What's new

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

Status
Not open for further replies.
i think u don't no that CAC is also filling PAF's order so
in 2007 = 8 delivered
in 2008 = pac 25+ 25 (cac)
in 2009 = pac 25+ 25 (cac)
in 2010 = pac 25+ 25 (cac)
now if u know maths correctly then : 158
No I didn't know that. Please post a link too.


and if u think that MIG-35 will be great and will be acquired in 2010 than it could possibly be also a rumor i hear indians are rumos mongerers if u find it offensive then i also find ur posts offensive always u ppl keep on claiming we can do this or that?????? but no result but we let our results speak.....
And I suppose you think that the MRCA is a rumor too. Just which post of mine did you find offensive. Please point out the lines that offended you. I take great pains to maintain a neutral tone. I'd like to see where I went wrong. The results of the JF-17 are yet to be seen. Those of the Su-30MKI are here to speak.

not to speak of comparing mig-35 with any other aircraft in pak's inventory even u ppl haven't signed a contract for it and u keeep on jabering like old women.... u ppl have always been day dreamer...>>
MRCA again. Its a frontrunner to it.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS U R NO WAY NEAR US !
You get riled very easily. How about backing up your above post with facts. My reply was to some assertions by Munir, were not intended as a brag.

mods i m sorry if i broke any rule of this forum but i cannot pocket any insult of pakistan on our forum by these ppl!!!!!!!!
What insult? ???
 
.
now if keep on posting u link then u post me a link that u have human brain fitted or u ur self r a human... does it need any link to prove that u r a human something r obvious .....

No I didn't know that. Please post a link too.

i heard some PAF personal saying it on a channel and 4 ur kind information he is in service.

And I suppose you think that the MRCA is a rumor too

now when did i say that????

The results of the JF-17 are yet to be seen. Those of the Su-30MKI are here to speak.
same can be said for MKI it can be said that it is just a speculation and plzz don't give me any link saying it kick raptor's butt or something like it... Su-30 MKI is still not battle proven dont tell me about some exercise that u had Copr 04-06 i m talking about real combat.

and if u want to know abt jf-17 program then just wait for the surprise that is coming with it in 4 months time my dear and then i will again prve that we let our work speak... just wait
 
.
No I didn't know that. Please post a link too.

now if i keep on posting u link then u post me a link that u have human brain fitted or u ur self r a human... does it need any link to prove that u r a human somethings r obvious .....
i heard some PAF personal saying it on a channel and 4 ur kind information he is in service so he cannot be lying infront of media like DRDO scientists.

And I suppose you think that the MRCA is a rumor too

when did i say that????

The results of the JF-17 are yet to be seen. Those of the Su-30MKI are here to speak.
same can be said for MKI it can be said that it is just a speculation and plzz don't give me any link saying it can easily kick raptor's butt or something like it... Su-30 MKI is still not battle proven dont tell me about some exercise that u had Cope 04-06 i m talking about real combat.

What insult? ???
i don't like ppl like u under estimating pakistan
and if u want to know abt jf-17 program then just wait for the surprise that is coming with it in 4 months time my dear and then i will again prve that we let our work speak... just wait
 
.
As usual pathetic reaction from our vnomad... according to him we brag and make assumptions. He needs evidence if we say something and if we show their dreams are unrealitic then we are wrong. Why acting kind and not kicking their arrogance? The reality is simple. India is not that developed and certainly not in the airforce. They failed in making LCA. They run to every producer to get attention. The MKI assembly isn't doing great just like the decades old Jaguar production line. Heck, the airforce did not even accept the latest batch.We will see how fast and how many planes the IAF will get. We saw that it took more then three decades and still they think that LCA is a wonderful plane. We saw that it took decades to buy a decent jettrainer... The Hawk... We see the slowly development in assembling MKI. Hell, it costs even more to do that then to buy straight from mother Russia.

Whether we have the productionline details or not, I do not care. People like vnomad shoud either act like decent people or leave to their virushole called BRF or Keymags. Does that hurt? O gosh, just read a few articles on BRF about Pakistan and you will see that we are more tollerant to a bunch of morons then anywhere else.

Stop posting crap like India is superior. It was not, it is not and surely will never will be. I agree it is bigger but more corrupt and more nationalistic...
 
.
I think that everyone should calm down here and rachet back the patriotism.

One of the reasons, that I joined this forum, was that people could discuss things here with out resorting to name calling (with a few exceptions obviously :partay: )

Just agree to disagree......

