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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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Lets identify all the weapons here. I have started and please correct if I have got it wrong.

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What are the small "things" next to the ASM and the two larger ones next to the Durandals?

Cluster bombs next to durundals and precision pods next to AshMs. Also note two SD-10s placed under inner pylon clearly indicating a MER or multiple ejecter rack !
 
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I had discussion with "buddies" about the future potential of jft especially from second block onwards. We analyzed what it will have to face in a competitive market and it all came down to just one conclusion. JFT will give a tough time to JAS 39 Gripen particularly its C and D models and PAF is all set to make it even more competitive in second block to reduce capability margin between JFT blk 2 and Gripen NG. Third block will be one remarkable machine in our hands for sure !

I hope the best from Allah(SBWT) to help make JFT an excellent fighter second to none.:)
:pakistan::pdf:
 
Are nahi mere bhai.. Grippen NG is not competing F-16-Block60 neither it is par with Mig-35, F18, EF2000. Jets in Orange are medium to heavy-weight fighters and Grippen NG is still the light-weight aircraft. But Nabil has mentioned Block-II of JF-17 will be comparable to Grippen NG Inshallah.

I agree with you but then why is this aircraft in MRCA competetion.. their has to be some reason. if every aircraft is better and heavy then no point for this aircraft to be in competetion...Indians hve given specification and only those aircraft can compete who fill those specification and grippen NG cannot then why is it in competetion...thats why i asked if block 2 of JF17 is equal or near to grippen then it should be equal to all others in competetion...
 
hahaha....

You give me one reason why shouldn't they call it inferior? They are disgusted that JFT is going to be a player in the league of Mir 2000 series and will give a tuff time in years to come. PAF is much happy with Chinese avionics and prefer them over hyped french ones as mentioned in the interview of project manager in FIA. This is their frustration nothing more.

Mirage 2000 series?...JF 17 cannot compete with the French Mirage 2000 series ever..end of story

You wanna know the reason why? Mirage 2000 production lines have been closed far back in 2005.

And if the French avionics were so over-rated what made PAF opt for it?
 
Read the project manager interview boy it will open your eyes. JFT will be superior to Mir 2000H whether you like it or not infact it is already superior than your Mirage 2000Hs until they are upgraded. Present your proof before jumping further as many members have provided more than ample proof of JFT's capability. Till then, just Chill :)
 
Here is you Mirage 2000 specs......

Cockpit

The fighter is available as a single-seat or two-seat multi-role fighter. The aircraft has hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) control. The pilot sits on a SEMB Mark 10 zero-zero ejection seat, a license-built version of the British Martin-Baker Mark 10. Contrary to the F-16, the pilot sits in a conventional position, without the heavy slope that the F-16 seat has. The cockpit is quite small, and there is no bubble canopy. Despite this, the cockpit visibility is quite good, but less than the F-16, especially at 'six O' clock' (rear) position.

The instrument panel(in Mirage 2000 C) is dominated by a Heads Up Display (HUD) with the VMC 180 radar screen located centrally below it. To the lower left is a stores management panel. Above the stores management panel are the navigation instruments and altimeter. The right half of the instrument panel houses the engine and systems displays. Located on the left side of the cockpit, just ahead of the throttle, are controls for the communications equipment, including the Have Quick secure radio.

Avionics

Standard avionics for the Mirage-2000B/C include:

Sagem ULISS 52 inertial navigation system (INS), TRT radio altimeter.

Sextant TMV-980 data display system (VE-130 head-up and VMC-180 head-down) (two head-down in 2000N/D). The combined head-up/head-level display is collimated at infinity, and presents data relating to flight control, navigation, target engagement and weapon firing. Sensor and system management data is presented on two colored lateral displays.

Dassault Electronique Type 2084 central digital computer, Digibus digital databus (2084 XR in 2000D) and Sextant Avionique Type 90 air data computer.

LMT NRAI-7A IFF transponder, IO-300-A marker beacon receiver, TRT ERA 7000 V/UHF com transceiver, TRT ERA 7200 UHF or EAS secure voice communications.

