probably a waste of money for an aircraft intended for Work-Horse role and not air-superiority role.

So its possible, but the above statement by fellow member was probably an over-zealous fan-boy statement rather than a fact.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

A dear friend of mine who is reasonably well-versed on the subject said the original radar/avionics from first batch were all in Chinese language; this initially presented some issues for the PAF pilots -which have since been modified if i m not mistaken

 

[fatman17]

A dear friend of mine who is reasonably well-versed on the subject said the original radar/avionics from first batch were all in Chinese language; this initially presented some issues for the PAF pilots -which have since been modified if i m not mistaken

this has always been a issue - translating all chinese manuals into english is a very difficult and cumbersome task!

 

[Imran Khan]

why its reported sir its less flame then any indian flame post. i think he say not much as our nighbers write here?.

 

[Dark Angel]

If the deal is struk for a $1 billion dollars with french what will be the cost effectiveness of the plane as it will no longer cost $18-$20 million

 

[TaimiKhan]

If the deal is struk for a $1 billion dollars with french what will be the cost effectiveness of the plane as it will no longer cost $18-$20 million

If the deal is worth for 1B$s, and its for 100 planes, then the cost per plane comes to say 10M$s. So now this 10M$ cost would cover the avionics, radars, weapons, spare radars, spare parts, training, set up and most probably some level of ToPT.

So the engine costs roughly about 2-3M$s, add to it the 10M$ price tag of avionics hypothetically, becoming 13M$s, and after that you have airframe left and other extra costs, lets make it another 10M$ more, so now it becomes 23M$ per plane, for self satisfaction, take it to 25M$ per aircraft.

So now you tell me if we get a plane with state of the art avionics and weapons, which can be equal to or superior to Blk 52s, is 25M$ price tag a bad one ??

And you know well the manufacturing cost on this side of the continent is much much smaller compared to western ones.

My rough estimate is that even with the french avionics the JF-17 will cost not more then 20M$ per aircraft.

Don't think so.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The best part is FREEDOM .. freedom from Congress , freedom from being dictated , freedom from none sense

You can't part teh F16 in shielded bunkers
You can't fly the f16 to china
You can't do crazy low flying with F16
You can't open the hood for quick peak


FREEDOM ... thank god ~

 

[Myth_buster_1]

So now you tell me if we get a plane with state of the art avionics and weapons, which can be equal to or superior to Blk 52s, is 25M$ price tag a bad one ??

I dont agree to your point of JF-17 with french package being equal or superior to even MLU M3 F-16s.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well our JF17 thunder is already better then F16A/B and with the upgrades it will be better then F16 C/D , for sure becasue the technology used on board will be that which is derrivitive of ones used in Euro Fighter.



Can't wait for Chinese AESA radars !!!

 

[fatman17]

If the deal is worth for 1B$s, and its for 100 planes, then the cost per plane comes to say 10M$s. So now this 10M$ cost would cover the avionics, radars, weapons, spare radars, spare parts, training, set up and most probably some level of ToPT.

So the engine costs roughly about 2-3M$s, add to it the 10M$ price tag of avionics hypothetically, becoming 13M$s, and after that you have airframe left and other extra costs, lets make it another 10M$ more, so now it becomes 23M$ per plane, for self satisfaction, take it to 25M$ per aircraft.

So now you tell me if we get a plane with state of the art avionics and weapons, which can be equal to or superior to Blk 52s, is 25M$ price tag a bad one ??

And you know well the manufacturing cost on this side of the continent is much much smaller compared to western ones.

My rough estimate is that even with the french avionics the JF-17 will cost not more then 20M$ per aircraft.

Don't think so.

TK the final price tag will be around US30m/ac = even then pls buy me a western a/c for that price - forget it - all new western ac will start from a base price of US 50m.

JF-17 is a great bargain even at 30m!