JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

[araz]

It depends on how much the JF-17 upgrades cost. The upgrade price will be added to each JF-17-2 that they build, building more JF-17-2 will make the upgrade price lower. The current JF-17 costs ~12 million each. How much extra do you think PAF should spend on each new upgraded plane? How many should they build?
If they find a customer for upgraded JF-17-2, they can reduce the price of upgrades further.

Yes FC-20 is a better design for a fighter, but jf-17 is a much cheaper design - it costs about one quarter of the price. Are four JF-17 or two JF-17-2 more dangerous than one FC-20?

Even if we spend 7-8 million extra per plane fitting in a good avionics suite and increasing the hardpoints and possibly better engine, it would not be a bad deal Where else will you get a decent 4+generationBVR capable, with 9 hardpoint plane with excellant maneouverability for 20 million? I think all the upgrades in JF17 are worth every penny one can muster. One also needs to look at what additional capabilities we lay our hands upon in the process.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Arsalan]

i think paf would upgrade 200 jf17block2 to somewhere inbetween f16 block40/52.. and keep only this block2 jf17 and sell block1jf17 to sudan/somalia whatever...
.
fc20 i think is a better design and i think paf would like to upgrade it and take its number higher rather than investing and radically changing jf17 design.
.
.
50jf17 block1.. 200jf17 block2...60f16[block 40-52].... rest fc20s.... perhaps add 2squadrond of rafale if without it the french dont offer the jf17upgrades
...
..
what do u guys think?

this seems to be the most probable option!!

we do not need neither we can afford to change the design of the plane, all that twin tail and internal hard point designs may well serve with a distinguished name for an entirely new plane. currently all we can and need to do is to get a more powerfull engine, and better radar and avionics! but this too, specially economically depends heavily on how the JF17 do in international arms market. if we manage to get customers for this plane it can do miricals for as as funding will come in and PAF will be able to improve the plane thus adding customers and the process will continue just as it happened with the F16z!!

i wish we get some customers for our JF17!!

 

[Muradk]

Mard sir can you please tell us what kind of F-16s were they....as in MLUs or not.....thanks

NO I don't think 703 is a MLU , no it was not.

 

[mean_bird]

pics attached

 

[mean_bird]

pics attached

 

[mean_bird]

All these pics coutesy of Xinhui from CDF

 

[IceCold]

I can't see the pics mean_bird.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Which Radar will serve best for FC-1/JF-17?
KLJ-10
RC-400
Grifo S7
Kopyo-F
Elta EL/M 2032

 

[MZUBAIR]

The following is old news but good to hear Bold words.

Friday, January 02, 2009 Serial production of JF-17 aircraft to start soon, NA body told


Serial production of JF-17 aircraft to start soon, NA body told

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) would soon start serial production of JF-17 Thunder in collaboration with China, Standing Committee of the National Assembly on Defence Production was informed on Thursday.

The committee, headed by Sheikh Aftab Ahmad, visited the PAC and was given a detailed briefing on the ongoing projects. PAC Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry gave a detailed briefing on the projects, informing them that the PAC has set up the factory for initiating the serial aircraft’s production. He said PAC had the capability to manufacture 75 percent of avionics and 58 percent of air-frame of the fighter aircraft.

About other projects being carried out by PAC, he said facility had been overhauling around 180 engines of various fighter jets and 60 aircraft a year. He also said the Mirage Rebuild Factory, which is a part of PAC has been rebuilding 35-year old Mirage aircraft, which were bought as scrap from various countries.

The chairman as well as members of the committee appreciated the work being carried out at PAC. They assured their full support to the management of PAC. app

 

[MZUBAIR]

Which Radar will serve best for FC-1/JF-17?
KLJ-10
RC-400
Grifo S7
Kopyo-F
Elta EL/M 2032

In my opinion Grifo S7 is good.

Range is about 100KM, Simultaneous engagement of atleast 2 targets.

Second option could be Kopyo-F
This Phased-Array Radar has range of about 75 KM. It can track 20 targets and engage 4 simulataneously

 

[MZUBAIR]

AIR to AIR JF-17 SD-10 missel

- Shan Dian-10 (SD-10):
SD-10 is beleived to be under development since 1997.

The SD-10 has four engagement modes. To take the greatest advantage of its maximum range it will use a mix of command guidance (via a datalink) plus its own inertial guidance before entering the active radar terminal guidance phase. The missile can also be launched to a pre-selected point, using its strap-down inertial system, before switching on its own seeker for a terminal search. Over short ranges the missile can be launched in a 'fire-and-forget' mode using its own active seeker from the outset. Finally, the SD-10 has a 'home-on-jam' mode that allows it to passively track and engage an emitting target, without ever using its own active radar or a radar from the launch aircraft. The seeker is connected to a digital flight control system that uses signal processing techniques to track a target. The missile's warhead is linked to a laser proximity fuse.
The SD-10 is claimed to have an operational ceiling of 20 km, with a maximum effective range of 70 km and a minimum engagement range of 1,000 m. The missile has a 40 g manoeuvring limit and, according to CATIC, it has been tested for a 100-hour captive 'live flight' life.
(From Jane's Air Launched Weapons 2003)


Specifications

Length: 3.85 m
Body diameter: 203 mm
Wing span: n/k
Launch weight: 180 kg
Warhead: HE fragmentation
Fuze: Active proximity fuse
Guidance: Inertial mid-course and /or datalink updates, with active radar terminal homing
Propulsion: Solid dual-thrust rocket motor
Range: 70 km (in a head on engagement)

 

[Super Falcon]

i think if a radar which is installed in SU 30 willl be installed in jf 17 will be great if we can get engines via china from russia why not radar for aircraft we get from russia via china

 

[Luftwaffe]

I have found this everyone on this thread must check this out it says in the end GRIFO S 7 has been selected for JF-17...

http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/Galileo_Avionica/Relazioni_Esterne/Scheda_Prodotto_2/Radar_2/GRIFOFAMILY.pdf

Check this out as well...also i find as if SELEX GALILEO is advertising JF-17 its cool actually...

http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/Galileo_Avionica/Relazioni_Esterne/Scheda_Prodotto_2/Radar_2/GRIFO_S.pdf

 

[Arsalan]

so the GRIFO S 7 is almost the done deal, atleast for the first block!

why havent we gone for the KLJ-10, it can detect upto 40 targets, track 8 of them and engage 2 at a time.
range of detecting a normal 3m srquare objetct is +100 Km and can also be used at sea (range 135 Km) and for groung attack role

forKLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China), Airborne radar systems
The full document for KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) is offered by Jane’s Information Group as part of its Jane's Avionics subscription service, available in both hardcopy and electronic formats.

You may purchase a full subscription to this service through the Jane’s Online Catalogue.

Title
KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China)

Section
Airborne radar systems

Appearing in
Jane's Avionics

Publication date
Jan 19, 2009

Type
Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR).

Description
The KLJ-7 Fire Control Radar (FCR), also referred to as Type 1478, employs a mechanically-scanned, phased-array antenna and is the main radar set for the Chengdu Aircraft Industries/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex FC-1/JF-17 fighter aircraft. A derivative of the KLJ-7, and likely employing a larger diameter array, the KLJ-10/J-10A, is believed to have been installed in the Chengdu J-10 fighter aircraft.In terms of development, the J-7 is reportedly similar in basic design to Phazotron N010 Zhuk family of radars; both Phazotron NIIR and rival radar house NIIP have worked closely in the past with Chinese radar design bureaux and provided technical assistance as well as operational models of Russia-made radar sets that were used as benchmarks in the process of Chinese firms developing their own designs. Nanjing have also reportedly drawn on the Galileo Avionica/Finmeccanica Grifo and the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Elta-2032 in developing their own radar designs. While the basic configuration of the J-7 may be similar to that of the Zhuk family, Nanjing utilises Chinese-made electronic components, multi-layered circuit boards, etc.The J-7 has multiple modes, both Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance and a robust anti-jamming capability, according to Chinese sources. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode.

Jane's Avionics

Containing detailed information on airborne electronic equipment for both military and civilian aircraft, Jane's Avionics ensures that you stay up-to-date with the latest developments and new production lines. Contractor and manufacturer indices supply you with the information you require to make all your procurement, training and commercial decisions. Each entry is arranged by country of manufacture and contains information on function, development history, technical description, specifications, operational status and contractor, supplying you with a detailed system assessment. Colour images are used wherever relevant to facilitate quick assimilation and comparison of important design and layout characteristics.