Oh and I think it is fair to say this....If you make a claim you should substantiate them.(BOTH SIDES!)
 
.
As usual pathetic reaction from our vnomad... according to him we brag and make assumptions. He needs evidence if we say something and if we show their dreams are unrealitic then we are wrong. Why acting kind and not kicking their arrogance? The reality is simple. India is not that developed and certainly not in the airforce. They failed in making LCA. They run to every producer to get attention. The MKI assembly isn't doing great just like the decades old Jaguar production line. Heck, the airforce did not even accept the latest batch.We will see how fast and how many planes the IAF will get. We saw that it took more then three decades and still they think that LCA is a wonderful plane. We saw that it took decades to buy a decent jettrainer... The Hawk... We see the slowly development in assembling MKI. Hell, it costs even more to do that then to buy straight from mother Russia.

Whether we have the productionline details or not, I do not care. People like vnomad shoud either act like decent people or leave to their virushole called BRF or Keymags. Does that hurt? O gosh, just read a few articles on BRF about Pakistan and you will see that we are more tollerant to a bunch of morons then anywhere else.

Stop posting crap like India is superior. It was not, it is not and surely will never will be. I agree it is bigger but more corrupt and more nationalistic...
MKI Assembly is going great latest batch has been delivered.It was cleared by HAL in a press release that the thing posted by media wasnt right and its going on smoothly.

LCA did not failed its just where arjun was 4 years ago.
the way we suffereed do you HAVE ANY BLLODY DAMN IDEA?

FBW means FLY BY WIRE.
VISTA WAS WHICH WE WAS USING FROM 1993 TO 1998 WITH HELP OG LOCKHEED MARTIN.
AFTER NUKE BLAST THEY TOOK AWAY EVERYTHING AND CUT ALL TIES.
WE HAD TO DEVELOPE OUR OWN FBW THEREBY DELAYING THE PROGRAMME FOR 5 YEARS.
LCA IS NOT FAILED ITS CREATING THE BLOODY AEROSPACE INDUSTRY.

SO DONT START SPECULATIONS.

i HAVENT READ WHAT VNOMAD SAID BUT 150 JF 17'S WILL BE THERE BY 2012/14 MOSTLY.
ITS A GREAT POINT DEFENCE FIGHTER WITH ADDED LOTS OF BELLS AND WHISTLES LIKE
PROS
1> RETRACTCABLE FUEL PROBE
2> DSI INTAKE REDUCING DRAG
3> VERY CHEAP
CONS
1> NOT FULL FBW PART IS CONTROLLED USING OLD HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
2> CANNOT CARRY LDP/EW AS IT DOESNT HAS THT POD MEANS ONLY ONE MISSION AT A TIME.
3> NO HMCS , HELMET MOUNTED CUEING SYSTEM.
REGARDS,
 
.
i HAVENT READ WHAT VNOMAD SAID BUT 150 JF 17'S WILL BE THERE BY 2012/14 MOSTLY.
ITS A GREAT POINT DEFENCE FIGHTER WITH ADDED LOTS OF BELLS AND WHISTLES LIKE
PROS
1> RETRACTCABLE FUEL PROBE
2> DSI INTAKE REDUCING DRAG
3> VERY CHEAP
CONS
1> NOT FULL FBW PART IS CONTROLLED USING OLD HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
2> CANNOT CARRY LDP/EW AS IT DOESNT HAS THT POD MEANS ONLY ONE MISSION AT A TIME.
3> NO HMCS , HELMET MOUNTED CUEING SYSTEM.
REGARDS,

1. Not being fully FBW is not a bad thing. Cost goes down and survivability actually increases. The JF-17 has much better manoeuvrability as it still adopts longitudinal dualplex FBW system and conventional mechanical operation for transverse control. So overall not a bad deal for an aircraft with all the bells and whistles and still a few bucks under the $20 million number.

2. The JF-17 will carry an external jamming pod just like the current Pakistani F-16s. The question will be which one?

3) HMD/S is a configuration that will be available with the JF-17.
Here is what the PAC is envisioning in terms of JF-17 capabilities:

# Dual redundant two mission computers
# Dual redundant 1553 Mux bus architecture
# Multimode Pulse Doppler Radar with high power air-cooled transmitter and capable of tracking multiple targets with prioritized firing
# Ring laser gyro inertial navigation system tied with GPS
# Smart head up display with up front control panel. HUD minimum total Field of View is 25 degrees
# Color video recording camera and video recorder (for SMFCDs)
# Data Transfer Unit with digital map function
# HOTAS
# Three smart multi function color displays
# Air Data Computer
# R/Altimeter
# IFF Interrogator/Transponder
# ACMI
# Standard Armament Interface Unit
# Remote Interface Box
# BVR Datalink
# V / UHF Communication System (Qty 02)
# Comm Datalink
# All associated antennas
# Warnings Computer
# ILS
# TACAN
# RWR
# MAWS
# CFD
# Other essential equipment like

* Day/ night laser designator pod
* Self Protection Jammer

* IRST
* FLIR
* NVGs
* Helmet Mounted Sight/Display

http://www.pac.org.pk/amfsite-final/jf17specifications.html

Lastly, JF-17 is not a point-defence fighter. This is a misconception. It has the ability to be used in a wide variety of roles. This aircraft is not in the same class as an F-6/F-7/Mig-21 with loiter times of 30-50 minutes...the IFR alone provides much greater range and loitter times to the aircraft and just the weapons suite alone disproves the notion of this aircraft being a "point defence fighter". It is a Multi-role aircraft by any definition.
 
.
well....just please give me linkssaying that there will be 100 F-16's.
According to me, there will be 70 at best. Again, i have no qualms about me being wrong. Just give me a link.

Now please provide LINK for any stated plans to induct J-10. There are none AFAIK.

Now, JF-17 maybe great in all respects. Its still limited by what is was intended to be. A low cost plane to flood the skies against the enemy. It is roughly a 3.5 gen a/c with some 4th gen abilities added. So its a very decent plane.

Now without being nationalistic, let me tell you
By 2012, we WILL have 190 Su-30MKI's. If you doubt its ability then qestion China which has bought sooooooo many Su-30, Su-30M, Su-30MK, Su-30MKK's.

As regards to MRCA....do you agree or disagree with it? that is do u think its a rumour or not?
You have been in enough defence forums for a while.
Do you disagree that a MiG-30MKI and F/A-18 E/F OR Rafale will be bought. Its a certainity.

Now again, stop mentioning AWACS as a huge thing, as we will also have that. Not to mention the fact that Phalcon is better than erieye, but again, Erieye suited Pakistan's needs, so no point in questioning that, you dont want a sword when you require a needle(metamorphical).

Now, to continue any further discussio rationally i request you to provide links stating the facts about either JF-17, F-16, J-10.

Thankyou
 
.
well....just please give me linkssaying that there will be 100 F-16's.
According to me, there will be 70 at best. Again, i have no qualms about me being wrong. Just give me a link.


Thankyou

there will be about 96 F-16.
right now, PAF has 34 F-16A/B. they will get 26(peace gate 4) used and 36 new block 52+. so the number "70" is wrong.
 
.
now if i keep on posting u link then u post me a link that u have human brain fitted or u ur self r a human... does it need any link to prove that u r a human somethings r obvious .....
i heard some PAF personal saying it on a channel and 4 ur kind information he is in service so he cannot be lying infront of media like DRDO scientists.
First of all, are you acting obnoxious on purpose? Secondly it isn't obvious to anybody that the CAC will be delivering aircraft to the PAF. It could be true and it could be false. If it is true I'm sure you can come up with a link proving it. I'll accept it then.

when did i say that????
Why do you think that induction of the MiG 35 by 2010 is a rumor?

same can be said for MKI it can be said that it is just a speculation and plzz don't give me any link saying it can easily kick raptor's butt or something like it... Su-30 MKI is still not battle proven dont tell me about some exercise that u had Cope 04-06 i m talking about real combat.
The Raptor isn't battle-proven either. The MKI's capabilities are known while the JF-17 are still open to speculation.

i don't like ppl like u under estimating pakistan
and if u want to know abt jf-17 program then just wait for the surprise that is coming with it in 4 months time my dear and then i will again prve that we let our work speak... just wait
Underestimating Pakistan?
All I asked was a link that said that 100 F-16 will be inducted and you replied with a basket load of insults. And then you claim I'm the rude one.

I don't make comments of this sort -
Code:
THE BOTTOM LINE IS U R NO WAY NEAR US !
 
.
well....just please give me linkssaying that there will be 100 F-16's.
According to me, there will be 70 at best. Again, i have no qualms about me being wrong. Just give me a link.