Radar

Thomson-CSF RDM multi-mode radar or Dassault Electronique/Thomson-CSF RDI pulse-Doppler radar for the Mirage 2000C/D, each with an operating range of 54 nm (100 km / 62 miles). This unit was an evolution of Cyrano radars, with more modern processing units and look-down/shoot-down capabilities. The effective range is around 60-70 km with modest capabilities against low-level targets. It is linked with Super R.530F missiles, and equipped the first 37 aircraft delivered to the French Air Force (Armeé de l'Air) and most exported Mirages. It has multirole capabilities that enable its use in air-to-surface tasks, including anti-ship roles. The very early RDM were still not linked with the Super R.530F missiles, but it was solved quickly.

RDI interception radar. A specialized radar for air-to-air tasks delivered mainly with the Mirage 2000C for the Armée de l'Air. It has a much improved range of about 150 km, and is linked to Super R.530D missiles; much improved compared to the "F". Look-down/shoot-down capabilities are much improved as well, but this radar is not usually used for air-to-surface roles.

Dassault/Thales Antelope 5 Radar with terrain avoidance capability for Mirage 2000N Nuclear Strike variant.

The Thales multimode RDY (Radar Doppler Multitarget) developed for the Mirage 2000-5. Third generation radar, with multiple target capabilities (comparable to the AWG-9) and MICA missiles. This radar equipped many of the most recently exported M.2000s, as-well as the first Mirage 2000RDM updated to 2000-5 standard.

Countermeasures

Thales Serval Radar warning receiver (RWR) with antennas on the wingtips and on the rear of the top of the tailfin.

Dassault Sabre RF jammer in a pod below the bottom of the tailfin, with an antenna in a fairing on the front of the tailfin.

Dassault Eclair dispenser system under the tail. This was eventually replaced by a pair of Matra Spirale dispensers, one fitted on an extension behind the rear of each wingroot, giving a total capacity of 224 cartridges.

MIRAGE 2000

JFT blk 1 specs.....



The avionics suite will make the JF-17 as an effective weapon platform. The glass cockpit and hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls will reduce pilot workload. Accurate navigation and weapon aiming information on the head up display will help the pilot achieve his mission effectively. The multifunction displays will provide information on engine, fuel, hydraulics, electrical, flight control and environmental control system on a need-to-know basis along with basic flight and tactical information. The capability would be built around highly modern state-of-the-art avionics equipment, which is as follows:

* Dual redundant two mission computers
* Dual redundant 1553 Mux bus architecture
* Multimode Pulse Doppler Radar with high power air-cooled transmitter and capable of tracking multiple targets with prioritized firing
* Ring laser gyro inertial navigation system tied with GPS
* Smart head up display with up front control panel. HUD minimum total Field of View is 25 degrees
* Color video recording camera and video recorder (for SMFCDs)
* Data Transfer Unit with digital map function
* HOTAS
* Three smart multi function color displays
* Air Data Computer
* R/Altimeter
* IFF Interrogator/Transponder
* ACMI
* Standard Armament Interface Unit
* Remote Interface Box
* BVR Datalink
* V / UHF Communication System (Qty 02)
* Comm Datalink
* All associated antennas
* Warnings Computer
* ILS
* TACAN
* RWR
* MAWS
* CFD
* Other essential equipment like
o Day/ night laser designator pod
o Self Protection Jammer
o IRST
o FLIR
o NVGs
o Helmet Mounted Sight/Display

Weapons Capability

1. The aircraft would be fitted with modern Stores Management System incorporating accurate weapons delivery modes and solutions involving minimum pilot work load
2.
The system would be based on Mil-Std-1760 architecture for all stations including the wingtip stations
3. The aircraft would be capable of carrying some of the most modern as well as conventional weapons, including:

1.
70-100 Km range beyond visual range active missiles
2.
Highly agile Imaging infra red short range missiles
3.
Air to sea missiles
4.
Anti radiation missiles
5.
Laser guided weapons
6.
Programmable delays cluster bombs
7.
Runway penetration bombs
8.
General purpose bombs
9.
Training bombs
10.
23 mm double barrel gun


Open your eyes boy...

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....
 
Read the project manager interview boy it will open your eyes. JFT will be superior to Mir 2000H whether you like it or not infact it is already superior than your Mirage 2000Hs until they are upgraded. Present your proof before jumping further as many members have provided more than ample proof of JFT's capability. Till then, just Chill :)

Hey you can cut the crap by calling JFT is superior to the Mirage 200H/HT. Lets see where this competition leads us...The time JFT reaches its series production levels the Mirages all over the world will be upgraded or phased out. Right now there are around 18 JFTs which are operational compared to the combat proven Mirage 2000 which are more than 800 operating in different airforces.

And you want proof for an aircraft that has been operational for more than 2 decades? WHy dont you google it? Lets see if I can find a few. Like these

Mirage 2000 Multirole Combat Fighter - Air Force Technology

And if you want to compare an aircraft that is 3 decades old with an aircraft that is yet to evolve it's tactics then you are delusional.
 
Mirage 2000 series?...JF 17 cannot compete with the French Mirage 2000 series ever..end of story

You wanna know the reason why? Mirage 2000 production lines have been closed far back in 2005.

And if the French avionics were so over-rated what made PAF opt for it?



I think you are way off the mark here dude.

It is no longer a question of if JF-17 has proven itself.

PAF wanted Mirage 2000 as replacement for lost F-16s in 1990s. Then they joined the JF-17 program. Do you think they would wait ten years to join an inferior program?

Let me put it other way, are you really that stupid?

Grow up kid. Go to school and do your work, because what you think or not think will not change the fact that PAF knows way more than anyone in your country can even think of, about it's planes.
 
I think you are way off the mark here dude.

It is no longer a question of if JF-17 has proven itself.

PAF wanted Mirage 2000 as replacement for lost F-16s in 1990s. Then they joined the JF-17 program. Do you think they would wait ten years to join an inferior program?

Let me put it other way, are you really that stupid?

Grow up kid. Go to school and do your work, because what you think or not think will not change the fact that PAF knows way more than anyone in your country can even think of, about it's planes.

I know exactly what I am talking about . The JFT is yet to derive tactics and Mirage 2000 is right up there. Lost F 16?..like the ones u lost after the Bill passed by the US? The mirage 2000-9 is far advanced than the JF 17 is right now. Mirage 2000 is inferior? You must be dreaming. It is on par with the F 16 and the J 10 which are your "high-end" fighters. And I was talking about sales competition, the world knows that by the time JFT reaches the levels of maturity that Mirage has right now...the Mirage series would have been phased out.
 
I know exactly what I am talking about . The JFT is yet to derive tactics and Mirage 2000 is right up there. Lost F 16?..like the ones u lost after the Bill passed by the US? The mirage 2000-9 is far advanced than the JF 17 is right now. Mirage 2000 is inferior? You must be dreaming. It is on par with the F 16 and the J 10 which are your "high-end" fighters. And I was talking about sales competition, the world knows that by the time JFT reaches the levels of maturity that Mirage has right now...the Mirage series would have been phased out.

You really are a kid, kiddoo. No point in arguing with you as you do not even know how to make an argument... Live happy in your Mirage fantasy... By the way, i only compared Mirage early variants i.e. non 2000-5, mk2, 2000-9 variants and you brought them in the picture. Fantastic !

Cheers !
 
I think you are way off the mark here dude.

It is no longer a question of if JF-17 has proven itself.

PAF wanted Mirage 2000 as replacement for lost F-16s in 1990s. Then they joined the JF-17 program. Do you think they would wait ten years to join an inferior program?

Let me put it other way, are you really that stupid?.
Well buddy just think of what you mentioned here. JF-17 has proven itself, would u care to explain where it proved and against which Air Force??

