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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

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Below Camparision b/w F16 & SU-30MK1

1) Radar Range:
Su30 MKI : 350+ Km dection range and 200 Km Tracking Range
F16 : 150+ Km detaction Range

BVR, Head-to-Head:
The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2
The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2

Maximum effective detective Range:


AN/APG-68 V5: 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-68 V9: 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target


N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target
NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
Source : (AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

Theoretically, then



The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.


The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.
The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.
Result : Only Latest Block 60 AN/APG -80 Radar Can Match Currently Su-30 MKI's, NO11M Radar in Range.


2) Number of Targers Dections :


SU 30 MKI Radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously.
F 16- ???? Plese Help ...
3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.

4) Speed :

Su30 : 2.35 Mach
F 16 : 2.0 Mach
5) Armaments :(A2A) Only

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Su-30 'Flanker'

JF-17 is inferior then F16 then why PAK selected it for mass production why not latest 4th or 5th gen Mirage???
 
.
Below Camparision b/w F16 & SU-30MK1

1) Radar Range:
Su30 MKI : 350+ Km dection range and 200 Km Tracking Range
F16 : 150+ Km detaction Range

BVR, Head-to-Head:
The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2
The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2

Maximum effective detective Range:


AN/APG-68 V5: 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-68 V9: 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target


N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target
NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
Source : (AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

Theoretically, then



The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.


The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.
The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.
Result : Only Latest Block 60 AN/APG -80 Radar Can Match Currently Su-30 MKI's, NO11M Radar in Range.


2) Number of Targers Dections :


SU 30 MKI Radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously.
F 16- ???? Plese Help ...
3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.

4) Speed :

Su30 : 2.35 Mach
F 16 : 2.0 Mach
5) Armaments :(A2A) Only

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Su-30 'Flanker'

JF-17 is inferior then F16 then why PAK selected it for mass production why not latest 4th or 5th gen Mirage???

High - low mode

high:f16/fc20

low:jf17


:coffee:
 
.
Apple to Apple comparison is always difficult between aircraft designed for different purposes.
SU-30 is a very big and heavy fighter aircraft and so has different operational doctrine compared to F-16 or JF-17.

JF-17 will really improve the PAF since it is designed to be a highly customizable aircraft and is planned to be equipped with much better avionics than our current workhorse F-7.
We have not really seen the combat ready JF-17 and its updated specifications/capabilities.
The main thing is that it shall be joint production and so the technological expertise gained would be tremendous and also we should be able to keep a very high number operational (a very important aspect).
Also with AEW&C capability one would think the JF-17 would be able to really add a significant punch in both offensive/defensive capabilities.

In a balanced Army (applicable to all branches) there always has to be a mix of weapons with different capabilities and costs (including maintenance) and i really believe that PAF has put a lot of thought into this induction and it was a step in the right direction.

Hopefully, time shall prove this to be a good decision.
:pakistan::china:
 
.
Apple to Apple comparison is always difficult between aircraft designed for different purposes.
SU-30 is a very big and heavy fighter aircraft and so has different operational doctrine compared to F-16 or JF-17.

JF-17 will really improve the PAF since it is designed to be a highly customizable aircraft and is planned to be equipped with much better avionics than our current workhorse F-7.
We have not really seen the combat ready JF-17 and its updated specifications/capabilities.
The main thing is that it shall be joint production and so the technological expertise gained would be tremendous and also we should be able to keep a very high number operational (a very important aspect).
Also with AEW&C capability one would think the JF-17 would be able to really add a significant punch in both offensive/defensive capabilities.

In a balanced Army (applicable to all branches) there always has to be a mix of weapons with different capabilities and costs (including maintenance) and i really believe that PAF has put a lot of thought into this induction and it was a step in the right direction.

Hopefully, time shall prove this to be a good decision.
:pakistan::china:


JF -17& F16 260 &70 will only balance IAF LCA 240 Nos.

PAF dont have any strategy to counter IAF future plan 2020 SU-MK1-260 Nos,4.5 Gen 250 Nos, 5th Gen 100 .

Can any body tell us PAF future strategy to balance IAF present superiority in air force????::undecided:
 
.
JF -17& F16 260 &70 will only balance IAF LCA 240 Nos.

PAF dont have any strategy to counter IAF future plan 2020 SU-MK1-260 Nos,4.5 Gen 250 Nos, 5th Gen 100 .

Can any body tell us PAF future strategy to balance IAF present superiority in air force????::undecided:

IAF will order F35s or su35s (before 2020)
 
.
JF -17& F16 260 &70 will only balance IAF LCA 240 Nos.

PAF dont have any strategy to counter IAF future plan 2020 SU-MK1-260 Nos,4.5 Gen 250 Nos, 5th Gen 100 .

Can any body tell us PAF future strategy to balance IAF present superiority in air force????::undecided:


abbay chup kar ja ab! even with one of the best lecture from all-green your brain still failed to comprehend the facts.

240 LCA? now thats where i am starting to get impression that you are not even a pakistani at all or even a human. as for the Chief director of LCA program, only by the end of 2024 will their be any fully combat worthy version of LCA with AESA and by the time they finish 240 orders thats like 2035+ you wont be here on earth by then so no need to worry!
 
.
I think JF-17 equipped with European avionics and Radars can pretty much take out all Indian Jets except maybe MRCA and MKI.J10 and F-16 will counter MKI.
 
.
abbay chup kar ja ab! even with one of the best lecture from all-green your brain still failed to comprehend the facts.

240 LCA? now thats where i am starting to get impression that you are not even a pakistani at all or even a human. as for the Chief director of LCA program, only by the end of 2024 will their be any fully combat worthy version of LCA with AESA and by the time they finish 240 orders thats like 2035+ you wont be here on earth by then so no need to worry!

Your heated response is not good sign as human and as professional .You should analyse both forces with fact and figures .
We can not improve ourself untill we have idea of our weakness

It is my advice to you always think with cool mind for better results.

thanks
 
.
Your heated response is not good sign as human and as professional .You should analyse both forces with fact and figures .
We can not improve ourself untill we have idea of our weakness

It is my advice to you always think with cool mind for better results.

thanks

warraich66...i think you have raised the same concern on another thread as well.

I guess it almost looks like many people assume all kills/engagements are going to be standoff with SU30 sniping F-16

I am sure it is not going to be that one sided, relax.

Like i said different planes have different capabilities.
So far we are good with upgraded falcons and J-10 (with subsequent expected upgrades). We may not have access to Gen 5 aircraft from US so that leaves Russia (very difficult), Europe (difficult) and China (quite likely though will take time).
Maybe we need to assess our needs for some time since Gen5 aircraft are a major jump and hasty decisions will not get us anywhere especially with many potential strings attached (including huge cost).

As far as LCA, i am not as enlightened as most of you on its progress but JF17 is a bird in hand whereas LCA is still nowhere near immediate induction.

so do not underestimate the steps taken by PAF (within their budget constraints and political hurdles)
 
.
The JF-17 / FC-1: A Light Sabre For the Third World Part II

Finer Salients

According to the JF-17's engineers at Chengdu, the JF-17 has the world's second combat aircraft to have DSI intakes. These intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. While the JF-17 began with a similar wing design concept to the F-16, The JF-17 has incorporated a leading-edge root extension that is similar in concept to the F/A-18. The leading-edge root extension (LERX) covers an area of about 9% of the Wing area. This has led to an improved Center of Gravity (CG) and better harmonization of its multirole capability by taking advantage of the pitch digital fly-by-wire Flight Control Systems (FCS) and the variations possible with the LERX.

The result of this is to improve control of the aircraft and to lower supersonic drag. Given the low margins on this class of combat aircraft, such improvement represent a significant feat.