Now please provide LINK for any stated plans to induct J-10. There are none AFAIK.


This link and in a recent Interview ACM Tanveer CAS PAF said that they are going for 2 SQD of J-10s. If you search Google or any other search engine you will find that yes Pakistan is going for J-10s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force
 
.
there will be about 96 F-16.
right now, PAF has 34 F-16A/B. they will get 26(peace gate 4) used and 36 new block 52+. so the number "70" is wrong.

Please give me a link AFAIK they are getting 18+18 planes

let me give you links to state my claims:

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/85768.php/US-to-start-providing-F-16s-to-Pak-from-Dec

and another:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/07/05/2003317363

and another
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=16395

And Pakistan already operates about 30 F-16's.
So its 34+36=70 F-16's.

So please i am now requesting that some1 provide links stating that about 100 F-16's.
 
.
As usual pathetic reaction from our vnomad... according to him we brag and make assumptions.
Defend your statements with facts and not words then.

He needs evidence if we say something and if we show their dreams are unrealitic then we are wrong.
Production of 100+ MKIs by 2010 is unrealistic? Induction of MiG-35s by 2010 is unrealistic? An Elta-2052 AESA and GE-404 on the LCA is unrealistic?

The MKI assembly isn't doing great just like the decades old Jaguar production line.
Link? The assembly line has completed production of 10 MKI (Airforce Monthly December 2006 issue). Russia has also confirmed replacement of 18 MKs with MKIs.
Heck, the airforce did not even accept the latest batch.We will see how fast and how many planes the IAF will get. We saw that it took more then three decades and still they think that LCA is a wonderful plane.
The LCA has three problems -
delay- which doesn't matter since it is a modern fighter by today's standards

radar- all modes haven't matured which is why an Israeli AESA is being installed onboard as an interim measure
engine- Kaveri isn't ready but GE-404 have been procured for installation

The JF-17 also uses an imported engine and radar. So, now prove how the LCA is a failure.

We saw that it took decades to buy a decent jettrainer... The Hawk... We see the slowly development in assembling MKI. Hell, it costs even more to do that then to buy straight from mother Russia.
So what?

People like vnomad shoud either act like decent people or leave to their virushole called BRF or Keymags.
Act like decent people? I asked you for reports about 100 F-16s by 2010 but doesn't make me indecent and I'm sure the mods will agree with me.

Stop posting crap like India is superior.
In which line did I say that?

It was not, it is not and surely will never will be. I agree it is bigger but more corrupt and more nationalistic...
More corrupt huh? You'll get really cheesed off if I give you India and Pakistan's corruption ranking by Transparency International, so I'm desisting.
 
.
Please give me a link AFAIK they are getting 18+18 planes

let me give you links to state my claims:

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/85768.php/US-to-start-providing-F-16s-to-Pak-from-Dec

and another:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/07/05/2003317363

and another
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=16395

And Pakistan already operates about 30 F-16's.
So its 34+36=70 F-16's.

So please i am now requesting that some1 provide links stating that about 100 F-16's.

