JF 17 Maximum Speed...1.6 Mach or 2.0 Mach ?

[Tipu7]

Rightly said so. As the research papers on JF DSI proved. At mach 1.7, JF-17 DSI becomes unstable

Is there any detailed info available regarding DSI....? Any former thread or article?

 

[graphican]

Aaah! This Nawaz Shareef spolied the whole lot of deals for Pakistan Air Force on his visit to US when he accepted the offer of F-16s from them as a confrontation against Russia. We have damn too much F-16s now, PAF should focus on some other jets too.

Russians know we already operate F-16s and adding 8 more wouldn't change anything for us or for them... If Russians were looking to sell their jets to Pakistan, on the ground, nothing has changed for them or for us.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Russians know we already operate F-16s and adding 8 more wouldn't change anything for us or for them... If Russians were looking to sell their jets to Pakistan, on the ground, nothing has changed for them or for us.

Its all about budget sir, we are not too rich to go for everything, one has to make a wise choice.

 

[graphican]

It's all about budget sir, we are not too rich to go for everything, one has to make a wise choice.

Agreeing with you on making right choices, I trust PAF and its decision makers for making choices on our behalf. We do not have sufficient data before us, pros, cons, costs, infrastructural requirements or timeframe / availability of technology to us. Add geopolitics to it and the equation would look even more complex. But even if that data was available to us, we do not have the expertise to make wise decisions its basis.

We trust our soldiers and their commitment, determination and devotion for safeguarding this homeland. With that trust, I trust their decisions as well.

 

[Dazzler]

And the wing of one side was ripped off due to that. Despite of that, still a clumsy job that they didnt had the wing root strengthening from the get go and Only after the crash, they slowed down the production and strengthen the wings. It is on the record statement from one of JF-17 marketing or Project director interviews from last year. Before the start of Block 2 Production. that 33 block 1 wings had to be reconfigured.


2007: 5

2008: 3

2009: 4

2010: 16

2011: 8

2012: 6

2013: 8

2015: 16

It is not hard to infer from the stats, below and after the crash production rate and the 33 figure.

The program barely started in 2008, not to mention that the 2008-2013 era left no funds due to the corrupt zardari and co regime looting every bit of penny they could pounce upon. Remember the PAF 2025 program had to be pushed further because of the corrupt political regime among other minor reasons.

Regarding the upgradation of wing structure of 33 aircraft, it had more to do with PAF's wish for the entire existing JFT fleet to be able to handle the same payload as block 2s, thus, maintaining maximum commonality between the two blocks. However, payload is not the only common factor between the two.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If a speed is the factor of good performance then jf 17 speed should maximum 2 mach, If not then 1.6 mach is enough.

running at sustained full speed is unrealistic and moronic expectation. there is much more to a jet fighter than its speed which is only useful in the intercept or escape situations.

 

[niaz]

Max speed of the aircraft is only one of the important variables in its performance. To the best of my knowledge, assuming all things including pilots skills being equal, factors that influence capability of a fighter are:

Rate of climb, maximum speed especially at low level, operational ceiling, endurance & range, turning circle, acceleration, sustained speed during turn. Last but not the least being radar & avionics. One can add weapon carrying capacity to the above for multirole fighter bombers.

On this basis, thrust to weight ratio, which has direct influence on acceleration, rate of turn & rate of climb as well as maximum speed, is of critical importance. Additionally, wing & fuselage design such as design of tail or canards, wing loading would also have major effect in a dog fight.

Generally a low wing loading (loaded weight divided by wing area) implies better manoeuvrability. Nearly all modern fighters are unstable which make these more manoeuvrable. Thrust vectoring is also primarily meant to make aircraft turn sharply without loss of speed. In 4+ generation and later aircrafts, ability to engage multiple targets and to shoot before you can be seen is considered the key factor. Since most dog fights are trans-sonic speed, maximum speed has become less critical.

In my humble opinion, Block-3 thunder with improved avionics & radar and equipped with 2 BVR and 2 WVR missiles would be a match for any aircraft except the ones with stealth technology. Would I like to see max speed of Thunder to be Mach 2 or better? Yes but not at the expense of any of the other factors noted above.

