JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[PakShaheen79]

I have 3 questions for which i couldnt get the answer any where.

Does any one have any diagram or pictures marking places where the two poposed additional hard points will be.

Does PAF wanted onboard oxygen genarator and is there any chinese system available for jf17

and third. how much more thrust will make jf17 supercruise..

Well I can only answer 2nd one and that is NO. PAF for now has no such plan the design of fighter has been frozen for current model and upgrades will be from Plane # 51 onwards.

I can also make a GUESS that additional hard points will be on wings not on main fuselage. But again this is just guess i may be wrong.

Rest keep visiting some more educated person will answer your queries as well.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Well I can only answer 2nd one and that is NO. PAF for now has no such plan the design of fighter has been frozen for current model and upgrades will be from Plane # 51 onwards.

I can also make a GUESS that additional hard points will be on wings not on main fuselage. But again this is just guess i may be wrong.

Rest keep visiting some more educated person will answer your queries as well.

The proposed hard points would most probably be under the wings, just like the F-16s have. But they will come in future versions as it may require to enlarge the surface area of the wing to accommodate additional space for hard points, requiring more powerful engine. And possible hard points may be added beneath the air intakes for targeting & navigation pods.

There is a Chinese OBOG System designed for Chinese J-11s, but no report if it can be fitted to JF-17 or not as its size is not yet revieled, JF-17 is a light weight aircraft, while J-11 is a huge monster. But in future it can be developed and installed.

And for JF-17 to super cruise, it would need a very powerful engine compared to the weight. Super cruise is the ability of an aircraft to go above Mach 1 without using the afterburners. So engine & weight of the aircraft matters.

 

[PakShaheen79]

The proposed hard points would most probably be under the wings, just like the F-16s have. But they will come in future versions as it may require to enlarge the surface area of the wing to accommodate additional space for hard points, requiring more powerful engine. And possible hard points may be added beneath the air intakes for targeting & navigation pods.

There is a Chinese OBOG System designed for Chinese J-11s, but no report if it can be fitted to JF-17 or not as its size is not yet revieled, JF-17 is a light weight aircraft, while J-11 is a huge monster. But in future it can be developed and installed.

And for JF-17 to super cruise, it would need a very powerful engine compared to the weight. Super cruise is the ability of an aircraft to go above Mach 1 without using the afterburners. So engine & weight of the aircraft matters.

So we both agree on most of the points.

 

[Arsalan]

there are chance that the next blk may make it to production line with just one hardpoint added because of time sacle, as at the moment PAF is keen to get them at a rapid pace. in this case, it will be on the main fuselage and will be using targeting pod. we will not see any added hardpoint under wings, not for blk II atleast as it will require some good time because of the need of some changes in wing design!!
for future blks, blkIII and onward, though nothing can be said at the moment but i agree that added hardpoints will be stationed under wings,,

regards!

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

for OBOG, JF17 do not have one and there is even no plane to get one for blk II. it may come after blk II if required!!

regards!

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

for OBOG, JF17 do not have one and there is even no plane to get one for blk II. it may come after blk II if required!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

for OBOG, JF17 do not have one and there is even no plane to get one for blk II. it may come after blk II if required!!

regards!

 

[kiuppal]

Today when i was playing HAWX on my pc a question came into my mind, where are the air brakes of thunder ?

 

[Sapper]

I think they work like F-16 .. split brakes at base of each elevator

Regards,
Sapper

 

[hj786]

Trying to compare the newer JF-17s with the new LCA, k7x?

Does any one have any diagram or pictures marking places where the two poposed additional hard points will be.

No. Some time ago an ex-PAF officer at another website indicated they may be under the air intakes. They aren't proposed, according to an interview with then Chief of the Air Staff ACM Mahmood in January 2008, they were being worked on. No other details as far as I'm aware, although Chinese posters have translated articles detailing further planned modifications.

Does PAF wanted onboard oxygen genarator and is there any chinese system available for jf17

The PAF's Mirage III ROSE fighters were retrofitted with "single point pressure refuelling systems" (said to have reduced refuelling time from 15 to 3 minutes) and OBOGS, among other new equipment, and they are now being/have been retrofitted for aerial refuelling.

The JF-17 comes from the factory with the single point pressure refuelling system but we don't know about the OBOGS. According to the PAC website JF-17 gives a 3 hour oxygen supply to the pilot, so I'm assuming no OBOGS, but the website is very out-dated and this may no longer be the case. The first 8 pre-production fighters aren't aerial refuelling capable, but serial production aircraft will be and the pre-production fighters may be retrofitted later as per statements by PAF officials. Looking at the example of the Mirage III OBOGS/aerial refuelling upgrade, it isn't an issue.

and third. how much more thrust will make jf17 supercruise..

We don't know, ask CAC or PAC. The JAS-39 Gripen can supercruise and it has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.98, the JF-17 has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.99. If JF-17's airframe has the same or less drag than the Gripen, it should be able to supercruise.