Key contents include:

Analysis
Avionic Communication
Navigation
Identification (CNI) Systems
Flight/Mission Management (FM/MM) and Display Systems
Airborne Electro-Optic (EO) Systems
Airborne Radar Systems
Airborne Electronic Warfare (EW)
Aircraft cockpits
Different sections provide in depth detail covering:

Airborne Electro Optic (Eo) Systems
Airborne Electronic Warfare (Ew) Systems
Airborne Radar Systems
Aircraft Cockpits
Aircraft Control And Monitoring Systems
Aircraft Identification And Safety Of Flight (Sof) Systems
Aircraft Navigation Systems
Analysis
Avionic Communications Systems
Combined Cni Systems
Contractors
Flight/Mission Management (Fm/Mm) And Display Systems
Glossary
The Electromagnetic Spectrum
About Jane’s
With more than 100 years of experience, Jane’s, an IHS company, holds an unrivalled reputation for the reliability,
accuracy and impartiality of our information and advice, trusted and relied upon by business, government and military
decision-makers worldwide.

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

 

[Arsalan]

so the GRIFO S 7 is almost the done deal, atleast for the first block!

why havent we gone for the KLJ-10, it can detect upto 40 targets, track 8 of them and engage 2 at a time.
range of detecting a normal 3m srquare objetct is +100 Km and can also be used at sea (range 135 Km) and for groung attack role

forKLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China), Airborne radar systems
The full document for KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) is offered by Jane’s Information Group as part of its Jane's Avionics subscription service, available in both hardcopy and electronic formats.

You may purchase a full subscription to this service through the Jane’s Online Catalogue.

Title
KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China)

Section
Airborne radar systems

Appearing in
Jane's Avionics

Publication date
Jan 19, 2009

Type
Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR).

Description
The KLJ-7 Fire Control Radar (FCR), also referred to as Type 1478, employs a mechanically-scanned, phased-array antenna and is the main radar set for the Chengdu Aircraft Industries/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex FC-1/JF-17 fighter aircraft. A derivative of the KLJ-7, and likely employing a larger diameter array, the KLJ-10/J-10A, is believed to have been installed in the Chengdu J-10 fighter aircraft.In terms of development, the J-7 is reportedly similar in basic design to Phazotron N010 Zhuk family of radars; both Phazotron NIIR and rival radar house NIIP have worked closely in the past with Chinese radar design bureaux and provided technical assistance as well as operational models of Russia-made radar sets that were used as benchmarks in the process of Chinese firms developing their own designs. Nanjing have also reportedly drawn on the Galileo Avionica/Finmeccanica Grifo and the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Elta-2032 in developing their own radar designs. While the basic configuration of the J-7 may be similar to that of the Zhuk family, Nanjing utilises Chinese-made electronic components, multi-layered circuit boards, etc.The J-7 has multiple modes, both Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance and a robust anti-jamming capability, according to Chinese sources. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode.

Jane's Avionics

Containing detailed information on airborne electronic equipment for both military and civilian aircraft, Jane's Avionics ensures that you stay up-to-date with the latest developments and new production lines. Contractor and manufacturer indices supply you with the information you require to make all your procurement, training and commercial decisions. Each entry is arranged by country of manufacture and contains information on function, development history, technical description, specifications, operational status and contractor, supplying you with a detailed system assessment. Colour images are used wherever relevant to facilitate quick assimilation and comparison of important design and layout characteristics.

Key contents include:

Analysis
Avionic Communication
Navigation
Identification (CNI) Systems
Flight/Mission Management (FM/MM) and Display Systems
Airborne Electro-Optic (EO) Systems
Airborne Radar Systems
Airborne Electronic Warfare (EW)
Aircraft cockpits
Different sections provide in depth detail covering:

Airborne Electro Optic (Eo) Systems
Airborne Electronic Warfare (Ew) Systems
Airborne Radar Systems
Aircraft Cockpits
Aircraft Control And Monitoring Systems
Aircraft Identification And Safety Of Flight (Sof) Systems
Aircraft Navigation Systems
Analysis
Avionic Communications Systems
Combined Cni Systems
Contractors
Flight/Mission Management (Fm/Mm) And Display Systems
Glossary
The Electromagnetic Spectrum
About Jane’s
With more than 100 years of experience, Jane’s, an IHS company, holds an unrivalled reputation for the reliability,
accuracy and impartiality of our information and advice, trusted and relied upon by business, government and military
decision-makers worldwide.

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics