JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[farhan_9909]

M-2000 soon to go for upgrades, Jaguars upgrades for strike, mki, Mig-29 Upgrades and new ones, mrca 125-200 of them, how are you gong to counter all of them. If you are debating you'll throw in ALCMs and we'll wreck havoc on indian side, you are mistaken indians have goodies on the side too, we should come out of "1965 era".

JF-17 is not worse but look at the where we are standing. They are growing beasts on the other side of the border, look back 20-22 Years where do we stand, look at India and Infact look at other world's air forces. This may sound stupid to many but I would keep talking about it J-10A was evaluated too late and when PAF decided to get a customized version again too late Thunder project should not have lifted off in the first place, that investment should have gone earlier to J-10B, Now if JF-17 i would invest in something i want to make sure its too good to be true too good to be challenge enemy, sounds stupid and funny but if you were looking for a knockoff low priced something F-16s, i would have invested in a little more if China can come up with J-10B that has its resemblance and inspiration from F-16 i would faily have invested more into it or something to come out as a direct competitor to F-16 block 40/50. Is it difficult? No is it impossible? No..time consuming Yes you get a better end product, we wouldn't be investing and taking chances on 2 different new products, both not matured not battle proven. For all i know i wanted to see PAF come up with a rip off and spin off of F-16 the world can rant about it.

FC-20/J-10B = Not yet into production for PAF
FC-20/J-10 induction around 2013/2014
Integration= add couple of years+ 2016/2017
Too Late
the forcast of 150 Thunder by 2015 would only be sufficient to replace say 8 squadrons. AESA equipped??

By jf-17 we got expieriance.
and tomorrow we can develop our own medium weight or 5th generation aircraft.
i dnt like j-10 or j-10B becasue it is 80% similar to the jf-17 after the upgrades.Pakistan budget is between 4-6Bn.and India is +30Bn.
so we cannot match them in quality and quantity both.
they dnt even consider pakistan as a threat except our nukes and Missile tech.
By exporting jf-17 we will get 50% profit.
and should invest in SAM tech like the israel-indo Barak missile

Only way to catch IAF is to develop our economy till the 2020.And then buy f-35 or J-xx.or dnt go for j-10B and and invest 5 Billions in the J-xx project,,1 Billion or less per year frm the defence budget and stick with only jf-17 blocks till J-xx is ready

 

[MastanKhan]

By jf-17 we got expieriance.
and tomorrow we can develop our own medium weight or 5th generation aircraft.
i dnt like j-10 or j-10B becasue it is 80% similar to the jf-17 after the upgrades.Pakistan budget is between 4-6Bn.and India is +30Bn.
so we cannot match them in quality and quantity both.
they dnt even consider pakistan as a threat except our nukes and Missile tech.
By exporting jf-17 we will get 50% profit.
and should invest in SAM tech like the israel-indo Barak missile

Only way to catch IAF is to develop our economy till the 2020.And then buy f-35 or J-xx.or dnt go for j-10B and and invest 5 Billions in the J-xx project,,1 Billion or less per year frm the defence budget and stick with only jf-17 blocks till J-xx is ready

Sir,

You still don't get---regardless of the experience---you still cannot manufacture a better plane after 5 years---first there is no industrial infrastucture---second there is no electronic infrastucture and research---third there is no money.

A fifth generation fighter developed by pakistan----maybe in fifty years time the way things are going.

This experience that the paf is getting is only for a JF sized plane and not for anything bigger or technically advanced---.

For bigger and technically advanced planes you need experience and INVESTMENT and high calibre engineers and scientists, which, incidently we don't have.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Sir,

PAF never ever meant JF-17 to be a contender against MKIs. No one said that.

The basic purpose for the initial 150-200 JF17s is to replace the decade old machines in PAF inventory. That is the sole purpose for the JF-17s initially, but what it became is a much much better and never thought about replacement, which has a future also.

Sir,

Thanks for the post.

Paf may have not meant for the JF 17 to be a contender against mki's but that doesnot absolve them of the need of getting a plane to be the contender against the MKi.

A contender in some form was the need of the hour---a contender of non american origin or other than the u s F 16.

Paf has basically left it upon the coming F 16 blk 52's to do that job---but those planes are as always on shaky grounds---our releationship is about to take a turn for the worst with the united states as the u s has started to threaten to attack ttp bases on our soil with american troops. Things may turn real ugly really fast.

Truthfully---with the inception of the JF 17, paf is seemingly giving out a clear signal to the indians---we are done with you---we don't seek any confrontation with you anymore---our planes are for a different purpose and utility.

Basically, this again comes out as a COVERT signal for peace---if everything about the JF 17 is what the postersare saying is true---then it is a white flag being raised by the PAF inadvertantly---.

If such is the case---then why not get done with formalities.

I will tell you the truth from my perspective----working in san jose---in the silicon valley and dealing with indians---I can tell you upfront---pakistan has no chance against the indians---the indians have taken their game to a totally different level---they have now totally integrated in the american society---as a matter of fact the americans are considering them as one of them now.

As far as pakistan and pakistanis are concerned---we are just waiting for the miracles to happen.

 

[Luftwaffe]

farhan, i am aware PAF is not matching iaf in quantity but the little quantity that we have after losing all out Lets be fair go for a single new product instead of 2 new products going through all the trouble a single new product that gives satisfaction as good as those F-16s. That is a very negative approach that JF-17 is meant to replace old airframes is that all its purpose? what is the psyche behind PAF approach going after J-10B while working on Thunders does thunder not satisfy them to that level that PAF has turned to J-10B, so does it mean that Thunder will not give that sort of satisfaction to PAF which is why they've again looked towards China for J-10B for its future mrca like contender because JF-17 performance parameters would be not up to the standards of PAF's future and that seems so as MastanKahn has pointedout. Lots of Questions perhaps only PAF must answer them and be transparent like the americans.
I hope for PAF would do their homework at the end of day.

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Mastan, my reply is a bit off topic, but I felt the need to reply. I am also in the bay area. There are a lot of educated Pakistanis in the USA, who have completely adapted and assimilated to the US life style and have done very well here. At the same time, however, there are a lot more Indian people here, simply due the difference in population sizes. That is why they (Indians) are more visible.

Moreover, Pakistan has a major image problem. The country is being shown as irresponsive in many recent Hollywood films, i.e. the last John Travolta movie, and a short scene in Iron Man 2, where they claimed Pakistan illegally bought stuff from a Russian physicist.

Pakistan cannot complete 1-1 with India, given the huge difference in available resources. Moreover, given the horrendous shape of the current law and order situation, no educated Pakistani will stay in that country or any business want to invest there. That country is facing a massive brain drain, whereas India is experiencing a well deserved reverse-brain drain, whereas educated Indians from overseas are coming back.

What I do find is that you are negative all the time, and always look for the bad in things. The JF-17 with all its so called flaws and limitations is the best thing for the PAF, given they have no experience in this field. Moreover, this was the only technology they could get their hands on, as no western country will sell this technology. Take care.

 

[MastanKhan]

Ang,

30 years ago--I told a similair story to a girl friend on the campus here---she said"----cut the crap---everybody has a sob story okay '---keep crying about your hard luck or do something about it. That zinger cut right through---was that painful or what----just a new guy from paklistan away from home and all that.

Sir, you are mistaken about your statement about pak community---pak community has been analyzed as the poorest most community amongst the foreigners in britain and u s and other european nations---their biggest crime is of not assimilating in the society---and not allowing their women to progress and share the burden.

A good general is never kind to his troops---a good president is never kind to his advisors---a good leader always asks for the most ruthless analysis---and so does a good commander---.

If pakistan has an image problem----it is not the creation of the movies---it is the creation of pakistanis---. It is not a hidden fact what pakistanis did to other paks after 9/11 in the u s---thousands and thousands of them were reported to the immigration by other pakistanis---.Was that a show of any character.

Who's problem is law and order---who's problem is a better image---who'sproblem is better economy---who's problem is utilizing the resources---who's problem is working honestly---who's problem is treating everyone with respect---who's problem is providing justice to the people---.




The John Travolta or the ironman movie had to do nothing with the image---. Pakistan has issues of its own---.

At first I thought you had some substance---you love your country and want to fight for it---you started with reason---but when I read your last para---about the JF 17----it showed me that you are mistaken about weapons systems---their procurement---and what they stand for---.

Simply put----when you don't have any experience in the field and your enemy has close to the best of the best----then is not the time to start looking to invent the wheel. From 2002 to 2005 pak govt had ample funds---to purchase whatever they wanted within reason to counter su mki---PAF CHOSE NOT TO---BECAUSE ITS ANALYST ANALYZED THAT THERE MAY NOT BE ANY THREAT OF FUTURE WAR BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA----for that reason paf didnot buy any stuff---.

We are going to have 6 awacs and three tankers---and I want to ask for what---who does pak want to conquer---with all this support group---then where is the frontline fighter interceptor. The F 16's cannot be refuelled with these planes---.

Who are we preparing to fight with all this weaponery---what depth of field we have to use all these systems---which air dominance fighter we are going to be using to complement our air flotilla. We don't even have a high tech platform to protect this flotilla today from an enemy attack. What are we thinking?

These are just simple question that any pakistani with some sense of reasoning has the right to ask.

What is there being negative about it? I just don't buy the story that paf has been selling to pakistani public for the last 45 years---. If they chose to play their flute all the time---I do have the right as well to pull out my harp as well.

I am not making any of this stuff up---it is all up there for the viewer to read and analyze---I am not even here trying to convince anyone---I am just trying to share---that there is an other side of the story that has not been told yet.

 

[ANG]

Hi MK, I never said Pakistan had not brought this on itself. The situation Pakistan is in, is due to its own fault and weak corrupt leadership. I have no sympathy for its current state of affairs. It is a bankrupt country that cannot even finance its own debt, and basically has to go begging donors to cover its bills. However, this thread is not to debate that or the fact you mentioned that someone went out with you (but I digress).

As such, given its financial and current state of affairs, no western country is going to sell Pakistan a high tech fighter, and getting TOT is a pipe dream. No one takes Pakistan seriously. Other than Chinese stuff, that is all they have access to. I also do not agree with the PAF buying more F-16s, as these planes probably have trojan horses in them to disable them, and the PAF is dependent on foreign spare parts. Thanks!

 

[Contrarian]

I can tell you upfront---pakistan has no chance against the indians---the indians have taken their game to a totally different level---they have now totally integrated in the american society---as a matter of fact the americans are considering them as one of them now.

Im sorry Mastan. Your post was funny. The way your talking, its almost as if everything was/is a conspiracy..!

Example: "Indians have taken their game to a totally different level"
You know the Indians didn't sit down together one day and decide- okay lets do this to trump Pakistan. We will join the mainstream of American society or something else for that matter..!

 

[cw2005]

If some opinion in this forum is true, Vietnam should have waved white flag to USA, North Korea did the same to South Korea and China did the same to USA. But it did not happen. I truely believe self reliance is the only way out longtermwise.

 

[mean_bird]

Gentlemen, this is the JF-17 thread so lets keep it as such.

Here's some news cross-posted from pakdef

FC-1/JF-17 Thunder Dragon/Thunder:

... The latest news indicated that the first taxi test of FC-1 powered by an indigenous WS-13 took place on March 18, 2010. ... (Last line at the end of paragraph)

 

[Kompromat]

^The news was already posted , thanks though.

 

[Lankan Ranger]

JF-17 equipped with WS-13 completed first successful runway test

According to 2010/03/18 edition of the HKB Report.

China Defense Blog: FC-1 equipped with WS-13 completed first successful runway taxi test.

 

[zagahaga]

nice but iam still in a defect stage when i heard that chinese cant make ws10 right so how can we say thqt ws 13 went smoothly as we do know chinese keep alot under cover

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Chineses know what they are doing

 

[aimarraul]

nice but iam still in a defect stage when i heard that chinese cant make ws10 right so how can we say thqt ws 13 went smoothly as we do know chinese keep alot under cover

now all the new j-11B is using WS-10 ,if everything goes well in the next two years.....FC-20,J10B