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JF-17 or HAL-TEJAS LCA?

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LCA and its Features

LCA is the smallest light weight multirole combat aircraft in the world, first modern fighter aircraft, designed specifically to meet the requirements of the Indian Air Force.

IAF insists on changes to Tejas

Tejas’ naval variant to take to the skies in 2009

I think 3rd generation aircraft carrying over into 4th and early 5th generation days are just about over. I don't think early and even late 4th generations will carry over well into late 5th or early 6th, I think the changes and advances are just too great. For example like an Mig-21/93 getting a shot off at a F-15C in certain situations won't happen between a MKI Flanker and a Block-II F-22 C/D model, is what I'm saying. The tech level between the two at that point will be too great.
 
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why the hell are we wasting time with these trolls? hasn't it become obvious to everyone that india has had a horrible year and Pakistan is moving ahead at lightening pace? Their aircraft carrier plans are being stalled, along with their nuclear powered submarine-which will really be controlled by the russians. My God, how hard is it for you indians to just accept the fact that you were all wrong.

-JF-17 is successful, Hal Tejas is not, it's failed and there is practically no hope left.

-you can't make a larger version of the Hal Tejas, that's the stupidest thing I've heard. It's critical-compounded delta wind design simply won't allow it. You will be looking at another aircraft all together, which will probably take at least another decade and half to design.

-I see indians having a hard time swallowing the fact that their project is dead thanks to their own air force, and instead they are predicting changes that we predicted to be on the JF-17.

-brahmos cruise missile is simply the Yakhont anti-shipping missile which was available for export in 1998. The only addition is a GPS guidance system that gives it very poor land-attack capability.

-it's funny to see indians compare Brahmos anti-shipping missile with the babur cruise missle. Do you (Pakistanis) ever wonder why indians refuse to accept the fact that we made it on our own and put up weak evidence to prove that we had chinese help? It's because they weren't able to make a real cruise missile like us! The best they could do is purchase an anti-shipping missile from Russia, leftovers from the Cold War.

-where is all the talk about india conducting surgical strikes into Pakistani territory? did they forget or did they just cower again, like they did in 2002? what do they have to loose? if they feel that we are weak, we don't have BVR, and we have pathetic weapons, why don't they attack us?

I'm saying all this because we Pakistani's need to stop being so pessimistic. These indians engage in a lot propaganda, so much that it's been starting affect our thinking and morale. They've taken over keymag and world affairs board, almost every commentary section on news websites.
 
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well the topic isreally attractive , as we may most probably see a combat between these two thunder birds in near future , as they are being inducted in their respected AFs at almost the same time and would also serve nation at the same time.
Can anyone tell me if PAF hae any plans for AESA on jf17.
 
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3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.



If Indian SU is out of operation range of F16 ,what is benefit of purchasing long range AIM120C5?:hitwall:

Mr. Einstein. That's the combat radius.

With regards to JF-17/F-16/FC-20 against the MKI all the aircrafts mentioned herein will receive real-time intel from airborne AWACS/AEW with far greater range to even up the battle.

JF-17 Thunder has a ferry range of 3500 KM. With regards to AA weaponry SD-10 has a operational range of 100 km and AIM-120C5 105 km.

All of the information you have pointed out is purely speculative. Heck, the IAF does not consider LCA as a worthy fighter which resulted in MRCA procurement plan not to mention the engine/operational trouble they had.


With regards to SU-30 MKI you should seriously watch the Op. Red flag briefing. You seriously need do some research dude before you commence a counter argument. I question your nationality very much.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.
 
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AESA on LCA?


I can only say that the Indians have a lot of money

order 200+ LCA?
 
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You are deviating from topic.If you can technically prove that JF-17 orF16 are superior ,it will be good news for pakistanis but for that you have to do some home work buddy!

I dont think indian are that stupid to buy 4 gen fighter if it is inferior then 3 gen fighter plan:hitwall:

What makes you think PAF is sleeping?

According to the ACM, PAF seeks to constantly upgrade the JF-17 with the addition of AESA, hardpoints and operational capabilities.
 
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Mr. Einstein. That's the combat radius.

