JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Sanchez]

here are some of the problems that Ws-10 engine have/had

According to an interview publicised in January 2007 with J-10 pilot Li Cunbao (李存&#23453, the J-10 had not yet been equipped with the domestic WS-10 engine because although the WS-10 could match the performance of its Russian counterpart (the AL-31), there was a serious drawback; the WS-10 took longer to "spool up", i.e. there was a delay in reaching the same thrust output as the Russian engine. Another significant drawback of the WS-10 was the lack of a FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) system, although this has since been addressed.

The problem is fixed. FADEC is yet to be matured.

 

[araz]

Well with a Chinese WS-10 series engine, we can have a larger variant of JF-17 design, as the design is perfect and can be modified into a larger airframe.

FC-20 canard-delta design and the JF-17 design, combination of both would be good.

taimi
WS1o is too large for JF17.It wont fit and the alterations rewquired would need a lot of money.i think We should concentrate on WS13/15 as the next engine and modify the plane accordingly. This would be a more cost effective solution than reinventing JF17. Also with J10/FC20 available and round the corner, why do you want a home grown competitor?
Araz

 

[Dazzler]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend who is a Flt Lieutenant regarding the jf-17...

1. Even the first lot of 42 aircraft will have a decent amount of carbon composites

2. It is compatible with J-10's dual racks and can be fitted if required

3. Dual racks can be used for Air-Air and Air-ground munition

4. Wingtip hardpoint can carry a medium range BVR missile

5. No plans for CFT for thunders so far

6. Undisclosed AESA radar from both China and West is under evaluation

7. Not all thunders will be equipped with AESA

8. The Chinese radar has very good performance in all parameters and is a robust sensor

9. SD-10A is a serious contender along with a western one

10. Weapon trials are almost over and IFR will be applied from the first squadron onwards

11. Precision guidance is achieved with the help of Atlis and Chinese pods in both day and night strikes

12. The PAF pilots are volunteering more and more to switch to thunder rather than any other aircraft in inventory

 

[Kompromat]

I have heard about Salex Galileo Vixen 1000E AESA for Thunder & it is the Same Radar which would be used on JAS-39 Gripen NG.

Regards:

 

[MastanKhan]

12. The PAF pilots are volunteering more and more to switch to thunder rather than any other aircraft in inventory

Hi,

That should be of no surprise---JF 17 is basically the most advanced plane in the PAF's inventory technically---so it must not come as any surprise to readers that the piltos want to be attached to this plane.

 

[TaimiKhan]

taimi
WS1o is too large for JF17.It wont fit and the alterations rewquired would need a lot of money.i think We should concentrate on WS13/15 as the next engine and modify the plane accordingly. This would be a more cost effective solution than reinventing JF17. Also with J10/FC20 available and round the corner, why do you want a home grown competitor?
Araz

I agree with your point Sir, but am talking talking about in the long term, not in the short one. Once we achieve the 150 or 250 target, then to see if some redesigning can be done.

As my understanding is that the design features of both the aircraft are different, thus the flying characteristics would also be different, as we have used delta wing aircraft as well as the F-16 styled wing aircraft through the past decades.

Even the future seems something like the past, one canard-delta winged fighter, the others are the F-16s and JF-17s with nearly identical winged designed aircrafts, thus giving an idea that PAF likes to have both these styled aircraft in its inventory. So why not an F-16 equivalent or superior JF-17 version in future. But off course atleast a decade or so away.

Hope, some other senior member would highlight or you yourself would highlight the plus and negatives of the delta winged and the F-16/JF-17 winged aircraft to get a better picture.

 

[Mani2020]

I have heard about Salex Galileo Vixen 1000E AESA for Thunder & it is the Same Radar which would be used on JAS-39 Gripen NG.

Regards:

Some of the radar options for JF-17 are the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S7 [73] and the French Thomson-CSF RC400 (a variant of the RDY-2), along with the MBDA MICA IR/RF short/medium range air-to-air missiles.[71] The Vixen 500E AESA radar has also been offered to the PAF for installation on the JF-17 by the British company SELEX, but the PAF may be looking for a more advanced AESA radar

 

[Mani2020]

here is the jf-17 current configuration

 

[araz]

I agree with your point Sir, but am talking talking about in the long term, not in the short one. Once we achieve the 150 or 250 target, then to see if some redesigning can be done.

As my understanding is that the design features of both the aircraft are different, thus the flying characteristics would also be different, as we have used delta wing aircraft as well as the F-16 styled wing aircraft through the past decades.

Even the future seems something like the past, one canard-delta winged fighter, the others are the F-16s and JF-17s with nearly identical winged designed aircrafts, thus giving an idea that PAF likes to have both these styled aircraft in its inventory. So why not an F-16 equivalent or superior JF-17 version in future. But off course atleast a decade or so away.

Hope, some other senior member would highlight or you yourself would highlight the plus and negatives of the delta winged and the F-16/JF-17 winged aircraft to get a better picture.

