JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[PakShaheen79]

Well Time frame of by the end of the year may also slip somewhat around Feb. 2010.... But that is pure guess.

 

[Young-khan]

Who Knows, Insha Allah it will maybe happen at the end of the year, however that is no guaranty in current climate.

What do other members here think the arrival of the first squadron will bring to the paf?

Will the the first squadron be more airdefence / intercept in nature?


Will jf-17 or has jf17 been pitted against an f-16 in paf to analyse and evaluate the thunder?

Please feel free to comment to answer some of the above questions.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Members must have noticed that the JF 17 has gone under the radar---no more news coming out--no idea what is happening---I firmly believe that paf has plugged most of the leaks.

We may truly not know about the capabilities of the air craft---most of it would be speculation from now onwards---what it can carry and what it can do---but the good news should come before the years end.

 

[bilal1219]

Well, Sir MURADK or any PAF Personnel would be able to enlighten us about the Status of JF17.

 

[Beskar]

JF-17 Dropping Dumb-bombs.

 

[wild peace]

Well Time frame of by the end of the year may also slip somewhat around Feb. 2010.... But that is pure guess.

Sir arsalanaslam123 and PakShaheen79 their is reports about departmental conflicts on this project(money concerns type)and the project is in mudy waters

 

[wild peace]

Hi,

Members must have noticed that the JF 17 has gone under the radar---no more news coming out--no idea what is happening---I firmly believe that paf has plugged most of the leaks.

We may truly not know about the capabilities of the air craft---most of it would be speculation from now onwards---what it can carry and what it can do---but the good news should come before the years end.

Yes sir their is news that few of atalians are here with their radars but it is not confirm which type and mode(ground or arial base).

 

[Arsalan]

Well, Sir MURADK or any PAF Personnel would be able to enlighten us about the Status of JF17.

well if it realy is a case of JF17 project purposely going under radar as Sir. MastanKhan have suggested i bet even Sir.MuradK or any other of the PAF men is going to leak out anything here .
so, if it is gone for some reason, it really is gone.... and as Sir MastanKhan suggests all the debate about the project from now on may well be based more or speculations.

regards!

 

[MAB]

well im not that concerned about this fighter being late. This is the first time that Pakistan is manufacturing a fighter as the go along the production is bound to speed up

 

[was]

what about MBDA MICA bvr that was offered for thunder??? any news

 

[PakShaheen79]

Sir arsalanaslam123 and PakShaheen79 their is reports about departmental conflicts on this project(money concerns type)and the project is in mudy waters

Uh...Where is that report. We can't afford that kind of stupidity in these tough times.


do u have any link to that report. I am not going to believe that until we debate on it here.

 

[fhassan]

If JF-17 gets the AESA radar - will that not severly reduce its power to weight ratio?

How will that affect its agility?

 

[deathfromabove]

Cockpit

* Advanced 4.5th generation EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrument System) with cockpit displays that are compatible with western systems such as those built by Rockwell Collins and Honeywell.
o The current MIL-STD-1553B data bus can be readily replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber optics data bus upon customer's request.
o Control panel consisting of 3 color screens (20.3 cm×20.3 cm) only
o All information is processed and displayed on them
o The functions of each screen are exchangeable
o Brightness & contrast can be adjusted either automatically or manually
o Displays can also be adjusted to be compatible with night vision goggles.
o Each screen can be re-defined
o The current CRT display can be readily replaced by LCD upon customer's request, and touch screen option is also available (However, neither the Chinese Air Force nor the Pakistani Air Force has shown any interests in the touch screen options, and there is no known successful export either).
o HUD is a state-of-the-art system developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)
o Many images/information can be displayed at the same time
o All HUD and head-down displays are compatible with the standard electro-optical targeting pod that is carried externally.
* HOTAS control
* Intelligent avionics
o Avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated
o Distributed structure
+ Two independent but exchangeable (can backup each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connect all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (that can also backup each other)
+ Each computer controls one data bus

Radar

Initially, Pakistan wanted to use the Italian Grifo-S7 radar. However, the Chinese offer had some key advantages over the Italian one, such as compatibility with Chinese weapon systems.

* Radar has strong ECCM capacity and multiple modes, such as A2A (both BVR & close), air-to-ground, air-to-sea, terrain avoidance, etc. Terrain following mode is not standard, but can be added upon customer's request by either incorporating an external pod such as the Chinese Blue Sky navigational and targeting pods, or alternatively, the direct integration of the radar itself.
* It can simultaneously detect 40+ targets, simultaneously track 10 of 40 detected targets, and simultaneously engage 2 of the 10 tracked targets by guiding 2 semi-active radar homing BVR missiles to attack two separate targets. Alternatively, two missiles can be fired at the same target to insure the kill probability.
* When active radar homing air-to-air missiles are used, the number of targets that can be simultaneously engaged are increased to 4.
* The detection range for a typical air target of RC 3 m² is 125+ km; looking downrange is 45+ km; range for sea target is 250+ km.
* When engaging land targets, the Chinese radar can lock on to individual vehicle like American radars do, instead of only being able to lock on to a large group of vehicles like the Russian Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar onboard MiG-21-93.
* Easy to access LRUs with fully digitized solid state electronics and built-in self test functions.
* Plenty of room for improvement is incorporated in the design so that the current plannar slotted array that can be readily replaced by a passive phased array.
* Reprogrammable digital processor with open architecture design.
* Option to incorporate IFF.
* The internally mounted electro-optics is not standard for JF-17, but the radar is compatible with them for their rapid integration upon customer's request.

Helmet Mounted Sight

Though the exact type of the helmet mounted sights for JF-17 is yet to be determined, the HMS will be standard. JF-17 is compatible with a wide range of HMS, and its HMS will be at least equal or better than the HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PG, which first appeared in 2002 at air show and various defense / electronics exhibitions held in China. The HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PG is already better than the lastest Russian HMS available on the export market in that the Chinese HMS is specifically designed to improve the performance of the Russian system, and it outperforms its Russian counterparts in various fields:

* In comparison to the original standard Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard the MiG-29 and Flanker family, the field of view of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG is +/- 90 degrees, which is far greater than the mere +/- 8 degrees of the Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS.
* In comparison to the latest Russian HMS available with +/- 60 degrees of field of view, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG still enjoys much greater field of view at +/- 90 degrees.
* The elevation of the latest Russian HMS designed to replace the original ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard MiG-29 and Flanker family is only +/- 40 degrees, while in contrast, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG is already +/- 45 degrees.
* The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG already had higher reliability than the Russian HMS.
* The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG are easier and much cheaper to manufacture than its Russian counterparts.

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG has already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG. Improvement included the adoptation of common attachments and power sources so that all night vision goggles and HMS are interchangeable, without the need to replace the entire system. The weight would be further reduced from the 200 grams weight of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG, while the performance is further increased (mainly in the increase of elevation angles). While it can not be confirmed the claims by various sources that the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10 developed from HMS onboard the J-7E/F-7PG would be selected for JF-17, the aircraft is certainly compatible with the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10.

Electronic warfare
It has all the standard electronic warfare systems, such as radar warning receiver, missile approach warning system, etc.

* The computer can store more than 500 existing radar signals for identification, which is around 5 times of that F-7MP/P, and actually already stores more than 250 known radar signal patterns
* 360-degree field of view for the missile approach warning system with both infrared & ultraviolet spectrum detection
o Very sensitive to the "afterburn" of missiles
o The detection range is 60+ km
o One detection sensor is in the tail and two at the front
o Moreover, it can provide a certain capacity of tracking and positioning of approaching missiles

Communication

The JF-17 has two communication radios; one of them has the capacity for data link to exchange data from either a ground control center or an AWACS/AEW.

The modular design of solid state avionics has enabled the data link for the air-to-ground precision guided munitions to be carried internally, thus eliminating the need to carry external data link pods that are common for current Russian and Vietnam War era American systems, but this only applies to the radar or GPS guided air-to-surface missiles, because for television, infrared, or laser guided munitions, the aircraft lacks built-in electro-optics targeting and weapon control systems, so an external electro-optic targeting pod must be carried.

Weaponry

All weapon systems are designed to be compatible with both Western systems (ie. supporting MIL-STD-1760 data bus) and Russian systems (and Chinese systems also).

Air-to-air weaponry

The JF-17 is primarily an export-oriented fighter, thus can be built according a customer's specifications and use a variety of Chinese, Western, South African & Russian munitions. These include air-to-air beyond and visual range missiles.

Chinese Weapons

* PL-9C for within visual range combat
* SD-10 BVRAAM for beyond visual range combat.

Non-Chinese Weapons

* R-Darter BVR-AAM (Proposed at IDEAS 2006, Karachi, Pakistan)
* A-Darter WVR-AAM (Proposed at IDEAS 2006, Karachi, Pakistan)
* IRIS-T WVR-AAM (Proposed at IDEAS 2006, Karachi, Pakistan)
* AIM-9L/M SidewinderWVR-AAM
* AIM-7F Sparrow BVR-AAM

Air-to-ground weaponry

In addition to unguided bombs and rockets, the aircraft is adopted to deploy a wide range of precision guided munitions, including:

Chinese weapons:

* FT (Fei Teng) family of GPS guided bombs
* LT (Lei Ting) family of laser guided bombs
* LS (Lei Shi) family of GPS guided long range gliding bombs
* C-701 Air-to-surface missile
* TL-10 Anti-ship missile for boats with displacement upto 500 tons
* TL-6 Anti-ship missile for boats/ships with displacement upto 1,000 tons
* C-704 Anti-ship missile for ships with displacement upto 3,000 - 4,000 tons
* C-801/802 Anti-ship missile for ships displace greater than 4,000 tons

Non-Chinese weapons:

* DPGM (Precision Guided Bomb)
* Raptor-I precision-guided long-range glide bomb (60km)
* Raptor II precision-guided long-range glide bomb (120km)
* Anti-ship missile such as Exocet and Harpoon missile.

All precision guided munitions listed above are either GPS or radar guided, and when the television or laser guided munitions are deployed, addition electro-optical targeting pods such as the Chinese-built Blue Sky pod must be carried externally in order to provide guidance and targeting information.

General characteristics

* Crew: One
* Length: 14.97 m (ft in)
* Wingspan: 9.46 m (ft in)
* Height: 4.77 m (ft in)
* Wing area: m² (ft&#178
* Empty weight: 6,411 kg (lb)
* Loaded weight: 10,072 kg (lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 15,474 kg ()
* Powerplant: 1× Russian-made RD-93 turbofan (81.3 kN) (Production version to have further improved RD-93B with 10% more thrust. For the long term, TVT or thrust vectoring nozzle to enhance maneuverability will also be an option in the future upon customer's request)

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1.6-1.8 (mph) at high altitude
* Range: 3000 km ()
* Service ceiling: 20,500 m (50,000 ft)
* Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft&#178

Armament

* Gun :One internal GSh-23-2 twin-barrel 23mm cannon
* Missiles:
o Short (PL-9C/AIM-9M/Magic 2).
o Beyond-visual-range missiles (SD-10/Aspide).
* Bombs :
o Laser guided bombs.
o Other guided munitions and targeting pod can also be carried for precision strike missions

Avionics

* Italian FIAR Grifo S-7 on Pakistani-built export versions. The Radar for Pakistan Air Force's JF-17 is not yet decided. However, early PAF JF-17s will most probably be equipped with Chinese radar which PLAAF will also be using.
* Global Positioning System
* Head-up display (HUD), infra-red search-and-track (IRST) system (external), night-vision goggle (NVG) capability and Fly-by-Wire(FBW)

 

[PakShaheen79]

If JF-17 gets the AESA radar - will that not severly reduce its power to weight ratio?

How will that affect its agility?

Well that is relative issue which AESA is selected and how much it weights in comparison to current PD radar.

I personally don't think that will reduce agility but reverse is more probable as many mechanical parts will be taken out.

 

[naseebkhanniazi]

JF-17 Dropping Dumb-bombs.

this is the thing what i want to see this is the best post of jf17s thread