The JF-17's Man Machine Interface (MMI), with full Hands On Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) and glass cockpit represent a truly 4+ generation in combat aircraft. The aircraft has the capa*bility to perform air defense, inter*diction, airfield strike, precision strike, and escort missions. While deep penetrations into Indian airspace may not be in the order of the day, given the close proximity of many Indian airfields and military installations, the JF-17 can play a significant role for the PAF, even in strike, a role sometimes overlooked by analysts. With the latest modifications and the newer version of the RD-93 (or WS-13), the JF-17 will be able to perform at a large radius of action.

In terms of meeting PAF's specifications, the JF-17 has the distinction of exceeding the PAF Air Staff require*ments, including (surprisingly), for the attack role.

The Russian RD-93, despite "engineered" controversy by the Indian media, is slated to power at least the initial batches of the JF-17. The RD-93 is to be equiped with advanced crystal blade technology and a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Other than improving the engine performance, the DEEC results in carefree handling under a wide range of conditions and at virtually all relevant altitudes.

The JF-17 has been designed from day one for ease of operations and maintainability. One such feature is that of a single point pressure refueling sys*tem. This significantly reduces the turn around time, meaning more sorties can be generated, while maintenance intensive Indian aircraft remain grounded. This is furthered by the modular mainte*nance design of the aircraft. The level of the serviceability and ease of general maintenance is further illustrated by how panels and components are installed at man's height and a full computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system can be relied upon.

JF-17 II: Evolution Continued

The JF-17 is a truly remarkable plane. Starting from the basic designs that Chengdu and the PAF were tinkering with, the Super-7 with basically a MiG-21 with side intakes, it has evolved into a completely different beast. The Internet Military Aviation community was taken by complete surprise, almost shock when the JF-17 came out with a modern cockpit, DSI intakes and previously unseen quality of build.

Yet, when even the most ardent followers of the program had thought that the JF-17 had fully evolved, it has once again surprised all of us in its next evolution. It is likely that this evolution is going to take shape after the second batch. Changes are comprehensive and across the board and include greater range, lower RCS, AESA radar and a new engine with greater TWR (thrust to weight ratio).

The lower RCS is to be reached using new materials, including advanced composites. A new RAM paint is also rumored that is said to be similar to that being used on the F-35. The nose will see comprehensive redesign and is rumored to incorporate a new AESA radar set of Chinese origin. One proposition is that the single tail is replaced with twin-tails similar to the F-35. A new DSI is also projected that will further lower RCS.

The TWR of the engine is projected to increase with the WS-13, which are likely to go into the second batch. The iteration of the WS-13, possibly the "WS-13A" is likely to go into the stealthier JF-17. Another painted scenario is of a further iteration of the RD-93. This will marginally increase the TWR further, which itself will increase the TWR marginally.

However, this increase in the TWR of the engine will be moderated by the increase in the wing size, greater internal fuel and the twin tails, amongst other weight increases. On the other hand, newer materials and over all weight decreasing projects in turn will moderate these weight increases.

The stealthier JF-17 will incorporate a larger wing, improving higher altitude maneuverability. This is a crucial aspect that is increasingly becoming important in BVR combat, where the higher and faster jets can in some form take pot shots at slower and lower BVR platforms. Another aspect of the larger wing will be increased internal fuel carrying capacity. This is addresses one of the areas that the JF-17 is weaker in - range and the ability to stay on station longer.

The nose, vital areas of the cockpit as well as a whole host of other technical areas will be addressed. the nose will in fact be fully redesigned around a new AESA radar and be formated to lower RCS. The DSI design is also being redesigned to better accommodate and optimize higher altitudes and higher speeds. A second generation of the onboard information collection, dissemination and display will be incorporated.

However, thrust vectoring will not be incorporated, neither will be internal carriage of weapons. This planned version may or may not go into production. However, all, most or many of the changes may be incorporated into the third batch of 50 being ordered by Pakistan. My personal opinion is that this prototype is more of a technology demonstrator. Major changes would not be appropriate unless a major export customer is found. I would think however that all the minor changes, as well as a few crucial major ones will be incorporated. This is likely to include the new engine, as well as the larger wings. Stealth features should also be incorporated but major redesign is likely to be avoided for the 3rd batch production models (such as twin tails and new nose). This version will be targeted for export and will not be part of the Chinese arsenal.

