JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Dazzler]

The smoke problem was resolved but at certain angles especially at low speed, it gives smoke. This is the case with most fighters even American ones. Nothing unusual.

 

[Donatello]

Hi

Now how does it happen in terminal phase where Missile dosent need data from Jet , instead is able to track the target by its own radar .

How does Missile's own seeker prioritize a single target out of many ,
You don't have command guidance or Weapon controller for terminal phase to keep the lock or achieve lock on desired target only .

See, the missile launches with the target locked on. There are missiles which can be launched as homing and then be sent the signal from the plane while it is on the way, but mostly the IR missiles are locked on and then launched. Infact once the IR launched on a spot or IR source it doesn't leave the spot until it's fuel runs out or it explodes. Thats why flares are not very useful these days because the IR is programmed not to accept any confusing signal from any other source, where that is flare or another aircraft's engine.
Good thing that it doesn't lose target, bad thing, because if launched on a friendly aircraft, it won't stop until target is hit.

It means, sorting one enemy out of many has already been done by the plane's computer (Fire control radar, etc). The missile simply goes on the coordinates that were provided.

Even if there is a tight formation, the coordinates have to differ as it is 3d. The planes can either be side by side (Left or right as the chasing plane/missile sees them) or stacked up and down. In either cases the coordinates differ by a few meters enough for a powerful radar (Like APG 68 or ZHUK of MIG 29) to sort them out.


And the AIM 120 AMRAAM has an active radar of its own. So even in the chase/terminal phase, it can lock on the target. It can also locate the target by the jamming signals/radio signals that the target is transmitting. So it can check and confirm using 2 different sources to ensure that it is on the right track.

 

[BATMAN]

A little more detail would be great help -

You are talking of Locking by Jet's sensor , while I am asking how Missile's own radar gets lock on target .

Fighter radar can guide upto Mid-Phase ,terminal phase lock has to be achieved by Missile's seeker only

My specific query is How does Missile's seeker prioritize one target out of many - is it cued by TWS data , or it matches PRF sequence / pulse wave of target .

And how does
" Tracking by Jet shifts to Tracking by missile "

First lock is made by the a/c radar and later what happens depends on type of missile. It could be the a/c radar which will home the missile until impact or guide it close enough...like 1-2 km. than it all depends on what is inside the missile.
It can be combination of many sensors, incl. IR.
In any case target lock is always on.... until the missile tech is very basic and the opponent is F-35.

 

[Dazzler]

Notice Rafale engine smoke at low speeds....

 

[abaseen99]

tichnically and poltically its issue in my opinion

 

[KEETARP]

Ok , you get the wrong side
Pneumbra , I have no doubt about IR guided missile and Thermal Imaging . My query is regarding Active Radar guided missile only .

See, the missile launches with the target locked on. There are missiles which can be launched as homing and then be sent the signal from the plane while it is on the way,

Fine , but you can only provide this data / Flight path correction / New co-ordinates only till Mid-phase .

Once Missile switches to terminal mode , it needs it's own radar to track / prioritize that single threat out of multiple emmiters .

And the AIM 120 AMRAAM has an active radar of its own. So even in the chase/terminal phase, it can lock on the target.

That is exactly my question - How that locking is achieved by missile's radar , does it select randomly any threat .

It can also locate the target by the jamming signals/radio signals that the target is transmitting.

This is part of ECCM guidance of AIM120 , which turns missile from Active homing into Passive homing . I am not asking this - But still
There may be 3-4 Jammers in vicinity . Which one to Target ???

To get my point thru , I take example of Patriot missile

The radar utilizes a Track-via-Missile (TVM) System in order to reduce its overall cost. In semi-active systems, the radar illuminates the target and a seeker in the missile’s head tracks the reflecting energy. Then the missile computes the interception pattern based on its bearing to the engaging object. The TVM allows the missile to relay the same bearing data to the engagement control station via the radar. The platform’s powerful processors comb through the information with the absolute position of the target, the missile and the profile (velocity, altitude, bearings) of the engaging object and generate tracking commands to guide the warhead to the optimum interception point. In the terminal phase, the missile’s acquisition system acquires the target and relays the data to the phase array where the final intercepting calculations are performed.

Get my point , in Patriot data is relayed back to Phased array of MPQ53V where final interception calculations are done . Meaning missile is always associated with guidance from MPQ radar . This is called TVM(track via missile) & is different from Semi-Active radar homing .

While in R77/Aim120 once Terminal phase starts , missile dosen't depend on Jet's radar

 

[Patriot]

Well I doubt you'd find any one here with such advance knowledge of AIM120.Go to F-16.net forums there you will find many ex F16 Pilots who will answer your question.

 

[dbc]

Ok , you get the wrong side
Pneumbra , I have no doubt about IR guided missile and Thermal Imaging . My query is regarding Active Radar guided missile only .




Fine , but you can only provide this data / Flight path correction / New co-ordinates only till Mid-phase .

Once Missile switches to terminal mode , it needs it's own radar to track / prioritize that single threat out of multiple emmiters .



That is exactly my question - How that locking is achieved by missile's radar , does it select randomly any threat .

The AIM-120 seeker does not select a random target in the terminal phase, AIM-120 has a two way data link, target is designated and an appropriate launch heading is determined and uploaded to the missile guidance package by the aircrafts onboard computers based on the bearing, range, and elevation of the target information acquired from the launching platform after an IFF/IFFN probe. This is done before the missile leaves the launch rail and heads to a predetermined position in space.Post launch the missile continuously transmits data allowing progress to be monitored. Target designation does not change in the terminal phase - unless human intervention occurs and missile guidance instruction is altered.

The endgame occurs when the proximity fuze is triggered by the missiles target detection device (TDD) upon detection of the designated target. Of course before the proximity fuze is triggered target coordinates are confirmed with the support platform (may not be the launching platform).

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The AIM-120 seeker does not select a random target in the terminal phase, AIM-120 has a two way data link, target is designated and an appropriate launch heading is determined and uploaded to the missile guidance package by the aircrafts onboard computers based on the bearing, range, and elevation of the target information acquired from the launching platform after an IFF/IFFN probe. This is done before the missile leaves the launch rail and heads to a predetermined position in space.Post launch the missile continuously transmits data allowing progress to be monitored. Target designation does not change in the terminal phase - unless human intervention occurs and missile guidance instruction is altered.

The endgame occurs when the proximity fuze is triggered by the missiles target detection device (TDD) upon detection of the designated target. Of course before the proximity fuze is triggered target coordinates are confirmed with the support platform (may not be the launching platform).

That is too much detail ..

 

[Hasnain2009]

JF is leaving from FA
YouTube - Pakistan JF-17 Thunder. Flying Home From Farnborough International Airshow.

Guys did u notice these JF-17 wasnt taking off for Air Show or Aerobatics, but they took in very short distance and at impressive vertical climb, even they were loaded with full fuel, and with 3-external fuel tanks.

Guys my interest and hope in Thunder is increasing with time, as we are getting more inside info of Thunder day by day, so we previously surely underestimated our beautiful but deadly bird.

What an amazing air craft.

Long Live China-Pak Friendship.-

 

[Dazzler]

Maybe they wanted to create an impression after all by showing a very short take off. Not a bad ploy of you ask me

 

[Hasnain2009]

Maybe they wanted to create an impression after all by showing a very short take off. Not a bad ploy of you ask me

I think next block Thunder, with 100Kn engine will do J-10 like vertical climbs

 

[Patriot]

100KN engine cannot be put inside thunder..that kind of engine would be huge.

 

[Hasnain2009]

100KN engine cannot be put inside thunder..that kind of engine would be huge.

Ever heard abt chinese engine Ws-13?
It will have 100kn of thrust

Even we can hope for more powerful engine, coz the first engine of F-16A/B has 100kn thrust, while F-16E/F has 144kn thrust.

 

[Dazzler]

JFT is already capable to make vertical climbs but to an extent and not exactly the way f-16 or j-10 does. RD-93 has its advantages and so far PAF is happy with it.