 

[James David]

if pakistan is building the jf-17 why buy more f16's? also what type of f16 are pakistan getting?

Yeah I want to ask the same thing... Why is that? If all the hype about the so called Thunder though is real then no need for the F-16 right @Blue Marlin ? I am no aviation expert here @gambit sir, I think your inputs will be very much appreciated.

 

[barbarosa]

Is jf17 not face to the air to air missile which speed is about 4 mach? Is jf 17 not face to anti aircraft gun which bullet speed is how much i do not know? Then it,s speed should not less than 2 mach. For all blocks of jf 17.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yeah I want to ask the same thing... Why is that? If all the hype about the so called Thunder though is real then no need for the F-16 right @Blue Marlin ? I am no aviation expert here @gambit sir, I think your inputs will be very much appreciated.

well in terms of payload the f16 can carry just under 8000kg whilst the jf-17 can carry 3700kg
so the f16 is a medium weight fighter whilst the jf-17 is light weight. also in terms of tech the f16 is superior.
the chinese equivelant of the f16 is the j10.

 

[Icarus]

Yeah I want to ask the same thing... Why is that? If all the hype about the so called Thunder though is real then no need for the F-16 right @Blue Marlin ? I am no aviation expert here @gambit sir, I think your inputs will be very much appreciated.

F-16 has a larger carry capacity and its also a vetted bird that has countless flight hour with Pakistani pilots. No airforce puts all their eggs in one basket and that is why the PAF wants to maintain a fleet of at least three different makes of aircraft. The existing F-16 after MLUs and new Blk-52 acquisitions has a service life of easily over another two decades so it makes sense to expand that platform rather than breaking off midway and look for another fighter. PAF technicians, pilots, our tie ins with TurAF all make the F-16 a choice fighter for Pakistan in its category.

 

[Blue Marlin]

F-16 has a larger carry capacity and its also a vetted bird that has countless flight hour with Pakistani pilots. No airforce puts all their eggs in one basket and that is why the PAF wants to maintain a fleet of at least three different makes of aircraft. The existing F-16 after MLUs and new Blk-52 acquisitions has a service life of easily over another two decades so it makes sense to expand that platform rather than breaking off midway and look for another fighter. PAF technicians, pilots, our tie ins with TurAF all make the F-16 a choice fighter for Pakistan in its category.

what about the f16 a/b that have gone through the mlu programe, they only have a life span of 15 years whilst new of the shelf f16's have a life span of over 20 years. meaning there will be a gap between the mlu and the new airframes in 15 years time

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

After the 8 -F-16 deal were going to buy more ???, I think there for replacing the Mirages and F-7s ?

No, other way around. F-16s are supposed to be our main punch while the JF-17s are meant to replaced all of our vintage aircraft.

 

[Icarus]

what about the f16 a/b that have gone through the mlu programe, they only have a life span of 15 years whilst new of the shelf f16's have a life span of over 20 years. meaning there will be a gap between the mlu and the new airframes in 15 years time

The service life of the entire fleet is noted at "about two decades", even after 15 years the MLUs will also have a decade of flight in them if we are tentative (we're cheap like that) and any MLU's that are unfit to fly by that time will probably be cannibalized to ensure that other MLUs remain flight worthy. At the same time, I believe PAF will have started induction of a new replacement bird in advance as we are seeing with the F-7s and Mirage III/Vs

 

[Blue Marlin]

what about the f16 a/b that have gone through the mlu programe, they only have a life span of 15 years whilst new of the shelf f16's have a life span of over 20 years. meaning there will be a gap between the mlu and the new airframes in 15 years time

The service life of the entire fleet is noted at "about two decades", even after 15 years the MLUs will also have a decade of flight in them if we are tentative (we're cheap like that) and any MLU's that are unfit to fly by that time will probably be cannibalized to ensure that other MLUs remain flight worthy. At the same time, I believe PAF will have started induction of a new replacement bird in advance as we are seeing with the F-7s and Mirage III/Vs

and what will this new bird be? do i see the j31 over the horizon coupled with some f16's? speaking of f16's they have just been halted.
F-16 sale delayed in US Congress - Newspaper - DAWN.COM