JF-17 or HAL-TEJAS LCA?

[spurdozer]

Hi guys. We know that JF-17 is soon going to be the backbone of our PAF INSHA-ALLAH. So is LCA in the indian AF. I wanted to know which aircraft is better and how much is the room of improvement in JF-17. Thanks

 

[waraich66]

Hi guys. We know that JF-17 is soon going to be the backbone of our PAF INSHA-ALLAH. So is LCA in the indian AF. I wanted to know which aircraft is better and how much is the room of improvement in JF-17. Thanks

JF-17 is inferior to F16 and F16 is inferior to SU 30MK1.

I think that is reason PAF dont try to intercept IAF planes recently infrated Pakistan Air Spaces.

Can any body tell why JF-17 selected by PAF for mass production not any latest Mirage ????

1) Radar Range:
Su30 MKI : 350+ Km dection range and 200 Km Tracking Range
F16 : 150+ Km detaction Range

BVR, Head-to-Head:
The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2
The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2

Maximum effective detective Range:


AN/APG-68 V5: 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-68 V9: 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target


N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target
NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
Source : (AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

Theoretically, then



The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.


The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.
The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.
Result : Only Latest Block 60 AN/APG -80 Radar Can Match Currently Su-30 MKI's, NO11M Radar in Range.


2) Number of Targers Dections :


SU 30 MKI Radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously.
F 16- ???? Plese Help ...
3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.

4) Speed :

Su30 : 2.35 Mach
F 16 : 2.0 Mach
5) Armaments A2A) Only

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Su-30 'Flanker'

 

[ejaz007]

Both planes are going through testing phase.

PAF has 10 JF-17 which are being tested for different mission parameters while I dont know the exact number of LCA's but these are also going through testing phase.

PAF shall induct around 250 JF-17 however IAF is still not clear how many they are going to induct. Surely LCA would not be inducted in very large numbers because of other planned inductions in the IAF.

There is always room for improvement no matter how good the plane is.

 

[wangrong]

Hi guys. We know that JF-17 is soon going to be the backbone of our PAF INSHA-ALLAH. So is LCA in the indian AF. I wanted to know which aircraft is better and how much is the room of improvement in JF-17. Thanks

LCA is still on paper until today.

you know LCA main role is to replace mig21/mig23.

If it is very expensive, LCA is a failure of aircraft.

I'll bet, we control costs better than iindians

 

[spurdozer]

JF-17 is inferior to F16 and F16 is inferior to SU 30MK1.

I think that is reason PAF dont try to intercept IAF planes recently infrated Pakistan Air Spaces.

Can any body tell why JF-17 selected by PAF for mass production not any latest Mirage ????

1) Radar Range:
Su30 MKI : 350+ Km dection range and 200 Km Tracking Range
F16 : 150+ Km detaction Range

BVR, Head-to-Head:
The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2
The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2

Maximum effective detective Range:


AN/APG-68 V5: 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-68 V9: 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target


N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target
NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
Source : (AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

Theoretically, then



The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.


The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.
The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.
Result : Only Latest Block 60 AN/APG -80 Radar Can Match Currently Su-30 MKI's, NO11M Radar in Range.


2) Number of Targers Dections :


SU 30 MKI Radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously.
F 16- ???? Plese Help ...
3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.

4) Speed :

Su30 : 2.35 Mach
F 16 : 2.0 Mach
5) Armaments A2A) Only

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun


So what are the options for PAF countering the Indian MKI's

 

[waraich66]

LCA is still on paper until today.

you know LCA main role is to replace mig21/mig23.

If it is very expensive, LCA is a failure of aircraft.

I'll bet, we control costs better than iindians

http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/...1217107203.asp

LCA is for light attacks,air policing only have similar capabilities as JF-17 &F16.

PAF dont have planes to fight with SU-30MK1 superior then F16

We should go for 4.5 or 5th gen mirages.

 

[waraich66]

So what are the options for PAF countering the Indian MKI's

We should go for 4.5 and 5th generation fighter planes

4.5 Generation Fighters (circa 1990 to 2000)

The term "4.5 generation" is also sometimes seen refering to more recent fourth generation fighters. These aircraft are generally seen as retaining the same basic characteristics of fourth generation planes but with enhanced capabilities provided by more advanced technologies that might be seen in fifth generation fighters. Good examples are the F-18 Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, and Dassault Rafale. All three make use of advanced avionics to improve mission capability and limited stealth characteristics to reduce visibility when compared to older fourth generation aircraft. However, none is considered advanced enough to be classified as a fifth generation fighter (though arguments can be made for the Typhoon and perhaps the Rafale).