Much of this data is based on rumor, informed speculation and some insider sources. I am grateful to the military aviation community on the web, including Pakdef (particularly pshamim) as well as the dozen or so of the top Chinese military forums.
Note: Picture does not necessarily indicate future design.

Pervez Shamim of Pakdef recently adds:

Some more interesting news. We are aware of many of them. But thought that let me share what I heard recently.

We have seen the controversy regarding the JF-17 engines but now this matter is amicably resolved. And as result Pakistan has received the small batch of two (SBP) this year and doubts subsided. Before the end of this year, another six similar fighters are expected to arrive in Pakistan together with arms and the whole system within this month.

According to plan, the first installment of Pakistan produced- JF-17 next year will have air refueling capability with further improvements in the design. The new production JF-17 will be inducted in 2009. By 2015 Pakistan Air Force plans to replace all the A-5C (strong 5 - C), Mirage 3 and 5, and F-7 - P / PG.

In addition, the activities with and by foreign buyers has already started and a number of countries have shown strong interest in the JF-17.

In regards to the engines, Pakistan is not involved in the Sino-Russian RD-93 engine contract, but the Russians have made an oral commitment to Pakistan that it will not stop the transfer of RD-93 engines.
Taking into account the development of engine technology in the next RD-93 may be the new RD-93B replacement. The new engine thrust will have 10% increase. At the same time China is also developing its own aircraft engine and it may actually produce the RD-93B in China and that will ensure the supply of Jf-17 engines in the long run.

My Pakistani sources say that the new engine’s performance is superior to RD-93. More composite material will be added to the Fuselage. JF-17's Thrust-Weight Ratio will increase with increase in thrust.

The new engine will also provide China and Pakistan with advantage and will enable JF-17 to compete directly with the Russian MIG-29OVT

JF-17 in other areas have also been improved. Aerodynamic improvements have increased their mobility, as well as the ability to engage in a variety of tasks. The small batches manufactured JF-17 is likely to represent the ultimate models of aircraft body Design. Particularly noteworthy is the central fuselage of DSI inlet used in the JF-17 has brought some stealth capability. Other improvements include reduced body weight, through redesigned interior more space has been created, an increase of the fuel carrying capacity, and increased range. Aircraft will achieve speed of 1.8 Mach. After the the improved engine, aircraft’s performance will further be enhanced. The new information shows that the current design will be frozen for the next three years before some further changes are introduced.

Other internal changes that are taking place include the introduction of entire telex control and a more advanced electronic equipment. The new batches will include an IRST. The JF-17 has the all-glass cockpit as we already know, and the first 50 JF-17 will be installed with KLJ-10 radar. Pakistan Air Force is very satisfied with the performance of this radar

In fact there is a reason for making the KLJ-10 radar development very important as it will be put into the first batch of JF-17 for launch of SD-10 giving them the BVR capability. Pakistan Air Force has sought this core capability for a long time, and the JF-17 will be able to shoulder the huge air defense burden. Though there has benn some recent talk of Rc-400 and they may be integrated with the 2nd batch production, Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved .

Finally, the Pakistan Air Force will also use the data chain technology to achieve communication between different platforms for safety data transmission. In 2009 PAF expect to have Saab 2000 ready and gain the ability to use data links, JF-17 will also possesses advanced electronic warfare system, which is still in shrouds, New aircrafts will also have the missile attack Early Warning System (MAWS) sensors. With the new improvements in electronic warfare capability, PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52.

Domestic production JF-17

In 2008, Pakistan is confident of producing annualy 15 aircrafts, and gradually increase to an annual 25 to 30. Pakistan may double the production capacity if PAF wants the replacement of existing inventory on rapid and enhanced time table.

Pakistan is also hoping that 50% of the electronics and fuselage will be locally produced in Pakistan.

Grande Strategy: The JF-17 / FC-1: A Light Sabre For the Third World Part II
 
.
The JF-17 / FC-1: A Light Sabre For the Third World Part II

Finer Salients

According to the JF-17's engineers at Chengdu, the JF-17 has the world's second combat aircraft to have DSI intakes. These intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. While the JF-17 began with a similar wing design concept to the F-16, The JF-17 has incorporated a leading-edge root extension that is similar in concept to the F/A-18. The leading-edge root extension (LERX) covers an area of about 9% of the Wing area. This has led to an improved Center of Gravity (CG) and better harmonization of its multirole capability by taking advantage of the pitch digital fly-by-wire Flight Control Systems (FCS) and the variations possible with the LERX.

The result of this is to improve control of the aircraft and to lower supersonic drag. Given the low margins on this class of combat aircraft, such improvement represent a significant feat.

The JF-17's Man Machine Interface (MMI), with full Hands On Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) and glass cockpit represent a truly 4+ generation in combat aircraft. The aircraft has the capa*bility to perform air defense, inter*diction, airfield strike, precision strike, and escort missions. While deep penetrations into Indian airspace may not be in the order of the day, given the close proximity of many Indian airfields and military installations, the JF-17 can play a significant role for the PAF, even in strike, a role sometimes overlooked by analysts. With the latest modifications and the newer version of the RD-93 (or WS-13), the JF-17 will be able to perform at a large radius of action.

In terms of meeting PAF's specifications, the JF-17 has the distinction of exceeding the PAF Air Staff require*ments, including (surprisingly), for the attack role.

The Russian RD-93, despite "engineered" controversy by the Indian media, is slated to power at least the initial batches of the JF-17. The RD-93 is to be equiped with advanced crystal blade technology and a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Other than improving the engine performance, the DEEC results in carefree handling under a wide range of conditions and at virtually all relevant altitudes.

The JF-17 has been designed from day one for ease of operations and maintainability. One such feature is that of a single point pressure refueling sys*tem. This significantly reduces the turn around time, meaning more sorties can be generated, while maintenance intensive Indian aircraft remain grounded. This is furthered by the modular mainte*nance design of the aircraft. The level of the serviceability and ease of general maintenance is further illustrated by how panels and components are installed at man's height and a full computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system can be relied upon.

JF-17 II: Evolution Continued

The JF-17 is a truly remarkable plane. Starting from the basic designs that Chengdu and the PAF were tinkering with, the Super-7 with basically a MiG-21 with side intakes, it has evolved into a completely different beast. The Internet Military Aviation community was taken by complete surprise, almost shock when the JF-17 came out with a modern cockpit, DSI intakes and previously unseen quality of build.

Yet, when even the most ardent followers of the program had thought that the JF-17 had fully evolved, it has once again surprised all of us in its next evolution. It is likely that this evolution is going to take shape after the second batch. Changes are comprehensive and across the board and include greater range, lower RCS, AESA radar and a new engine with greater TWR (thrust to weight ratio).

The lower RCS is to be reached using new materials, including advanced composites. A new RAM paint is also rumored that is said to be similar to that being used on the F-35. The nose will see comprehensive redesign and is rumored to incorporate a new AESA radar set of Chinese origin. One proposition is that the single tail is replaced with twin-tails similar to the F-35. A new DSI is also projected that will further lower RCS.

The TWR of the engine is projected to increase with the WS-13, which are likely to go into the second batch. The iteration of the WS-13, possibly the "WS-13A" is likely to go into the stealthier JF-17. Another painted scenario is of a further iteration of the RD-93. This will marginally increase the TWR further, which itself will increase the TWR marginally.

However, this increase in the TWR of the engine will be moderated by the increase in the wing size, greater internal fuel and the twin tails, amongst other weight increases. On the other hand, newer materials and over all weight decreasing projects in turn will moderate these weight increases.

The stealthier JF-17 will incorporate a larger wing, improving higher altitude maneuverability. This is a crucial aspect that is increasingly becoming important in BVR combat, where the higher and faster jets can in some form take pot shots at slower and lower BVR platforms. Another aspect of the larger wing will be increased internal fuel carrying capacity. This is addresses one of the areas that the JF-17 is weaker in - range and the ability to stay on station longer.

The nose, vital areas of the cockpit as well as a whole host of other technical areas will be addressed. the nose will in fact be fully redesigned around a new AESA radar and be formated to lower RCS. The DSI design is also being redesigned to better accommodate and optimize higher altitudes and higher speeds. A second generation of the onboard information collection, dissemination and display will be incorporated.

However, thrust vectoring will not be incorporated, neither will be internal carriage of weapons. This planned version may or may not go into production. However, all, most or many of the changes may be incorporated into the third batch of 50 being ordered by Pakistan. My personal opinion is that this prototype is more of a technology demonstrator. Major changes would not be appropriate unless a major export customer is found. I would think however that all the minor changes, as well as a few crucial major ones will be incorporated. This is likely to include the new engine, as well as the larger wings. Stealth features should also be incorporated but major redesign is likely to be avoided for the 3rd batch production models (such as twin tails and new nose). This version will be targeted for export and will not be part of the Chinese arsenal.

Much of this data is based on rumor, informed speculation and some insider sources. I am grateful to the military aviation community on the web, including Pakdef (particularly pshamim) as well as the dozen or so of the top Chinese military forums.
Note: Picture does not necessarily indicate future design.

Pervez Shamim of Pakdef recently adds:

Some more interesting news. We are aware of many of them. But thought that let me share what I heard recently.

We have seen the controversy regarding the JF-17 engines but now this matter is amicably resolved. And as result Pakistan has received the small batch of two (SBP) this year and doubts subsided. Before the end of this year, another six similar fighters are expected to arrive in Pakistan together with arms and the whole system within this month.

According to plan, the first installment of Pakistan produced- JF-17 next year will have air refueling capability with further improvements in the design. The new production JF-17 will be inducted in 2009. By 2015 Pakistan Air Force plans to replace all the A-5C (strong 5 - C), Mirage 3 and 5, and F-7 - P / PG.

In addition, the activities with and by foreign buyers has already started and a number of countries have shown strong interest in the JF-17.

In regards to the engines, Pakistan is not involved in the Sino-Russian RD-93 engine contract, but the Russians have made an oral commitment to Pakistan that it will not stop the transfer of RD-93 engines.
Taking into account the development of engine technology in the next RD-93 may be the new RD-93B replacement. The new engine thrust will have 10% increase. At the same time China is also developing its own aircraft engine and it may actually produce the RD-93B in China and that will ensure the supply of Jf-17 engines in the long run.

My Pakistani sources say that the new engine’s performance is superior to RD-93. More composite material will be added to the Fuselage. JF-17's Thrust-Weight Ratio will increase with increase in thrust.

The new engine will also provide China and Pakistan with advantage and will enable JF-17 to compete directly with the Russian MIG-29OVT

JF-17 in other areas have also been improved. Aerodynamic improvements have increased their mobility, as well as the ability to engage in a variety of tasks. The small batches manufactured JF-17 is likely to represent the ultimate models of aircraft body Design. Particularly noteworthy is the central fuselage of DSI inlet used in the JF-17 has brought some stealth capability. Other improvements include reduced body weight, through redesigned interior more space has been created, an increase of the fuel carrying capacity, and increased range. Aircraft will achieve speed of 1.8 Mach. After the the improved engine, aircraft’s performance will further be enhanced. The new information shows that the current design will be frozen for the next three years before some further changes are introduced.

Other internal changes that are taking place include the introduction of entire telex control and a more advanced electronic equipment. The new batches will include an IRST. The JF-17 has the all-glass cockpit as we already know, and the first 50 JF-17 will be installed with KLJ-10 radar. Pakistan Air Force is very satisfied with the performance of this radar

In fact there is a reason for making the KLJ-10 radar development very important as it will be put into the first batch of JF-17 for launch of SD-10 giving them the BVR capability. Pakistan Air Force has sought this core capability for a long time, and the JF-17 will be able to shoulder the huge air defense burden. Though there has benn some recent talk of Rc-400 and they may be integrated with the 2nd batch production, Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved .

Finally, the Pakistan Air Force will also use the data chain technology to achieve communication between different platforms for safety data transmission. In 2009 PAF expect to have Saab 2000 ready and gain the ability to use data links, JF-17 will also possesses advanced electronic warfare system, which is still in shrouds, New aircrafts will also have the missile attack Early Warning System (MAWS) sensors. With the new improvements in electronic warfare capability, PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52.

Domestic production JF-17

In 2008, Pakistan is confident of producing annualy 15 aircrafts, and gradually increase to an annual 25 to 30. Pakistan may double the production capacity if PAF wants the replacement of existing inventory on rapid and enhanced time table.

Pakistan is also hoping that 50% of the electronics and fuselage will be locally produced in Pakistan.

Grande Strategy: The JF-17 / FC-1: A Light Sabre For the Third World Part II

I dont think ASEA radar system equivalent to the cost of F-16 or JF-17 will be wiser choice.
Any expert comments?
 
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SSGPA1,

I am pretty sure that some of the parts are being manufactured as of now.

PAF and EME are already designing and manufacturing components for Jets and MBTs.

Boeing realizes our capabilities and was going to set up a shop in Kamra for the repair of 777 (PIA) but after Musharraf, I am not very hopeful.
 
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JF-17 aircrafts to be produced in serial soon: NA body told Updated at: 0105 PST, Friday, January 02, 2009
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) would soon start serial production of multi-role fighter aircraft (JF-17 Thunder) in collaboration with China, Standing Committee of the National Assembly on Defence Production on Thursday was informed.

The Committee headed by Sheikh Aftab Ahmad visited the PAC and was given detailed briefing about the ongoing projects being undertaken by the prestigious organisation in the defence production sector.

The Chairman PAC Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry gave detailed briefing about the projects whereby informing that the PAC has set up the factory for initiating the serial production of JF-17 Thunder aircraft.

He said PAC has the capability to manufacture 75 % avionics and 58 % of airframe of the modern fighter aircraft.

About other project being carried out by PAC, he said PAC had been overhauling around 180 engines of various fighter jets and 60 aircraft a year. As during the last three years, since he joined as Chairman of PAC, around 160 aircraft and some 580 engines of the aircraft have been overhauled.

He also informed that the Mirage Rebuild Factory, which is a part of PAC has been rebuilding 35 years old version of the Mirage aircraft which were bought as scrap from various countries.

In the avionics sector he said state-of-the-art machinery recently imported from various developed countries has been installed to manufacture various gadgets for different versions of the aircraft in the inventory of Pakistan Airforce.

JF-17 aircrafts to be produced in serial soon: NA body told - GEO.tv
 
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Serial production of JF-17 aircraft to start soon, NA body told

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) would soon start serial production of JF-17 Thunder in collaboration with China, Standing Committee of the National Assembly on Defence Production was informed on Thursday.

The committee, headed by Sheikh Aftab Ahmad, visited the PAC and was given a detailed briefing on the ongoing projects. PAC Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry gave a detailed briefing on the projects, informing them that the PAC has set up the factory for initiating the serial aircraft’s production. He said PAC had the capability to manufacture 75 percent of avionics and 58 percent of air-frame of the fighter aircraft.

About other projects being carried out by PAC, he said facility had been overhauling around 180 engines of various fighter jets and 60 aircraft a year. He also said the Mirage Rebuild Factory, which is a part of PAC has been rebuilding 35-year old Mirage aircraft, which were bought as scrap from various countries.

The chairman as well as members of the committee appreciated the work being carried out at PAC. They assured their full support to the management of PAC. app

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I Hope we will get at least 10 more JF17s so that an squadron can be operational
 
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