Taimi
What i know is that the chinese are using J10 as the lower end of their lo- hi profile. This to me, means that the chinese are evolving their j10s towards characteristics in keeping with that. Now this may be the same for F16/F15 combination . i think there are limitations to what one cna achieve with JF17 design. It may be better to hop on to the JXX once it becomes available. PAF will eventually have to get a fighter al J11 or another twin engined one for hi end fighter.
JFdesign will evolve and will involve features in keeping with late 4th gen fighter but that will be about it and also it will depend on howe much finance we have available.
I hope it helps.
Araz

 

[Mani2020]

Taimi
PAF will eventually have to get a fighter al J11 or another twin engined one for hi end fighter.

According to Paf mordenization program the government has refrain Paf from buying any twin engine fighter b4 2019 so i dun thnk there will b any twin engine fighter coming in near future

 

[Ababeel]

What is the tracking range of Salex Galileo Vixen 1000E AESA as well as RC 400.

 

[Mani2020]

What is the tracking range of Salex Galileo Vixen 1000E AESA as well as RC 400.

Grifo-S radar
TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Weight < 120kg
Cooling air cooled
Dissipation <2.9 kW
Average Transmitted Power 560W
Frequency X-band
Scan Coverage &#177; 60&#176; both in Azimuth and Elevation
Scan Rate - Slew Rate up to 100&#176;/s - 400&#176;/s
MTBF >220 hrs

Modes Available

Modes Available
Air&#8211;to-air Single target track
Dual target track
Track while scan
Range while search (normal)
Radar while search (adaptive)
Velocity search
Spot
Situation awareness mode
Air combat Slewable scan
Vertical acquisition
HUD acquisition
Boresight acquisition
Air-to-surface Real beam ground map
Doppler beam sharpening
Spotlight Synthetic Aperture Radar
Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar
Ground moving target indicator
Sea surface search 1
Sea surface search 2
Fixed target track
Ground moving target track
Sea single target track
Sea moving target track
Air-to-ground ranging
Navigation support Beacon interrogation
Weather avoidance
Terrain avoidance
ECCM capabilities Low antenna sidelobes
Guard channel fully processed
Monopulse antenna
Low peak power; pulse compression
Random and adaptive frequency agility
DOJ
HOJ
AOJ
Provisions against:
Range gate/ velocity gate stealers
Noise jammers
CW jammers

Key Parameters
Track while scan 10 targets tracked, 8 displayed
SAR resolution < 1m
Track formation range > 40 NM
look-up detection range > 50 NM

The high degree of modularity, with configurable LRUs,
allows for installation on various platforms, such as JF-17,
F-16, Mirage V, Mirage 2000, MiG 23, MiG 25 and MiG 29.

 

[mughaljee]

here is the jf-17 current configuration

where is

 

[Mani2020]

Vixen-500E AESA radar

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Frequency
X band
Scan Coverage
> ± 60°
Scan Velocity
Instant beam switching
MTBcF
> 1000hrs
Modes Available
Air-to-Air Modes Track while scan Single target track
Air Combat Modes HUD search
Vertical scan
Slewable scan
Boresight
Air-to-Surface modes Real beam ground map
Sea Surface Search and Track
Synthetic Aperture Radar mapping
(standard and high resolution)
Ground Moving Target Indicator
Beacon interrogation
Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar Imaging Freeze
Mode
Interleaved Modes A number of situational awareness modes
Key Parameters
Track While Scan > 10 Targets
SAR Resolution < 3 m
Track Formation Range (look down) > 25 nm
Track Formation Range (look up) > 35 nm

Key Features
• Low cost ownership
• Superior performance
• Superior reliability
• Software driven
• Easy to install
• Easy to use
• Mode interleaving
• No waveguides
• Electronic Beam Steering
• Beyond visual range weapons compatibility.

 

[Mani2020]

RC-400 radar

RC 400 KEY FEATURES

• Modular design
• Light weight: <120 kg
• Low power consumption: 3.5 kVA
• Different antenna sizes available
• High average transmitted power: 400 W
• Up-to-date signal processing technologies
• COTS components for obsolescence protection
• 1553 Bus
• Advanced ECCM features
• Very Low False Alarm Rate
• Flexibility and growth potential
• Efficient BITE and maintenance concept for reduced manpower and life cycle cost
OPERATIONAL BENEFITS

Air-to-air function
• Very long range, all aspect, look-up / look-down detection
• Automatic waveform management and antenna scanning
• Multi-target automatic lock-on and TWS
• Simultaneous multi-target fire control
• Single Target Track
• Combat modes
• IFF interrogator capability

Air-to-ground function
RC 400 provides all the modes required for day and night, all weather operations:
• High Resolution Mapping spotlight SAR (picture)
• Terrain Avoidance (Contour Mapping for Blind Penetration)
• Moving Target Indication and Tracking
• Air-to-Ground Ranging
• Freeze / Silence

Air-to-sea function
RC 400 provides all the modes required for BVR attack of surface ships:
• Long-range detection
• Multi-target TWS
• Target RCS assessment
• STT
• ISAR (option)

Others
• Easy Air-to-Surface modes transitions

.