Other members of this generation include:
http://www.military.cz/russia/air/suchoj/Su_30/big/su30MKI_1.jpg
Su-30MKI

http://www.avonds.com/Rafale-12%20(alt).jpg
Rafale


Four and a Half Generation Aircraft

Boeing F-18E/F Super Hornet
Sukhoi Su-30
Sukhoi Su-33
Sukhoi Su-35
Eurofighter Typhoon
Saab Gripen
Dassault Rafale


Fifth Generation Fighters (circa 2000 to ?)

The technologies that best epitomize fifth generation fighters are advanced integrated avionics systems that provide the pilot with a complete picture of the battlespace and the use of low observable "stealth" techniques. The F-22 and F-35 are the only fifth generation fighters developed to date, but Russia hopes that technologies being created by the Mikoyan Gurevich MFI and Sukhoi Su-47 may make them competitors in that market.

It only seems logical to name the F-35 as the ultimate example of this generation since the Joint Strike Fighter was the original inspiration for this entire subject. Other examples include:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/romain.g/f22-2.jpg
F-22

Fifth Generation Aircraft


Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
Lockheed Martin F-35

Probably The Russian T-50 [PAK-FA] will come here too


Keep in mind that these categories are merely one opinion and are not intended to be official in any way. Also note that it is not always easy to classify a particular aircraft. The long-lived F-4 and MiG-21, for example, could fall under second, third, or fourth generation depending on which variant or upgrade is considered. Nevertheless, we feel that the above list provides a good overview of the evolution of jet-powered fighters that should be useful to those interested in combat aircraft.

- answer by Joe Yoon, 27 June 2004

Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Fighter Generations

 

[Owais]

Hi guys. We know that JF-17 is soon going to be the backbone of our PAF INSHA-ALLAH. So is LCA in the indian AF. I wanted to know which aircraft is better and how much is the room of improvement in JF-17. Thanks

LCA is not going to be the backbone of IAF. SU30MKI Will be the backbone of IAF and we will be having very potent platform to counter it (F16 & FC20).

JF-17 is inferior to F16 and F16 is inferior to SU 30MK1.

I think that is reason PAF dont try to intercept IAF planes recently infrated Pakistan Air Spaces.

Can any body tell why JF-17 selected by PAF for mass production not any latest Mirage ????

JF17 is inferior to F16Block 50 But its much better than F16A/B. also, su30 only have radar advantage over it. PAF strategy is to counter MKI in 1:3 ratio in favor of JF17 backed by AWAC. also, su30 have rcs of 10.2m2 where as F16 have rcs of 1.2m2 & JF17 is supposed to have smaller RCS than F16. so radar advantage will be nullified after arrival of AWACs

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun

hey! who told you about these distorted figures??
may be you have visited BR

we are getting AIM120C5 having range of 90+km

 

[spurdozer]

LCA is not going to be the backbone of IAF. SU30MKI Will be the backbone of IAF and we will be having very potent platform to counter it (F16 & FC20).

Just to clarify the LCA's powers and abilities in which generation would you guys put it in? WIKI has put it in 4.5 generation. Another thing According to wiki India is also working on a 5th generation fighter aircraft named Medium Combat Aircraft.

 

[wangrong]

http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/...1217107203.asp

LCA is for light attacks,air policing only have similar capabilities as JF-17 &F16.

PAF dont have planes to fight with SU-30MK1 superior then F16

We should go for 4.5 or 5th gen mirages.

OMG!

F7/mig21/mig23---------2 gen
F16/su27/LCA/lJF17/J10--- 3gen
F35-----4 gen
F22-----5 gen

SU-30MK1 VS F35?

 

[Owais]

Just to clarify the LCA's powers and abilities in which generation would you guys put it in? WIKI has put it in 4.5 generation. Another thing According to wiki India is also working on a 5th generation fighter aircraft named Medium Combat Aircraft.

wiki is not a reliable website. any1 can put his edited junk on it. LCA is not even inducted by IAF because it doesnt meet their requirement. if realy LCA is a 4.5 generation, then why IAF is looking for new MRCA??

bro, you need to read this whole thread. It will clear you many things

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/5354-su-30mki-jf-17-air-fight.html

 

[Rajkumar]

LCA is not even inducted by IAF because it doesnt meet their requirement. if realy LCA is a 4.5 generation, then why IAF is looking for new MRCA??

LCA 4.5 gen air craft

its a jet trainer but it will become potent interceptor in future.
some fact about LCA from a documentry. its on my comp.
first flight of LCA 4 jan 2001.
its supersonic light weight multirole aircraft.
90% outer body made of carbon composite which lowers its radar signature considerably.
its avionics are comparable to mirage.

 

[waraich66]

LCA is not going to be the backbone of IAF. SU30MKI Will be the backbone of IAF and we will be having very potent platform to counter it (F16 & FC20).



JF17 is inferior to F16Block 50 But its much better than F16A/B. also, su30 only have radar advantage over it. PAF strategy is to counter MKI in 1:3 ratio in favor of JF17 backed by AWAC. also, su30 have rcs of 10.2m2 where as F16 have rcs of 1.2m2 & JF17 is supposed to have smaller RCS than F16. so radar advantage will be nullified after arrival of AWACs



hey! who told you about these distorted figures??
may be you have visited BR

we are getting AIM120C5 having range of 90+km

3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.


If Indian SU is out of operation range of F16 ,what is benefit of purchasing long range AIM120C5?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

JF-17 is inferior to F16 and F16 is inferior to SU 30MK1.

I think that is reason PAF dont try to intercept IAF planes recently infrated Pakistan Air Spaces.

Can any body tell why JF-17 selected by PAF for mass production not any latest Mirage ????

1) Radar Range:
Su30 MKI : 350+ Km dection range and 200 Km Tracking Range
F16 : 150+ Km detaction Range

BVR, Head-to-Head:
The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2
The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2

Maximum effective detective Range:


AN/APG-68 V5: 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-68 V9: 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target
AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target


N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target
N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target
NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
Source : (AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

Theoretically, then



The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.
The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.


The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.
The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.
The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.
Result : Only Latest Block 60 AN/APG -80 Radar Can Match Currently Su-30 MKI's, NO11M Radar in Range.


2) Number of Targers Dections :


SU 30 MKI Radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously.
F 16- ???? Plese Help ...
3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.

4) Speed :

Su30 : 2.35 Mach
F 16 : 2.0 Mach
5) Armaments A2A) Only

Su 30 : AA-12 / R-77 , Range : (90 km (R-77), 175 km (R-77M1)
30 mm Gun


F16 : AIM- 120 , Range : 50 Km ( medium Range A2A Missile)
20mm Gun


So what are the options for PAF countering the Indian MKI's

i had my dough about your IQ level but i was not any further from the truth! boy you have proven yourself to be the dumbest kid in the block with absolute zero knowledge about defence related topics! please dont answer with your brain still tempered by taliban anti pak elements!

to start with.

you should have known that PAF is undergoing massive modernization program! 1st combat ready JF-17 squadron will be delivered in 2-3 months fallowed with 4 F-16 MLU M3. by the end of 2012 PAF will be equipped with most modern 4th generation F-16s and 4.5 FC-20.

F-16 MLU M3 spec

APG-68 v9
range: 250+km

A2A missile
AIM-120 C5
range: 110 km

JF-17 block 2 "2011"
RC-400
range: 200km~

A2A missile
MICA
range: 60-70km
the new F-16 block 52+ is more advance then F-16 MLU and very capable of shooting down over hyped MKI.
not much is known about FC-20 other then its a 4.5 generation class fighter with european avionics.

btw pleez ask your arab masters to donate us 4.5 generation miraj and stealthy 5th generation aswel.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.


If Indian SU is out of operation range of F16 ,what is benefit of purchasing long range AIM120C5?

lol i dont have to remind myself i am talking to a talibani with absolute no knowledge of the topic.

APG-68v9 has 250+km range vs MKI size target while F-16 benefits smaller RCS meaning the detection range will be short. and just for the fact, AIM-120C5 is the most modern BVR missile in service!