JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[TaimiKhan]

Sir my hidden sense tells me that currently both PAF and PLAAF are working respectively on their stealth version of JF-17 and J-10

Well problem is that the Chinese are already working on their stealth program, so don't know if they will simultaneously work on multiple projects of the same factor.

JF-17 has already some stealthy features, like the air induct is "S" shaped, thus the engine fan blades are not exposed to radar waves, its already very small aircraft, with composites and some other stealth related techniques, the RCS can be reduced to great extend, thus it would not be easy to detect it from long range.

 

[TaimiKhan]

What exactly is the difference between RDY 3 and RC 400? If you check the Thales site, the the specs of both are the same:

RDY-3 - airborne fire control radar - Thales Group

RC 400 - Airborne Fire Control Radar - Thales Group

Could it be that RC 400 is just the export name of RDY 3?

Yes the specifications are same, and from the literature available it seems both are the same radars with the different names, but may be the antenna size would differ based on the nose of the aircraft to get it.

The RDY series is mostly used in the Mirage series upgrade references, giving a view that the radars used in Mirage aircraft are the RDY series. And the RC400 name is used for its installation in aircraft other then Mirage.

Hope someone can put more light onto it.

Can anybody tell me, or give a reliable source of the materials used in JF 17? How much composite materials are used?
I checked the PAC Kamra site, but couldn't find anything about it.

There is no official source confirming the types and percentage of the composite materials being used. They would be in small numbers, that is why they are not quoted, as its not of importance.

In the second batch the real amount of composite material may be revealed as it is being planned to contain good amount of composite material.

But that is confirmed from inside sources that some composite material is being used in the current batch of production.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Well problem is that the Chinese are already working on their stealth program, so don't know if they will simultaneously work on multiple projects of the same factor.

JF-17 has already some stealthy features, like the air induct is "S" shaped, thus the engine fan blades are not exposed to radar waves, its already very small aircraft, with composites and some other stealth related techniques, the RCS can be reduced to great extend, thus it would not be easy to detect it from long range.

so it means that there is really a possibility to see a stealth version of JF-17 in the future

 

[TaimiKhan]

so it means that there is really a possibility to see a stealth version of JF-17 in the future

Am not sure about a stealth version, but yeah a version with many stealth techniques applied, to reduce its RCS to the minimum.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Am not sure about a stealth version, but yeah a version with many stealth techniques applied, to reduce its RCS to the minimum.

nasrun minallahi wal fathun qareeb

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well problem is that the Chinese are already working on their stealth program, so don't know if they will simultaneously work on multiple projects of the same factor.

Sir it has been confirmed by several sources that the Chinese indeed are working on simultaneous 5th Generation Projects, but my take is it has nothing to do with J10 or JF17. Sure they might be working to improve the J10 and JF17 even further, but they are also running 5th Generation Projects seperately. The Chinese like the Americans can work on simultaneous projects at the same time because they have the capital and the necessary knowledge to do so.

 

[M_Saint]

so it means that there is really a possibility to see a stealth version of JF-17 in the future

Possibility can't be rulled out but if the rigouteous nations don't stay ever-vigil then Indians would be out there to sabotage their party. Report is out there that Indians are gonna conduct joint Air-excercise with Chinese at 2012 that means Indians are both in U.S and Sino camps. Also they don't care to have any moral or ethical barriers while pursuing national interest. So, GOP, PAF and the people of PAK need to watch Indian moves and counter them for stealthy JF-17 or J-XX project to be successful inorder to counter PAK-FAs.

 

[Mani2020]

Well problem is that the Chinese are already working on their stealth program, so don't know if they will simultaneously work on multiple projects of the same factor.

.

taimi i dun thnk there is any problem for china to run multiple stealth aircraft projects simultaneously coz they have budget and capital available ...n as a matter of fact they are speeding up their efforts to catch up big guns...

I also heard that China will test fly ~100 prototypes this year ....cant say anythyng about stealthy version of jf-17 its a seprate debate...but yes they can handle multiple projects

 

[MZUBAIR]

Allah aap ko zindagi dae achi sehat kae saaat, inshAllah you will see much more then just F-16s

I heard that Pak will ask more F-16 on 24th March meeting with Obama Administration......Lets see

 

[TOPGUN]

I heard that Pak will ask more F-16 on 24th March meeting with Obama Administration......Lets see

Any source of your claim bahi in all due respect?

 

[TaimiKhan]

taimi i dun thnk there is any problem for china to run multiple stealth aircraft projects simultaneously coz they have budget and capital available ...n as a matter of fact they are speeding up their efforts to catch up big guns...

I also heard that China will test fly ~100 prototypes this year ....cant say anythyng about stealthy version of jf-17 its a seprate debate...but yes they can handle multiple projects

Yes thay can handle multiple projects and since last few years, they have made many new models within a very short time frame.

But problem is for a stealth version of JF-17, you completely need it to redesign the airframe. Where is the place in the current design for internal weapons bay ?? For internal bay, the airframe has to be enlarged and a much powerful engine would be required. And so many other things also to be done.

So what will be the end result, that China will be making stealth aircraft not of one type, rather multiple types. Who has done it ?? Even US with its vast resources, have made one type of stealth at a time, currently also doing the same. Same with Russians. So what is the wisdom in manufacturing 2-3 types of stealth aircraft, whose end mission would be the same.

 

[Kompromat]

Yes thay can handle multiple projects and since last few years, they have made many new models within a very short time frame.

But problem is for a stealth version of JF-17, you completely need it to redesign the airframe. Where is the place in the current design for internal weapons bay ?? For internal bay, the airframe has to be enlarged and a much powerful engine would be required. And so many other things also to be done.

So what will be the end result, that China will be making stealth aircraft not of one type, rather multiple types. Who has done it ?? Even US with its vast resources, have made one type of stealth at a time, currently also doing the same. Same with Russians. So what is the wisdom in manufacturing 2-3 types of stealth aircraft, whose end mission would be the same.

Sir wouldn't be more better if we Try reducing the RCS of The Thunder and keep it upgrading to the Block III until it turns out to be a True 4+/4.5 Generation Platform & in the meanwhile we can invest money in JXX or Parallel Single Engine Stealth Air craft already being Develop by China ?

I say that as we hear about Two projects in development , a twin engine Fighter to compete Raptor and a Single Engine A/C to meet futuristic L/W Multirole , single engine stealth AC Requirements.

By having done that we would have :

Vipers Blk 52 / MLU.
FC-20 / J-10B
A True 4+/4.5 Generation Thunder to close Numerical gap between us and the adversaries.
A Fifth Generation Multirole/Air superiority Fighter.
Hongdu L-15 Twin Engine Jet trainer / Light Attack.

What are your thoughts ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir wouldn't be more better if we Try reducing the RCS of The Thunder and keep it upgrading to the Block III until it turns out to be a True 4+/4.5 Generation Platform & in the meanwhile we can invest money in JXX or Parallel Single Engine Stealth Air craft already being Develop by China ?

I say that as we hear about Two projects in development , a twin engine Fighter to compete Raptor and a Single Engine A/C to meet futuristic L/W Multirole , single engine stealth AC Requirements.

By having done that we would have :

Vipers Blk 52 / MLU.
FC-20 / J-10B
A True 4+/4.5 Generation Thunder to close Numerical gap between us and the adversaries.
A Fifth Generation Multirole/Air superiority Fighter.
Hongdu L-15 Twin Engine Jet trainer / Light Attack.

What are your thoughts ?

Yes, that is the right approach. As per my study so far on the net, the design has been frozen till block II. First 50 are Block I, the second batch of about 100 JF-17s would be block II with the rumored french avionics, as the deal is being negotiated. And After these 150 are inducted, then i believe the new design of JF-17 will come. They may even have started on the design phase, but a prototype would be years away for now.

And yes agreed, we should invest money and human resource if allowed to the max possible in the chinese stealth project.

And as for the mix of fighter aircraft, i would rather not go for L-15, rather efforts should be given to a twin seat JF-17. reason being L-15 is twin engined and yet another operational issue of maintenance of another type of engine, and they won't be that much of a help in a war situation due to their small weapon carrying capability. While a twin seat JF-17 will work as a trainer, single engine, commonality with same engine in nearly 200+ aircraft in the PAF, and can be used as a full fledged fighter in case of a war.

So my ideal mix of aircraft for PAF would be.

F-16s
JF-17s (Twin Seat Version Also for training)
FC-20s
And if given the Chinese Stealth Version, either single engine or a twin one. As we are not gonna buy them in hundreds, 4-5 Sqds would be enough to spear head the PAF, while the others will be there to back them up.

With just 4 types, there will be lot of ease in operational matters.

 

[araz]

likelihood of 14 additional USN/EDA and possibly option of 18 new

63+14= 77 90% probability by 2012.
77+18 =95 60% probability by 2014.

fatman
I have been hearing rumours of 12 additional Bl 52s.DOnt know how reliable but lets see what happens. I suspect we will ask for more EDA f16s in nay case.There was talk in the past of US offering us old Block32/42 in exchangeof our Bl15OCUs . if that is the case we might ask for at least 2 squadrons to justify having separate facility for them.
Araz

 

[araz]

taimi i dun thnk there is any problem for china to run multiple stealth aircraft projects simultaneously coz they have budget and capital available ...n as a matter of fact they are speeding up their efforts to catch up big guns...

I also heard that China will test fly ~100 prototypes this year ....cant say anythyng about stealthy version of jf-17 its a seprate debate...but yes they can handle multiple projects

It is a cost to benefit exercise.The full stealth version will require redesigning and testing and at the end of the day it will only benefit PAF as China will support its own programmes.So you will have to bear the cost. The fighter is a really nice design in its current configuration and will be made better.Some features may be added to make its RCS even lower , but it is never going to be fully stealthy.So for the cost, the benefits will be few. So not worth it.
Regards
Araz