According to ex-PAF officials on this forum, the production of one squadron of JF-17s has been (or is very nearly) completed - i.e., app.15-20 aircraft - and is currently undergoing operational integration. This squadron is to be based in Peshawar, most likely replacing the A-5 Fantans of No. 16 or No. 26 strike squadrons of No. 36 Tactical Attack Wing.

Doesn't the same ex-PAF poster also state that A-5C Fantans will not be retired for some time yet due to their excellent flight safety record when compared to the F-7P and Mirage 3/5?

PAF for now has no such plan the design of fighter has been frozen for current model and upgrades will be from Plane # 51 onwards.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Super cruise is the ability of an aircraft to go above Mach 1 without using the afterburners. So engine & weight of the aircraft matters.

I'm pretty sure at those speeds only thrust and drag matter, not weight.

 

[sancho]

The JAS-39 Gripen can supercruise and it has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.98, the JF-17 has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.99. If JF-17's airframe has the same or less drag than the Gripen, it should be able to supercruise.

Small correction, the Gripen with GE 404 engine can't supercruise! It was the Gripen NG demonstrator with the new GE 414 engine, that proves supercruise capabilities.

Gripen - The wings of your nation - Gripen Supercruises

All aircrafts that proves supercruise yet (Gripen NG, EF, F22 and rumors also says Rafale and Su 35) have a t/w ratio above 1.

 

[k7x]

Trying to compare the newer JF-17s with the new LCA, k7x?
I'm pretty sure at those speeds only thrust and drag matter, not weight.

Was looking at the picture of JF17 and i was wondering where it could be as i see only 1 possiblity that to for a hard point for pods .. (near the intlet ,only one as there is gun on other side).

thats why i got that question..

second one. on obog since JF17 is your main stay aircraft then .. just wanted to know about endurance .. thanks i got the answer.. since IFR is there endurance depends on it very much..

superCruse.. just wanted to know what is the crusing speed. it also determines how much fuel will be used ...

 

[hj786]

Small correction, the Gripen with GE 404 engine can't supercruise!

According to test pilot Magnus Olssen yes it can, "but only on a cold day in Sweden." Source:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aw/dti0608/index.php?startid=34
Defense Technology International issue June 2008. Skip to page 36 to find the quote.

Something I found while looking for the above link:



I think the JF-17's two new hardpoints will be in the same place as Gripen NG, under the air intakes. Note that Saab decided not to add more stations under the Gripen's wings for Gripen NG, even though Gripen has delta wings which are inherently stronger than the cropped-delta wing design adopted for the JF-17.

 

[Arsalan]

I think all the prototypes will be also upgraded to operational level but will never enter squadron life and will be there with CAC and PAC as test beds. These machines will go under extensive refit of different radars, antenna, Weapons control systems, etc. etc.

As far as current number of Thunders are concerned mark my word they are not more than 10. I am talking about Thunders who are flying and on which PAF is currently doing weapon testing no ones in PAC or CAC being built. PAC will role 6-8 more by end of year to form first squadron at Peshawar Base.

they do not really need to be upgraded, however you can say that every upgrade will come to production from them as it will be first evaluated on these platforms!!
we really do not know how many planes are planned to be inducted in a squadron 9i guess it will be 18) so nothing can be said that how many will role out of PAC by end of this year. all we know is that the first squadron will be operational by end of this year,,,Inshallah!

regards!

 

[kiuppal]

I think they work like F-16 .. split brakes at base of each elevator

Regards,
Sapper

I don't think so

any other answer ?

 

[PakShaheen79]

they do not really need to be upgraded, however you can say that every upgrade will come to production from them as it will be first evaluated on these platforms!!
we really do not know how many planes are planned to be inducted in a squadron 9i guess it will be 18) so nothing can be said that how many will role out of PAC by end of this year. all we know is that the first squadron will be operational by end of this year,,,Inshallah!

regards!

Well, to test a sub system like fire control radar, your test bed must be able to perform equal to operational fighter in order to test that system to its limit. Performance of test bed and operational fighters are normally remain same other than the system which is going to be tested on test bed. Whereas prototype is something else, prototype comes handy in testing whole plane and air frame. Further more no prototype is pushed to its limits whereas same can be done on test beds as they are fully functional non-operational jets in a way.

I am not going to repeat my view about number of current Thunders so let's wait and see

 

[Arsalan]

Well, to test a sub system like fire control radar, your test bed must be able to perform equal to operational fighter in order to test that system to its limit. Performance of test bed and operational fighters are normally remain same other than the system which is going to be tested on test bed. Whereas prototype is something else, prototype comes handy in testing whole plane and air frame. Further more no prototype is pushed to its limits whereas same can be done on test beds as they are fully functional non-operational jets in a way.

but this do not mean that a fighter will have to be brought to operationa status, do some research on prototype issues and it will help!

I am not going to repeat my view about number of current Thunders so let's wait and see

that will be fine as we have been repeating the sme thing again n again, better take rest untill get some real news on it!!

regards!