JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Dazzler]

Here is a French article with their admission over jf-17 as an emerging challenge for Mirage 2000-9s.

"A military contract with Pakistan blocked by Paris By RFI According to the Le Monde daily newspaper, Paris decided to block a big contract d' equipment of defense intended for Pakistan, l' electronics, and of the missiles which were intended to equip l' Pakistani fighter plan JF 17 manufactured with China. A contract of which the first section s' raise to 1 billion 200 d' million; euros - on a total of 6 billion, which could thus fall to l' water, not to annoy l' India, but to also perhaps protect l' French aircraft industry. The small hunter sino-Pakistani JF-17 enters in service in 2007, but very quickly, the soldiers Pakistani are not satisfied with l' Chinese electronics. They then decide to re-equip their planes with European systems. Companies Thalès and MBDA are selected. According to Le Monde, in 2008, interdepartmental Commission d' study of exports of weaponry gives an favorable opinion but, always according to the French daily newspaper, at three weeks of the visit in Paris of the First Pakistani minister Youssouf Raza Gilani, Paris would have made volte-face. The chief of the Pakistani government is waited on April 19 in Paris for an official visit. Pakistan would not give enough guarantees, in particular relative with the protection of French technology. Radars and missiles very last thing could find with the hands of the Chinese, main d' work of program JF-17 (Thunder). With the s' technology matters; add diplomatic and commercial stakes, because France is also under discussion to sell weaponry in New Delhi. Froisser would thus not need the Indian neighbor. Lastly, if France wants to export its Rafale in the United Arab Emirates, it must find a transferee for Mirages 2000 of l' army émirati. However, these planes could be resold in Pakistan. But if the JF 17 are modernized, l' Pakistani army n' more need for these Mirages d' will have; occasion… "

http://www.rfi.fr/contenu/20100403-c...n-bloque-paris

Interesting things have made their to the media recently especially since France has put avionics deal on hold. Many have discussed possibilities and concerns as to why this development when everything seemed fluent? One mentioned aspect that some might have ignored is the possibility that developed last year when UAE showed interest in Rafale and French began to jump as their expensive bird was about to get first overseas sale. The deal is still dangling and no final word is given by UAE as of yet. In order to get Rafale, they hinted they might get rid of Mirage 2000-9 and there emerged a possibility that India or Pakistan might be interested in them. India is already upgrading their Mirages courtesy MBDA and Pakistan is still deemed as a possible candidate for these birds.

Here is the interesting point, we asked for top of the line equipment for Thunders and they initially agreed to sell though having concerns over technology protection and possibility of Chinese involvement in future. Once the specialized variant was developed, Pakistan would not be interested in any of the used Mirage 2000-9s as French them selves deem Thunder as a capable enough fighter to challenge these 2000s anyway. Thunder is already ringing bells in Global Arms Market through various reasons as first, Russians considered it a challenge for Mig 29s and now French raised eye brows over its possible competition with Advanced Mirage 2000s.

 

[Imran Khan]

if its true then we have to sale first thunder befure they sale first refale as a slap.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Thunder is already ringing bells in Global Arms Market through various reasons as first, Russians considered it a challenge for Mig 29s and now French raised eye brows over its possible competition with Advanced Mirage 2000s.

Sir its quite obvious that the reason why French are reluctant to go ahead with the deal is because they are looking at the Thunder as a competitor now. I think this is a compliment for us because as you have said before and from what i have heard is that Thunder has far exceeded our expectations.

Its current batch of Chinlese Avionics and Radar are extremely advanced not to mention the EW suites that it fields. I think the French decision is a blessing in disguise for us because it will force PAF/China to focus more on improving the specs of Thunder instead of looking for a foriegn solution. I have no doubt that China will fullfill our needs because the pace with which they are going is simply astounding. Whether people like it or not but China is slowly edging out France and Europe in the Defence Market, while China has already started work on 5th Generation Projects the Europeans are relying on the American F35. In the end, in my opinion the French will be left red faced because PAF will produce the Block 2 batch and MMRCA will not go to Rafale.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Thanks for your advice nationalist,

I will fly in LCA from 2011, and ya i agree with you in one thing that it's going to Superduper!!

any why are you calling me Troll. i was talking about jf-17 in jf-17 thread.

in your opinion i am troll just because, i told some facts about JF-17

Really, i didnt know that your personal opinion counted as facts. On what basis do you base your argument on; avionics, radar, weapons package??? Please give me a detailed answer supported by facts, not your personal opinion. If you cant do that than your just another Indian fanboy.

 

[graphican]

Here is a French article with their admission over jf-17 as an emerging challenge for Mirage 2000-9s.

"A military contract with Pakistan blocked by Paris By RFI According to the Le Monde daily newspaper, Paris decided to block a big contract d' equipment of defense intended for Pakistan, l' electronics, and of the missiles which were intended to equip l' Pakistani fighter plan JF 17 manufactured with China. A contract of which the first section s' raise to 1 billion 200 d' million; euros - on a total of 6 billion, which could thus fall to l' water, not to annoy l' India, but to also perhaps protect l' French aircraft industry. The small hunter sino-Pakistani JF-17 enters in service in 2007, but very quickly, the soldiers Pakistani are not satisfied with l' Chinese electronics. They then decide to re-equip their planes with European systems. Companies Thalès and MBDA are selected. According to Le Monde, in 2008, interdepartmental Commission d' study of exports of weaponry gives an favorable opinion but, always according to the French daily newspaper, at three weeks of the visit in Paris of the First Pakistani minister Youssouf Raza Gilani, Paris would have made volte-face. The chief of the Pakistani government is waited on April 19 in Paris for an official visit. Pakistan would not give enough guarantees, in particular relative with the protection of French technology. Radars and missiles very last thing could find with the hands of the Chinese, main d' work of program JF-17 (Thunder). With the s' technology matters; add diplomatic and commercial stakes, because France is also under discussion to sell weaponry in New Delhi. Froisser would thus not need the Indian neighbor. Lastly, if France wants to export its Rafale in the United Arab Emirates, it must find a transferee for Mirages 2000 of l' army émirati. However, these planes could be resold in Pakistan. But if the JF 17 are modernized, l' Pakistani army n' more need for these Mirages d' will have; occasion… "

http://www.rfi.fr/contenu/20100403-c...n-bloque-paris

Interesting things have made their to the media recently especially since France has put avionics deal on hold. Many have discussed possibilities and concerns as to why this development when everything seemed fluent? One mentioned aspect that some might have ignored is the possibility that developed last year when UAE showed interest in Rafale and French began to jump as their expensive bird was about to get first overseas sale. The deal is still dangling and no final word is given by UAE as of yet. In order to get Rafale, they hinted they might get rid of Mirage 2000-9 and there emerged a possibility that India or Pakistan might be interested in them. India is already upgrading their Mirages courtesy MBDA and Pakistan is still deemed as a possible candidate for these birds.

Here is the interesting point, we asked for top of the line equipment for Thunders and they initially agreed to sell though having concerns over technology protection and possibility of Chinese involvement in future. Once the specialized variant was developed, Pakistan would not be interested in any of the used Mirage 2000-9s as French them selves deem Thunder as a capable enough fighter to challenge these 2000s anyway. Thunder is already ringing bells in Global Arms Market through various reasons as first, Russians considered it a challenge for Mig 29s and now French raised eye brows over its possible competition with Advanced Mirage 2000s.

This article makes some sense but I would not over-look the fact that India has got the contract the same day we got refused. If we stretch the suggested lines ahead, Pakistan would possibly end up at used Mirage2000 and our own bird which can eventually convert into gold-mine as 100s of them could be sold, would be at the most suffering end.

I think French would be loosing more if they halted this deal. JF-17 has 10s of potential buyers who would love to go for them after it becomes more lethal with French tech. Some senior members have been describing this number approaching a thousand. This aspect has more commercial gains instead of selling used mirages once. Countries who would receive French equipped thunders would become consistent source of orders for maintenance, upgrade and expansion. In my opinion, this aspect though has some login behind but not convincingly enough to turn down the deal with Pakistan. French would only do so if they know they are going to get nearly 1.5 times the money they would get by serving Pakistani and possible future orders through Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

Thunder Armed to Teeth with A2A weapons.

 

[qsaark]

This article makes some sense but I would not over-look the fact that India has got the contract the same day we got refused. If we stretch the suggested lines ahead, Pakistan would possibly end up at used Mirage2000 and our own bird which can eventually convert into gold-mine as 100s of them could be sold, would be at the most suffering end.

I think French would be loosing more if they halted this deal. JF-17 has 10s of potential buyers who would love to go for them after it becomes more lethal with French tech. Some senior members have been describing this number approaching a thousand. This aspect has more commercial gains instead of selling used mirages once. Countries who would receive French equipped thunders would become consistent source of orders for maintenance, upgrade and expansion. In my opinion, this aspect though has some login behind but not convincingly enough to turn down the deal with Pakistan. French would only do so if they know they are going to get nearly 1.5 times the money they would get by serving Pakistani and possible future orders through Pakistan.

I think French have done some homework before halting up this deal. While I largely agree with you, I do not agree in full that French will loose considerable business in the form of French-avionics equipped JF-17 as a potential airplane for ten or so countries.

The reason I see is that many (mostly cash strapped third world air forces) of the potential JF-17 buyers would most probably go for a JF-17 equipped with Chinese avionics for two primary reasons: A. Chinese avionics/armaments fitted JF-17s will be cheaper, and B. Chinese avionics/armaments fitted JF-17s will be less or not at all embargo-prone.

For those customers who could afford a JF-17 with French avionics/armaments could as much afford airplanes such as Gripen and MiG-29 and Vietnam and Thailand can be given as two examples.

 

[Kompromat]

Here is a French article with their admission over jf-17 as an emerging challenge for Mirage 2000-9s.

"A military contract with Pakistan blocked by Paris By RFI According to the Le Monde daily newspaper, Paris decided to block a big contract d' equipment of defense intended for Pakistan, l' electronics, and of the missiles which were intended to equip l' Pakistani fighter plan JF 17 manufactured with China. A contract of which the first section s' raise to 1 billion 200 d' million; euros - on a total of 6 billion, which could thus fall to l' water, not to annoy l' India, but to also perhaps protect l' French aircraft industry. The small hunter sino-Pakistani JF-17 enters in service in 2007, but very quickly, the soldiers Pakistani are not satisfied with l' Chinese electronics. They then decide to re-equip their planes with European systems. Companies Thalès and MBDA are selected. According to Le Monde, in 2008, interdepartmental Commission d' study of exports of weaponry gives an favorable opinion but, always according to the French daily newspaper, at three weeks of the visit in Paris of the First Pakistani minister Youssouf Raza Gilani, Paris would have made volte-face. The chief of the Pakistani government is waited on April 19 in Paris for an official visit. Pakistan would not give enough guarantees, in particular relative with the protection of French technology. Radars and missiles very last thing could find with the hands of the Chinese, main d' work of program JF-17 (Thunder). With the s' technology matters; add diplomatic and commercial stakes, because France is also under discussion to sell weaponry in New Delhi. Froisser would thus not need the Indian neighbor. Lastly, if France wants to export its Rafale in the United Arab Emirates, it must find a transferee for Mirages 2000 of l' army émirati. However, these planes could be resold in Pakistan. But if the JF 17 are modernized, l' Pakistani army n' more need for these Mirages d' will have; occasion… "

http://www.rfi.fr/contenu/20100403-c...n-bloque-paris

Interesting things have made their to the media recently especially since France has put avionics deal on hold. Many have discussed possibilities and concerns as to why this development when everything seemed fluent? One mentioned aspect that some might have ignored is the possibility that developed last year when UAE showed interest in Rafale and French began to jump as their expensive bird was about to get first overseas sale. The deal is still dangling and no final word is given by UAE as of yet. In order to get Rafale, they hinted they might get rid of Mirage 2000-9 and there emerged a possibility that India or Pakistan might be interested in them. India is already upgrading their Mirages courtesy MBDA and Pakistan is still deemed as a possible candidate for these birds.

Here is the interesting point, we asked for top of the line equipment for Thunders and they initially agreed to sell though having concerns over technology protection and possibility of Chinese involvement in future. Once the specialized variant was developed, Pakistan would not be interested in any of the used Mirage 2000-9s as French them selves deem Thunder as a capable enough fighter to challenge these 2000s anyway. Thunder is already ringing bells in Global Arms Market through various reasons as first, Russians considered it a challenge for Mig 29s and now French raised eye brows over its possible competition with Advanced Mirage 2000s.

French would be Disappointed , PAF is NOT going to buy those Mirages.

PN can consider puting a frigate deal on hold for one year and buy those Mirages and continue the Frigate deal in the coming year.
They can be good for navy but not for the Air force at this stage.