With regards to JF-17/F-16/FC-20 against the MKI all the aircrafts mentioned herein will receive real-time intel from airborne AWACS/AEW with far greater range to even up the battle.

JF-17 Thunder has a ferry range of 3500 KM. With regards to AA weaponry SD-10 has a operational range of 100 km and AIM-120C5 105 km.

All of the information you have pointed out is purely speculative. Heck, the IAF does not consider LCA as a worthy fighter which resulted in MRCA procurement plan not to mention the engine/operational trouble they had.


With regards to SU-30 MKI you should seriously watch the Op. Red flag briefing. You seriously need do some research dude before you commence a counter argument. I question your nationality very much.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.


Su-30 Sukhoi
Su-30
ASCC codename: Flanker
Multi-Role Fighter

DESCRIPTION:
Based on the two-seat Su-27UB trainer and originally known as the Su-27PU, the Sukhoi Su-30 is a long-range precision-attack fighter similar to the F-15E Eagle series. Although retaining the air-to-air interceptor capabilities of the Su-27, the early Su-30 and Su-30K models are optimized for long-endurance missions of 10 hours or so. These aircraft are also fitted with a radiolocation system that allows them to transmit the positions of up to 10 targets to four other aircraft simultaneously. This feature makes the Su-30 suitable as a tactical fighter leader designating targets to be attacked by other aircraft. These variants were later joind by the multi-role Su-30M model that adds precision ground attack capability while carrying a range of advanced guided bombs and missiles.

Sukhoi has also actively marketed an export model, the Su-30MK, that has been purchased in large numbers by India (Su-30MKI) and China (Su-30MKK, Su-30MK2). India's aircraft are generally more capable than any other variant of the Su-30 and include canards as well as vectored thrust nozzles for improved maneuverability, a better radar, and more advanced avionics from Indian and Western sources. Current plans call for the Indian Air Force to acquire 230 units of Su-30MKI, and some 140 to 180 of these are to be license built at Hindustan Aeronotics Limited within India.

Indonesia has also shown interest in the Su-30MK, but acquisition plans have been significantly curtailed due to the nation's political and economic turmoil. Other export sales have come from Asian and Middle Eastern countries like Malaysia, Vietnam, and Algeria while Syria has also expressed interest. Perhaps the most controversial customer is Venezuela that ordered the advanced fighter to spite the US over a lack of support for the Venezuelan F-16 fleet.

In Russian service, the Su-30 has supplemented and replaced many older MiG-31 and Su-27 intereceptors and remains the most advanced fighter in the Russian Air Force. Several upgrades to the existing fleet are planned to maintain the aircraft's capabilities against competing combat planes until a next-generation fighter can be built in the 2020 timeframe.

Data below for Su-30M and Su-30MKI
Last modified 31 October 2007

HISTORY:
First Flight 1989
Service Entry

1992

CREW: two: pilot, weapons systems officer

ESTIMATED COST:

$34 million

AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root unknown
Wing Tip

unknown

DIMENSIONS:
Length 71.92 ft (21.94 m)
Wingspan 48.17 ft (14.70 m)
Height 20.83 ft (6.36 m)
Wing Area 666 ft² (62.0 m²)
Canard Area

not applicable

WEIGHTS:
Empty 32,020 lb (17,700 kg)
Normal Takeoff (Su-30M) 52,910 lb (24,000 kg)
(Su-30MKI) 56,590 lb (25,670 kg)
Max Takeoff (Su-30M) 73,855 lb (33,500 kg)
(Su-30MKI) 74,955 lb (34,000 kg)
Fuel Capacity 20,725 lb (9,400 kg)
Max Payload

17,640 lb (8,000 kg)

PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Saturn/ Lyul'ka AL-31F afterburning turbofans
Thrust 55,114 lb (245.16 kN)

PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: 1,320 mph (2,125 km/h) at 32,780 ft (10,000 m), Mach 2.3
at sea level: unknown
cruise speed: 860 mph (1,380 km/h) at 32,780 ft (10,000 m)
Initial Climb Rate 45,235 ft (13,800 m) / min
Service Ceiling 57,360 ft (17,500 m)
Range typical: 1,620 nm (3,000 km)
ferry: 3,770 nm (6,990 km)
g-Limits +9

ARMAMENT:
Gun one 30-mm GSh-301 cannon (149 rds)
Stations ten external hardpoints and two wingtip rails
Air-to-Air Missile R-33/AA-9 Amos, up to six R-27R/AA-10A Alamo, up to six R-27T/AA-10B Alamo, up to two R-27P/AA-10C Alamo, up to six R-73/AA-11 Archer, up to six R-77/AA-12
Air-to-Surface Missile up to six Kh-29/AS-14 Kedge, up to four Kh-31/AS-17 Krypton, up to two Kh-59/AS-18 Kazoo
Bomb up to six KAB-500KR laser-guided, up to three KAB-1500KR laser-guided, up to eight FAB-500 GP, up to 28 OFAB-250-270 GP, up to eight RBK-500 cluster
Other up to four S-8/S-13 rocket pods, APK-9 datalink pod
(Su-30MKI) EL/L-8222 radar jammer pod, LITENING laser targeting pod, High Accuracy Direction Finding (HADF) pod, flight refuelling pod

KNOWN VARIANTS:
Su-27PU Original designation of the Su-30
Su-30 'Flanker-C' Two-seat long-range, long-endurance interceptor based on the Su-27UB
Su-30K Improved Su-30 with in-flight refueling capability, strengthened structure, and greater range
Su-30KI Conflicting descriptions exist, but the most likely appears to be a single-seat Su-30K model for Indonesia with several features of the Su-30MK; cancelled
Su-30KN Upgrade available for the Su-30 and Su-30K
Su-30M Upgraded two-seat multi-role variant of the Su-30 with ground attack capability and able to carry a wide range of air-to-ground weapons
Su-30MK Export version of the Su-30M
Su-30M2 Upgraded version of the Su-30MK equipped with canards and thrust vectoring nozzles
Su-30MKA Su-30M export model for Algeria
Su-30MKK 'Flanker-G' Su-30M export model for the Chinese Air Force with improved avionics; approximately 150 built in Russia or license built in China with another 170 planned
Su-30MK2 Model similar to the Su-30MKK but optimized for maritime patrol and armed with anti-ship missiles; 24 built for the Chinese Navy and 11 for Indonesia
Su-30MK2V Export variant of the Su-30M for Vietnam based on the Su-30MK2; 4 built
Su-30MK3 Chinese model similar to the Su-30MK2 but equipped with the Zhuk MSE radar for use with the Kh-59MK anti-ship missile; may have been cancelled
Su-30MKI 'Flanker-H' Su-30M export model for India with improved avionics and enhanced multi-role capabilities, all to be upgraded with canards and thrust vectoring nozzles; 230 to be built in Russia or license built in India
Su-30MKM Su-30M export model for Malaysia with the same airframe, thrust vectoring, and canards as the Su-30MKI but different avionics; 18 ordered
Su-30MKV Su-30M export model for Venezuela based on the Su-30MK2

KNOWN COMBAT RECORD: none

KNOWN OPERATORS: Algeria, Al Quwwat al Jawwawiya al Jaza'eriya (Algerian Air Force)
China, Zhongkuo Shenmin Taifang Tsunputai (People's Liberation Army Air Force)
China (People's Liberation Army Navy)
India, Bharatiya Vayu Sena (Indian Air Force)
Indonesia, Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara (Indonesian Air Force)
Malaysia, Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia (Royal Malaysian Air Force)
Russia, Voyenno Vozdushniye Sili (Russian Air Force)
Venezuela, Fuerza Aérea Venezolana (Venezuelan Air Force)
Vietnam, Khong Quan Nhan Dan Viet Nam (Vietnam People's Army Air Force)

3-VIEW SCHEMATIC:

Su-30


SOURCES:

* Donald, David, ed. The Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft. NY: Barnes & Noble, 1997, p. 868, Sukhoi Su-27 and derivatives.
* Donald, David and Lake, Jon, ed. The Encyclopedia of World Military Aircraft. NY: Barnes & Noble, 2000, p. 414-415, Sukhoi Su-27P/PU/Su-30.
* FAS Su-30 site
* Gunston, Bill, ed. The Encyclopedia of Modern Warplanes. NY: Barnes & Noble, 1995, p. 268, Sukhoi Su-27 'Flanker'.
* Gunston, Bill, ed. The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft. Oxford, UK: Osprey Publishing, 1995, p. 367, Su-30.
* Müller, Claudio. Aircraft of the World. NY: Muddle Puddle Books, 2004, p. 306-307, Sukhoi Su-30MKK/MKI.
* Paul Nann's Military Aviation Photo Gallery
* Rendall, David. Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide, 2nd ed. London: Harper Collins Publishers, 1999, p. 103.
* Taylor, Michael. Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory 1996/1997. London: Brassey's, 1996, p. 92-93, Sukhoi Su-30 (NATO name Flanker).
* Taylor, Michael J. H. Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory 1999/2000. London: Brassey's, 1999, p. 72-73, Sukhoi Su-30 (NATO name Flanker).



These references are enough for you or you need more ...

Please read it carefully SU30 is superior then JF-17 & F16.

Both belong to different gens

You need little more home work to prove JF-17 & F16 superior then SU30-MK1.

Do you think indians are stupid to buy 4th Gen Air craft if it is inferior from F16 & JF-17????

F16&JF-17 are compareable to IAF LCA
 
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Waraich, no one is questioning the capabilities of Su-30 MKI. Yes, it may have limited BVR advantage but it is by no means invisible.

You should go through this thread carefully. Again, Wikipedia is NOT reliable for such information.

F16&JF-17 are compareable to IAF LCA

You clearly have no idea on what you are talking about. Again, do some research. F-16 is a combat proven fighter. JF-17 is in process of induction LCA is no where near induction.
 
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apr1000

let me burst your fantasy bubble.

 
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BY apr 1000 LCA
T/W:1.07
Max Takeoff Weight: 31,000 lb
JF-17
T/W: 0.95
Max Takeoff Weight: 28.000 lb

Mr. apr1000 look at the size of that flee called LCA and then read below to get into ur head about the post above max takeoff weight.

The Maximum Takeoff Weight or Maximum Takeoff Mass of an aircraft is the maximum weight at which the pilot of the aircraft is allowed to attempt to take off. The Maximum Takeoff Weight is the heaviest weight at which the aircraft has been shown to meet all the airworthiness requirements applicable to it. The airworthiness requirements include many related to strength of the structure, and performance. At its Maximum Takeoff Weight an aircraft complies with all the structural and performance requirements applicable to aircraft in its class.

The Maximum Takeoff Weight of an aircraft is fixed. It does not vary with altitude or air temperature or the length of the runway to be used for takeoff or landing. (A different weight, called the maximum permissible takeoff weight, or the regulated takeoff weight, varies according to flap setting, altitude, air temperature, length of runway and other factors. It is different from one takeoff to the next, but can never be higher than the Maximum Takeoff Weight.)
Maximum Takeoff Weight is usually specified in units of kilograms or pounds.

lil kiddo don't tell me F-16 max takeoff weight is 1000.
 
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Ok this guy Wariach, he is seriously trolling, His posts are being deleted over Defence talk as well. My suggestion to senior members here to ignore him on this topic.

To Wariach
If you are a pakistani what complex do you have? Seniors members have tried to explain you over and over and yet you come with the same argument again and again. Were you always that slow or did fall with your head down. Do you think the high brass of PAF is made up of bunch of fools and you somehow have more knowledge then they do. I'll suggest you again to raise your level of information before spreading out ill based information here and on other forums. You represent Pakistan, dont let others take advantage of you because of your lack of knowledge.
 
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Ok this thread is piece of crap. I suggest members to not post things which they have no idea of. If you have any questions or need understanding with something use the Questions thread, and those who have discussed these kind of topics to death will help you understand a little more.

Wikipedia will soon be banned from this forum due to the unreliability of the content on the military issues sourced by many members here. Most of the Wikipedia content is either edited by trolls, patriots, fan base, or the content remains old without any updates.

Thanks.
 
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