Secondly PAF wanted M-2000 as replacement for Lost F-16 and then they joined superior JF-17 Program, right ?? So indirectly you are saying JF-17 > M-2000 > F-16 (Earlier Blocks) ??
Will you care to explain in which respect JF-17 is better than M-2000 or Earlier Block of F-16 ??
Its still looking for a powerful engine, its still looking for better avoinics, its BVR capability is still not clear and everyone know here why JF-17 was inducted in PAF as a low cost replacement for old fighters not to be in leauge of Mirage-2000 and its later variant or F-16 kind of platform. F-16 or FC-20 will be front line AC while it will be acting in second line of defence and mostly point defence fighter, next block might have more responsibilities, but that will be known after few years.
What will happen for Block-2 or 3 no one knows exactly. JF-17 has to prove in next few years, on other hand M-2000 and later variant are proven ACs.


Grow up kid. Go to school and do your work, because what you think or not think will not change the fact that PAF knows way more than anyone in your country can even think of, about it's planes.
Same goes for you also buddy.
 
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hahaha....

You give me one reason why shouldn't they call it inferior? They are disgusted that JFT is going to be a player in the league of Mir 2000 series and will give a tuff time in years to come. PAF is much happy with Chinese avionics and prefer them over hyped french ones as mentioned in the interview of project manager in FIA. This is their frustration nothing more.

What interview? I went a few pages back but could not find it. Much appreciate a repost for my benefit.

Merci.

You should not take the assessment of a TV journalist too seriously most are not qualified to render a professional critique.
 
You really are a kid, kiddoo. No point in arguing with you as you do not even know how to make an argument... Live happy in your Mirage fantasy... By the way, i only compared Mirage early variants i.e. non 2000-5, mk2, 2000-9 variants and you brought them in the picture. Fantastic !

Cheers !

You are comparing an aircraft that dosent have a tactics with an aircraft in use for 3 decades...you are the kid...drink out of ur bottle and head to bed..You need serious counselling there. You are arguing about the M2K C series which has been upgraded to the -9 series. And the French have closed the production lines of the whole Mirage series. You generalized it in the start, then you bring in IAF M2K which are going to be upgraded, and now you are telling me. Contradictory statements.
 
What interview? I went a few pages back but could not find it. Much appreciate a repost for my benefit.

Merci.

You should not take the assessment of a TV journalist too seriously most are not qualified to render a professional critique.

This is by Mr. A Arshad who visited the show himself and is NOT a journalist rather an informed member of pakdef forum.....

"Some points from my side, talked to the pilot and two engineers:

Avionics are quite advanced, they invested a lot on the man-machine interface and the phsycology of how the pilot interprets his data. The aerospace engineers will know that this is a major field in aeronautical engineering itself and a lot of attention is also given to this in the western universities/companies.

I myself also asked them specifically about the data linkage to the Erieye and to the future Chinese "AWACS". And the pilot (whom i asked) confirmed that both the Erieye and the chines plane will be linked to the JF-17 (regarding data). I asked him two times to make sure he was understanding that i meant the data and not radio !!!

Also asked him about SD-10/BVR....Current JF-17s are fully BVR and SD-10A capable, although the SD-10A has not been fully 'integrated/tested'. Apparently there is a distinction in what they (PAF) sees as 'capable' and what as 'integrated'. Integration being the formal accepted delivery, with all tests being concluded. Shortly, there will be a test firing of the SD-10A from the Pakistani JF-17s. He was quite hesitant to provide to much info (citing classified). He said there was still little tweaking going on but the radar/avionics are already capable to support the SD-10A!

He also told about how the anti-bvr strategy mind-set of the PAF was making place for a more offensive one (with the JF-17). The JF-17 allows them to opperate it in a offensive doctrine (his words)

The integration/software adjustment/tweaking took and takes place in Pakistan. One of the biggest advantageous is that they are fully in charge of tweaking the plane as they like. This is the main advantage of the JF-17 over all other equipment. They can tailor it to their operational needs.

He could not give more information on the future improvements to reduce RCS, but one of the reasons to go for the DSI was to reduce the engine's RCS even further.

PS: was allowed to touch the JF-17 and walk around it, which i did ! mannnn what a feeling, after all these years of following the plane ! . Still have a hangover from the long trip, ill post more info when/if I remember "
 
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