May be these links are more authentic for you

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1869.html

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/july-2006/4/index16.php

Sale of 36 F-16s demonstrates US commitment to Pakistan: White House

From Our Special Corresppndent
WASHINGTON: - The Bush Administration said Monday that it's planned sale of up to 36 advanced F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan demonstrates the United States' commitment to a long-term relationship with Islamabad.
The proposed weapons package, including the sale of 18 new "Fighting Falcon" fighters with an option for 18 more, was worth more than $5 billion, White House Spokesman Tony Snow told a news briefing.
The State Department said it was part of a drive to broaden a strategic partnership with Pakistan and advance U.S. interests in South Asia.
The new F-16 C/D Block 50/52 aircraft would be used for close air support in the U.S.-declared global war on terrorism, among other things, the Pentagon's Defence Security Cooperation Agency said in a notice to Congress. The agency, responsible for government-to-government arms sales, said the fighters would be worth $3 billion if all options were exercised.
"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping an ally meet its legitimate defence requirements," the Pentagon said in the notice.
The proposed sale includes upgrades for Pakistan's fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan eventually may buy, Snow said.
These 60 "mid-life upgrade" kits -- which would improve on-board radar and make it possible to carry more precision-guided weapons -- could be worth as much as $1.3 billion, the Pentagon told Congress in one of four related notices dated June 28 and made public on Monday.
Once notified, Congress has 30 days to block such a sale. It is not expected to do so in light of Pakistan's strategic importance to the United States. Consultations with Congress have been under way since last year, Snow said.
In March 2005, the United States said it would resume sales of F-16s to Pakistan after a 16-year break intended to sanction Pakistan for its nuclear program.
Formal notification coincided with initial votes in Congress for the administration's plan to create a broad nuclear cooperation agreement with India, Pakistan's archrival, that reverses decades of U.S. policy.
Pakistan initially had asked about buying as many as 75 new F-16s and 11 refurbished ones, Air Force Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Kohler, head of the Pentagon's security cooperation agency, told Reuters in May 2005. The deal was scaled back after the October 8, 2005, earthquake that killed more than 73,000 people.
U.S. weapons that would equip the F-16s include 500 AIM-120C5 advanced medium range air-to-air missiles and 200 AIM-9M-8/9 "Sidewinder" heat-seeking missiles, both built by Raytheon Co., as well as 500 satellite-guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions made by Boeing Co., the notice to Congress said.
India objected to the sale before it was made public. "We can reiterate our position that this step is not conducive to improving ties between India and Pakistan," Foreign Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna told reporters in New Delhi.
Washington has offered India a chance to buy F-16s or Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighter as part of a deal that could cement a sea change in U.S.-India ties since the end of the Cold War.
Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon's biggest supplier, said the proposed sale to Pakistan could mean an extension of the F-16 production line beyond 2009.
Lockheed spokeswoman Catherine Hernandez-Blades said that if all options were exercised the company could sustain more than an additional 1,200 jobs in Texas, where the F-16 is assembled. On June 28 the Administration notified the U.S. Congress of its intent to sell F-16 aircraft to Pakistan. The proposed sale includes 18 new F-16 aircraft with an option to purchase another 18 new aircraft, a support package for up to 26 used F-16s, a munitions package, an upgrade package for Pakistan's current fleet of 34 F-16s, and logistical support.Pakistan is a Major Non-NATO Ally, which has cooperated closely with us in the Global War on Terror, the White House said. "This proposed sale demonstrates our commitment to a long-term relationship with Pakistan. The proposed package is valued at approximately $5 billion. The Administration has been consulting with Congress on this sale since the spring of 2005."


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\27\story_27-9-2006_pg7_29

LATE NEWS: Pakistan negotiating strings attached to F-16s deal

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defence officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new “Fighting Falcon” warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.
The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan’s fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

“Negotiations are on and once the details are sorted out, further progress will be made,” Air Commodore Sarfaraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman of for the Pakistan Air Force, said.

Washington has demanded what it calls unprecedented steps to stop the technology of the advanced F-16s, their spare parts and munitions from falling into the hands of third countries — notably China, which has close military ties to Pakistan.

John Hillen, the assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs, told Congress on July 20 the United States had also proposed that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, must be approved by the US government in advance.

Hillen said the transfer of technology safeguards inserted in the contract were “unprecedented”.

Lockheed Martin Corp builds the F-16, but Boeing Co, Raytheon Co, Northrop-Gumman Corp and General Electric Co are other principal contractors involved in the deal.

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives’ International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies “that would usually go with an F-16,” including ones that would let it “be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended”.

Pakistan’s Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, told a newspaper on last Friday: “We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal.”

“Notwithstanding the ongoing F-16 negotiations, every aircraft deal has preconditions. Mostly these pertain to restrictions on transfer of technology, more akin to copyright laws,” he added.

Though the air force spokesperson did not specify the terms and conditions under negotiation, other officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested more talking was needed on the conditions set by Washington before Pakistan is fully satisfied.

In his testimony Hillen highlighted that Pakistan’s F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorised engineers could not get access to the US planes.

He also said US personnel would carry out inventories of the F-16s and their associated systems every six months. Reuters


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...es-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/
 
.
yeah, thats what my report states...that there are 18 new, plus the option to buy another 18 new and option to buy 26 old.

SO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THEY WILL BUY IT???
IT SAYS THAT THEY CAN BUY IT IF THEY WANT.

Infact, this report says that currently Pakistan is getting 18 new, with an option to go for another 18 new. It doesnt say that Pakistan is already getting 26 new, let alone the other 24 old ones.
This report just proves my point.

Give me a report that says that PAF has ordered 36 NEW PLANES and 24 OLD ONES. Dont give the MLU link. MLU is for the planes that PAF already has.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom