JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Dazzler]

Confirmed and Potential buyers

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

what are the highlighted parts suppose to represent?

DARK BLUE: (pakistan and china)pruducing countries
LIGHT BLUE: purchasers

 

[owais.usmani]

some pictures from the roll out ceremony in Nov.2009:

 

[owais.usmani]

China buys Russian engines for its fighter plane​

China, which has not found a Western supplier, has decided to buy Russian engines for its FC-1 Xiaolong multirole fighter plane, a rival of Russia's MiG-29 in developing countries.
In late December 2009, Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport signed a contract with China to deliver 43 RD-93 engines, a modification of the RD-33 engines mounted on the MiG-29 planes.
Aviaport, a news agency of the Russian aircraft industry, reported yesterday that China would receive the engines by the end of the year and that the first 25 engines had been manufactured at the Chernyshev mechanical engineering enterprise in Moscow. The agency said another contract could be signed in May for 100 such engines.
A manager at one of Russia's producers of aircraft engines said the December contract was worth $160 million.
The contract has completed a framework agreement signed in 2006 to deliver 100 RD-93 engines to China. Russia has already supplied 57 such engines, said Konstantin Makiyenko, an analyst with the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.
The engines are to be mounted on the FC-1 fighter planes, which China makes for export. It signed the first contract for 150 such aircraft with Pakistan, where the fighter plane is assembled.
A more complicated and expensive fighter designed for the Chinese Air Force in the past two decades, J-10, also has a Russian engine, AL-31FN, Makiyenko said. The latest contract for the delivery of 122 such engines, worth approximately $500 million, was signed in January 2009.
The FC-1 is the biggest rival of Russia's MiG-29 Fulcrum in developing countries, the analyst said. However, the Russian plane won the first direct competition in Myanmar, which decided to buy 20 MiG-29s for 400 million euros in December 2009 even though China offered better terms for a mixed delivery of the FC-1 and J-10 planes.
"China has more than once said that it has created an engine for its planes, but this is unlikely because it continues to buy Russian engines," Makiyenko said.
China has no alternative for the Russian engines, said Mikhail Barabanov, editor-in-chief of Moscow Defense Brief. The United States will not supply such engines to China so as not to strengthen its opponent, while the EU does not deliver military equipment to China due to sanctions, he said.
According to Barabanov, the delivery of engines, which are a key element of aircraft, is a good opportunity for Russia to prevent Chinese aircraft from becoming a big rival of Russian planes.
The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong is the result of a joint Chinese-Pakistani development program that started in 1999, with each side contributing 50% of the total development cost.
Kommersant



What the Russian papers say


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[SBD-3]

But I think we have a great opportunity to find good buyers especially in Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.....there are a lot of resource strapped air forces in these regions which would love to buy....Here is a list of top fighters currently in use of different AFs in the said region

South America
Argentine Air Force-Mirage III and A-4 skylark
Peruvian Air Force- Mig-29 and Mirage 2000
Bolivian Air Force- No real fighter Aircraft
Ecuadorian Air Force- Mirage F-1 and IAI Kfir
Colombian Air Force-Mirage 5 and IAI Kfir
Uruguayan Air Force-Cessna A-37 Dragonfly
Paraguayan Air force-Embraer EMB-312 Tucano

List of Potential African Customers
Algerian AF- MiG-29 (65) (may be replaced by JF-17), SU-30 and Su35 in negociation
South African AF- only possess Grippens at the moment
Angolan Airforce- Mig-21s and Mig 23s
likewise all mig-21 operators alongwith mig-23 and 29 operators are a lucrative market

 

[mean_bird]

How can the paper claim China offered both FC-1 and J-10 to Myanmar considering they were competing against Russian planes? In other words, why would Russia supply engines to a plane that drives it out of business?

AFAIK, the engine deal was that it cannot be offered to nations where Russian hardware is contesting for a deal. OTOH, 20 Mig-29 for €400 million is pretty cheap. I wonder what after sale and other goodies it contains since those make up a major part of any deal.

Anyone got the details?

 

[SBD-3]

in case...you might know that China has started testing WS-10A on J-10 whereas WS-13 is almost ready for FC-1. we must also keep the following fact in mind that J-10 will not be exported anytime soon as CAC will be busy with PLAAF and then PAF orders (initial batch even in case of ToT) so they have ample time to test their indigenous engine. same is the case with FC-1. at first, I think China will cover the countries where it may avoid Russian resistance. then the other countries will come in play. But I think WS-13 would be operational in a year or two at max

 

[fatman17]

How can the paper claim China offered both FC-1 and J-10 to Myanmar considering they were competing against Russian planes? In other words, why would Russia supply engines to a plane that drives it out of business?

AFAIK, the engine deal was that it cannot be offered to nations where Russian hardware is contesting for a deal. OTOH, 20 Mig-29 for €400 million is pretty cheap. I wonder what after sale and other goodies it contains since those make up a major part of any deal.

Anyone got the details?

so 20m/per ac for a standard Mig-29 is ok - weapons and infrastructure will be extra.

 

[TaimiKhan]

so 20m/per ac for a standard Mig-29 is ok - weapons and infrastructure will be extra.

Sir, the 400Million figure is in Pounds, not dollars, in dollars the deal is over 600Million US$, and the deal isn't clearly clarified too. Some say its for 20 planes and weapons, some reports say there are other weapons too or another deal would be signed later too.

But for the time being it seems its a 600M US$ deal for 20 planes and weapons and parts too.

And i believe internationally Pound's value is more then Dollar. Right ???

 

[fatman17]

Sir, the 400Million figure is in Pounds, not dollars, in dollars the deal is over 600Million US$, and the deal isn't clearly clarified too. Some say its for 20 planes and weapons, some reports say there are other weapons too or another deal would be signed later too.

But for the time being it seems its a 600M US$ deal for 20 planes and weapons and parts too.

And i believe internationally Pound's value is more then Dollar. Right ???

almost double - then abt 800m for 20 a/c - comes to 40m per - sounds better!

does anyone know if these are the OVT equipped.>

 

[mean_bird]

Sir, the 400Million figure is in Pounds, not dollars,

Its in Euros not pound so around US$ 580million.

Another thing in the paper that makes it doubtful is the claim that China offered a 'mix of J-10 and FC-1'. Now who would go for two platforms (maintenance, training, tactics, suppliers, etc) for just 20 planes? That's like not even a squadron of one type of planes unless you're going for 10 planes a squadron.

 

[alikazmi007]

Any Word on when SD-10 is due in PAF Inventory?

 

[Dazzler]

Pakistan and Indonesia to Malaysia to sell JF-17 fighter (Google translated)

In the absence of a formal signature, any military procurement has a variable, let alone if it involves political considerations, procurement of Malaysia to Pakistan JF-17 fighters, but also is likely to happen

KLS Langkawi Report: Pakistan does not rule out completely in the future, so that JF-17 fighter planes appeared LIMA exhibition, and then to Malaysia and other Southeast Asian countries to sell.

Pakistan has begun production assembly of JF-17, many years ago there are news reports that Pakistan intends to sell JF-17 fighter, Malaysia.

The author during the Langkawi, and the official delegations of Pakistan to discuss the matter on many occasions, Pakistan did have such intention unilaterally.

December 23, 2009, the same official sources in Kuala Lumpur told the author, ambassador of Pakistan in the Maldives and the author Langkawi After the talks, has officially return Pakistan to seek to JF17 appearance in Southeast Asia.

In addition to selling in Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan also has the intention to sell. Do not ignore Pakistan's marketing capabilities, in recent years, Pakistan is indeed more effective than China to promote Chinese technology to produce military equipment, and Pakistan also more flexibility in the use of Western technology to improve China's weapons technology.

The same official sources also told the author, Pakistan is willing to sell to the Malaysian side of Western technology or avionics system improved JF-17 fighter.

If Pakistan to Indonesia and Malaysia, when to sell and are willing to prescribe the conditions for the transfer of production technology in Southeast Asia to set up a production line and a logistic service center, it really is Do not ignore the feasibility of the.

Furthermore, China will be willing to "neighbors as good neighbors as partners" under the principle of the political and diplomatic interests, identity and contribute to the program, so that Indonesia and Malaysia 3 Pakistan defense cooperation to the Islamic world, more further strengthen the interests of the Chinese presence in Southeast Asia.

Therefore, the JF-17 in Southeast Asia to promote the potential and prospects can not be overlooked.

As Pakistan has no such capacity, in accordance with customer's choice, the use of Western technology and systems, improved and integrated to the JF-17's problems, Russian affairs researcher Zheng Yang Wei said he was not very clear that Pakistan has no such capacity.

He said that if the R & D process perspective, FC-1/JF-17 are in charge of China, and Pakistan is responsible only for selected products, but now they have production lines in Pakistan, is not it also learned improvement is hard to say.

"But I do have some doubts. It is because the facelift avionics test equipment involved is not a simple matter, Pakistan has not had its own design aircraft, the impression has not produced."

He pointed out that after purchasing avionics equipment still have to test, and sometimes the weight changes at the event, the flight control have to be changed.

"This country will also design the aircraft was very simple, but Pakistan has just established FC-1 production line to build the initial aviation industry, so I doubt they can do."

http://www.klsreview.com/HTML/2010Ja...100104_03.html

 

[Hunter911]

A question about JF-17 fighter .
Why Pakistan to choose the radar equips with Italy styled or French styled missiles? Pakistan Air Force choose to do so , will that means to confuse the opponent, and then to achieve some strategic objectives? JF-17's original radar detection can be range up to 200 km which has beyond the F-16C's. Behind the unknown factors, JF-17 is bound to be the enemy's nightmare!

 

[TaimiKhan]

A question about JF-17 fighter .
Why Pakistan to choose the radar equips with Italy styled or French styled missiles? Pakistan Air Force choose to do so , will that means to confuse the opponent, and then to achieve some strategic objectives? JF-17's original radar detection can be range up to 200 km which has beyond the F-16C's. Behind the unknown factors, JF-17 is bound to be the enemy's nightmare!

Avionics systems from western sources or Chinese sources, the final decision would be based on the availability of the best. As with avionics we are gonna go for weapons package too, so whatever best is available there out in the market, which we can buy, we will get it.

And another reason is diversification. There would be a mixture of Chinese and western avionic and weapon suits on the future variants of JF-17.