JF-17 Thunder: Made for the PAF

[amardeep mishra]

why not take PAC-CAC's word on the JF-17

Exactly,show me such a word

 

[Spectre]

and mate you know what,

Congrats to all.

Pakistan Zindabad



and mate you know what, (To give it a break here and relax)

Congrats to all.

Pakistan Zindabad

Sorry for going Off-Topic I am hearing news to contrary. Is the deal confirmed or not as the buyer itself is denying the deal

 

[Spectre]

Exactly,show me such a word

I second - No one has provided an official statement confirming the assertions made by some in the argument. I am yet to see a statement by PAC or whatever their nodal design agency is.

 

[Manticore]

Let's not make this personal, shall we?

 

[amardeep mishra]

Let's not make this personal, shall we?

It is @gambit who have been hurling personal remarks(refer to his remark on laughable phd,diapers etc) ever since he started commenting.Not only is he hurling personal remarks,he is also high headed and writing in very condescending manner.

 

[The Eagle]

Sorry for going Off-Topic I am hearing news to contrary. Is the deal confirmed or not as the buyer itself is denying the deal

Fruits later my friend, let the tree be grown. you will see results soon.

 

[TaimiKhan]

@gambit

Do these below pics give any idea with reference to the discussion on hand.

http://flying-wings.com/airshows/11_izmir/jf17/Izmir_JF-17-4041.jpg

http://flying-wings.com/airshows/11_izmir/jf17/Izmir_JF-17-5025.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...an_Air_Force_JF-17_at_Paris_Air_Show_2015.jpg

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/att...f-jf-17-participate-paris-airshow-1835052.jpg

http://www.jf-17.com/wp-content/lg-gallery/Zhuhai Airshow/JF-17-thunder-zhuhai-071.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uLxPlNJISRA/maxresdefault.jpg

http://q-zon-fighterplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Chengdu-JF-17.jpg


Many videos are out there also if googled.

 

[gambit]

@gambit

Do these below pics give any idea with reference to the discussion on hand.

Very good, sir.

These two are the best examples...

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/att...f-jf-17-participate-paris-airshow-1835052.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...an_Air_Force_JF-17_at_Paris_Air_Show_2015.jpg

 

[gambit]

This is an example for posts 253 and 330...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/1/9/2200917.jpg

The above is a Spangdahlem F-15 going near vertical. Look at the rear starboard horizontal stab. It is NOT parallel to the fuselage. The further away from vertical, the more pronounced the displacement.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/F-15_vertical_deploy.jpg

The above is a Tyndall F-15 at vertical. Look at the starboard horizontal stab. It is parallel to the body.

http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070713-F-0986R-003.jpg

The above is an Elmendorf F-22 not quite at altitude, as the background showed, but aircraft's nose up attitude is over 45 deg. Look at the starboard rear horizontal stab. It is parallel to the body.

The rear horizontal stabs returning to near neutral once the desired pitch up attitude is reached is characteristic of a relaxed stability design.

The laws of nature have many manifestations. Mathematics is one of them. And physical behavior is the final. In the absence of any manifestation before the physical, behaviors are the only clues we can go by in trying to guess what an aircraft designers had in mind.

So I do not know what is Mr. Mishra's gripe about the JF-17 and whether or not its designers had relaxed stability for pitch. Visual evidences seems to point to that direction, the same evidences that American aircrafts exhibits.

 

[VCheng]

This is an example for posts 253 and 330...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/1/9/2200917.jpg

The above is a Spangdahlem F-15 going near vertical. Look at the rear starboard horizontal stab. It is NOT parallel to the fuselage. The further away from vertical, the more pronounced the displacement.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/F-15_vertical_deploy.jpg

The above is a Tyndall F-15 at vertical. Look at the starboard horizontal stab. It is parallel to the body.

http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070713-F-0986R-003.jpg

The above is an Elmendorf F-22 not quite at altitude, as the background showed, but aircraft's nose up attitude is over 45 deg. Look at the starboard rear horizontal stab. It is parallel to the body.

The rear horizontal stabs returning to near neutral once the desired pitch up attitude is reached is characteristic of a relaxed stability design.

The laws of nature have many manifestations. Mathematics is one of them. And physical behavior is the final. In the absence of any manifestation before the physical, behaviors are the only clues we can go by in trying to guess what an aircraft designers had in mind.

So I do not know what is Mr. Mishra's gripe about the JF-17 and whether or not its designers had relaxed stability for pitch. Visual evidences seems to point to that direction, the same evidences that American aircrafts exhibits.

Good points Sir, but one static photograph would not be enough to make any robust conclusions given that the planes depicted might be (and probably are) in dynamic transition.

 

[Naif al Hilali]

1. Kargil was actually the opposite of what you suggest. Since it was Indian fighters and Pakistani fighters on their respective LoC sides. However, for the required offensive-defensive scenario, the JF-17s primary task is to provide air cover for a Pakistani Army offensive, battlefield interdiction along with carrying out mid range strikes against the key supply nodes for the IA(along with artillery and ancillary command posts), and undertaking strikes on certain closer airfields using stand off weapons.

2. Have mentioned the vunerability of ALL PAF aircraft to the IA's Air Defence Umbrella which consists of MANPADS, Akash, Sa-8, Tungska and Strela. To offset this, the PAF needs to invest in stand off CAS systems.

3. As mentioned in the article, the requirement for Pakistan vis-a-vis its airspace is fulfilled by the JF-17; Considering the short time between critical targets and the border. Speed in this case is not as much relevant to airspeed(which the JF-17 has respectable amounts of in terms of acceleration) , but time from alert to take off. Essentially, the aircraft should be able to be in the air in the shortest amount of time. In that respect, the JF-17 does quite well.
To demonstrate this point, I will post a sales move for the Northrop F-20 tigershark( a fighter which I consider the direct ancestor in philosophy to the JF-17).

You did. However, to demonstrate.

Ill link to this post.
PAF's Defensive Doctrine---Out of Ignorance---Out of Incompetence Or What? | Page 15

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Thanks for the video. Was looking for it for a while. To see the similarities with the JF-17 in design philosophy and radar development:

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

And we are done with you. For a claimed PhD, you have a sorry sense of logic.


Were they conducted under the aegis of GD ?

First...You dismissed my speculations about the JF-17.

Now...You are willing to accept third party analysis of the F-16 as valid.

This is why for a claimed PhD, you are laughable.

Heard from an Indian colleague. For IIT alumni, they call undergrads as products, masters as by-products and PhDs as waste products....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There are several video's made early on by PAC which are in the information pool and/or in the Jf-17 thread that show the JF-17 in constructional dn testing. Within these videos you will see more than a few PAF engineering working alongside the Chinese counterparts. So Mr Ma was heading a composite team of CAC and PAC engineers. The major programming of the aircraft is also in C++, so that allowed a lot of engineers to settle in fast as compared to those needing to go through the steep learning curve of ADA.

The PAF contributed in a variety of fields by essentially providing manpower to the team which Chengdu could not due to it being engaged in the J-10 program in parallel as well. Regarding the laws, the PAF's greatest contribution there were Pilots and engineers associated with the F-16 squadron who worked alongside the Chinese in the design phase of the laws; which you would be aware first involves looking into system architecture, then basic programming , moving onto fine tuning with the help of the pilot and wind tunnel figures. Because the JF is unstable in pitch only, the hybrid system needed only to focus on one channel as fly by wire while the rest are computer assisted hydraulic.

Isn't ADA more capable of exception handling? And, real-time systems development is always marred by failure in tackling exceptions..

 

[SQ8]

Isn't ADA more capable of exception handling? And, real-time systems development is always marred by failure in tackling exceptions..

C++ has caught up well, the F-35 is the motherload of exception throwers and yet so far it is doing ok

 

[araz]

It is @gambit who have been hurling personal remarks(refer to his remark on laughable phd,diapers etc) ever since he started commenting.Not only is he hurling personal remarks,he is also high headed and writing in very condescending manner.

Amardeep.
@gambit and a few others here are Ex Air force and given a lot more credence in view of their experience which is practical. As a friend my advise to you is to listen and if you do not agree let it be and move on. We have a few people on the forum whose behaviour is very argumentative and I hope you will not go down the same route. With Bilal Khan777 and gambit and Oscar you will always learn to name a few.
Regards
A