 

[bilal1219]

Dont know if this has been posted before. but this is an awesome video. I thought of making a seperate thread for this , but didnt make it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I would get the Rapheal only in 2015, 80 units with 20 spare engines

>That is the only deal french should get from Pakistan
>Provided they give us the Avionics for the Thunder for Pakistan
need

Its a double deal for France , mean while we get 4.5 generation figheter and New Avionics but we don't need it urgently

 

[TaimiKhan]

I feel sorry for you. Make sure that you make advanced arrangements for karya karam. Be confident that we will post the news in a thread of your choice in loving memory for you.

Couldn't have said any better.

 

[shanixee]

This article makes some sense but I would not over-look the fact that India has got the contract the same day we got refused. If we stretch the suggested lines ahead, Pakistan would possibly end up at used Mirage2000 and our own bird which can eventually convert into gold-mine as 100s of them could be sold, would be at the most suffering end.

I think French would be loosing more if they halted this deal. JF-17 has 10s of potential buyers who would love to go for them after it becomes more lethal with French tech. Some senior members have been describing this number approaching a thousand. This aspect has more commercial gains instead of selling used mirages once. Countries who would receive French equipped thunders would become consistent source of orders for maintenance, upgrade and expansion. In my opinion, this aspect though has some login behind but not convincingly enough to turn down the deal with Pakistan. French would only do so if they know they are going to get nearly 1.5 times the money they would get by serving Pakistani and possible future orders through Pakistan.

If your talking abt shot span...yes french will lose...but they saw a threat in a longer run. cause china will soon coop up with french tech and yes possibly go ahead then them...so they are protecting their interest. at least they wanna delay the thing so their industry doesnt feel threat by this...they plan for long term..

 

[Koga Ryu]

I would get the Rapheal only in 2015, 80 units with 20 spare engines

>That is the only deal french should get from Pakistan
>Provided they give us the Avionics for the Thunder for Pakistan
need

Its a double deal for France , mean while we get 4.5 generation figheter and New Avionics but we don't need it urgently

.
-------------------------
Are you drunk or some thing. Pakistani doesn't have sufficient fund. economy deep down in whole. Corrupt leader good luck buying any thing.

 

[Indian-Devil]

Sir its quite obvious that the reason why French are reluctant to go ahead with the deal is because they are looking at the Thunder as a competitor now. I think this is a compliment for us because as you have said before and from what i have heard is that Thunder has far exceeded our expectations.

Its current batch of Chinlese Avionics and Radar are extremely advanced not to mention the EW suites that it fields. I think the French decision is a blessing in disguise for us because it will force PAF/China to focus more on improving the specs of Thunder instead of looking for a foriegn solution. I have no doubt that China will fullfill our needs because the pace with which they are going is simply astounding. Whether people like it or not but China is slowly edging out France and Europe in the Defence Market, while China has already started work on 5th Generation Projects the Europeans are relying on the American F35. In the end, in my opinion the French will be left red faced because PAF will produce the Block 2 batch and MMRCA will not go to Rafale.

Hey Buddy why you are not looking at the facts, They have just put the deal on halt because of financial conditions of the total deal from Pak end. Its not denied till now by french officials. Why you are simply jumping on useless aspects that JF-17 is better than Mirage-2009. If economical condition improves for Pakistan and they see the financial confidence in pakistan then you will see deal is back on track.
So please till the time donot fly in ur assumptions of comparisions with Mirage2K9.
Secondly Mirage 2K or 2K9 manufacturing lines have been closed yrs back. So who will be the customer for new Mirage2K or 2K9 for which you think , JF-17 will be a competitor ??? There are huge differences between Mirage2K9 and JF-17 capabilities, which I donot want to describe here.
Regarding current Chinese Avionics and Radars are very extremely advanced n capable then why are you looking for French radars???

 

[Indian-Devil]

I would get the Rapheal only in 2015, 80 units with 20 spare engines

>That is the only deal french should get from Pakistan
>Provided they give us the Avionics for the Thunder for Pakistan
need

Its a double deal for France , mean while we get 4.5 generation figheter and New Avionics but we don't need it urgently

Really i am not getting the words to answer your posts. Do you even think before posting ur comments on any thread??
80 Units of Rafael and that too with 20 spare engines and obviosuly some weapons too,as i donot think you will be using chineese missiles on Rafael. Do you know how much it will cost to Pakistan???

To be honest French donot belive in soft loans or financial aid, so chances are not even 2 % by seeing current financial state for Pakistan. So better stick with JF-17 or may be J-10.