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JF 17 is The Wrong Omnirole Aircraft For PAKISTAN

amused or not........ you still unable answer my question ? still pending....and if you think i have seriously wrote down that post about vedic origin fighter..then you are one who need to check down their mental capacity....
Hi,

No< not at all, I jut quoted a vedic example which was actually said by your top level govt officials ! So it is them who who you should question the mental capacity.

Exactly like your mental capacity which suggested us to get f-22 raptor and the asking irrelevantly why jf-17 was REJECTED, when it wasn't clearly selected in trial. The fact was that jf-17 was gonna go to their evaluation process.

Now answer why did the MOTHER OF ALL DEFENCE deals died ?
 
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no kaveri engine programme was never cancelled and it will keep evolving and more effort and money will get pumped in till the day we meet owr requirements

even there are three spinoffs from kaveri engine which are used in many diffrent projects as we speak and kaveri has two programmes running K9 & K10 google it

OneIndia Exclusive: DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project

Nov 18: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has decided to wind up the Kaveri engine (GTX-35VS ) programme, signaling an end to a desi dream of equipping its own fighter jet with a home-grown power plant. Sources in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to OneIndia on Tuesday that the DRDO has already moved a file recently seeking the closure of the ambitious engine development project undertaken by Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).
The proposal now needs to get the approval of the Ministry of Finance (MoF) and finally the clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) - a process expected to take at least a year. The Kaveri project, which began in the mid-80s, was aimed at powering the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas. GTRE has spent so far Rs 2,106 crore on the project so far and could only fly the engine for 73 hours on the IL-76 Flying Test Bed (FTB) in Russia. The delay in the project saw DRDO choosing the GE 404 engine for Tejas Mk-1 and GE 414 for Tejas Mk-II.
 
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OneIndia Exclusive: DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project

Nov 18: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has decided to wind up the Kaveri engine (GTX-35VS ) programme, signaling an end to a desi dream of equipping its own fighter jet with a home-grown power plant. Sources in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to OneIndia on Tuesday that the DRDO has already moved a file recently seeking the closure of the ambitious engine development project undertaken by Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).
The proposal now needs to get the approval of the Ministry of Finance (MoF) and finally the clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) - a process expected to take at least a year. The Kaveri project, which began in the mid-80s, was aimed at powering the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas. GTRE has spent so far Rs 2,106 crore on the project so far and could only fly the engine for 73 hours on the IL-76 Flying Test Bed (FTB) in Russia. The delay in the project saw DRDO choosing the GE 404 engine for Tejas Mk-1 and GE 414 for Tejas Mk-II.
dont go by indian prestitutes and there news kaveri programme is still very much alive and on :coffee:
 
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Well his statement doesn't clarifies anything. Useless Post to share in this discussion.
SO do you have any other idea ?????:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:

I agree with Zafar Saab.
The Only Irony being That "Professionals & Military Planners" exist on BOTH Sides ( as they did in 1999 and 1971 )

PS : a Thoughtful Scenario is, can an Ordinary India feel safe with such a statement in context to China ? A BIG BIG BIG > NO. This is no longer 1971.
even without indian interference east pakistan would have fallen, india simply stole the glory
it was a political faliure not the miitary failure:sniper::sniper::sniper::guns::guns::guns::triniti::triniti:
 
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think close air support think enemy concentrations that are advancing unchallenged , think enemy air bases near our borders sending sorties against our defending forces and then read your sentence again.
dont confuse striking with bombing Dehli or Agra. strike is also defensive in nature. Indian mobile SAM sites will pose danger to even our CAP missions and SEAD missions will be needed to neutralise them

I thought about all this and wrote the argument. Here's the current situation, Pakistan due to its air force undergoing modernization and the Army being stretched too thin, KNOWS that if a full scale war starts,it won't last for more than 2-3 weeks in it current scenario. Advancing IBG's will require a response and the Nasar will be used.

What you are missing is, the fact that if India decides to put all of the IAF, or 75% of her air assets in a war against Pakistan, you can NOT win. Its simple a much bigger and overwhelming force and PAF's 150 BVR able jets with 200 or so point defense or limited strike fighters like the Mirages, won't cut it. so the answer is......the Nasar unfortunately due to what it brings to the table.

There is a reason why multiple independent military analysts and organizations call this little tiny missile, the MOST dangerous missile developed in the South Asia. Its purpose is one and its lethality is unchallenged and it'll ruin the area. Results would be a terrible region with half the population gone and NEITHER side being able to "WIN" the war.

If you are fighting with me and I have a small Revolver with six bullets in it, and you have two machine guns with 500 bullets each, the chances are, I'll try to survive and will use my six bullets at you as soon as the conflict starts. This is the most dangerous YET real notion in Indo-Pak's scenario. And that's where your military's at!!!!

Now back to the topic of acquiring new air assets, if Pakistan has 400 4th or 4.5th gen jets, a mix of 250 JFT's (block II or III), about 100-120 F-16's and about 44 J-11D's (or 44 SU-30's or 60 FC-20's) dedicated to the PAF, your total comes to around 440+ jets, all 4th gen, (leave out the J-31 for now) + add SAM coverage to it.

This represents a quantum leap in your defensive capability. The area-denial is the name of the game. With the above Mix, IAF can not use its strike platforms through using the SU-30's, Mirages and Rafale's to provide serious ground support or air superiority.

Dealing with 400+ PAF's multi-role air-crafts', India knows that using 400 jets against Pakistan means losing 150-200 of those. THAT by itself, will push out India's regional power goals by a decade, and will make it look like a "Fake and Weak" military soup-o-powa. The cost-benefit ratio in this case is so high that it would be insane to do this and become very weak in-front of the Chinese, for the next 5-10 years, not to mention economic damage incurred worth billions!!

Now, add the Naval air arm, about 40 JFT's + 40 FC-20's (or 40 J-11D's) and serious SAM capability, you've nicely deterred the IN from doing any serious damage to Pakistan.

Also, for strike platforms, you can use non-nuclear Nasar's and Abdalis and cruise missiles with Cluster and other munitions. But a strong intercepting force would make sure the IAF never get anything close to air superiority or dominance. That will ensure serious losses to the IAF and will prolong the war in Pakistan's favor, forcing both to sit on the table.

India's objectives will always be to do large strikes and damage as much as they can, in a short fight before all world raises hell, so the "RED button" is never pressed. So a larger multi-role and interception capability would provide that. So if in a small conflict like a week long, India couldn't do successful larger scale damage, and still lost over 100 of its jets......what good was the assault to begin with? And the cost SO high??!!!!

Pakistan needs serious multi-role and interception capability, IMO, with between 400-450 advanced 4th or 4.5 gen jets. That would restore the conventional air arm balance and would stop any serious air superiority and all. Ground support can be done through standoff munitions. The world has moved on from traditional warfare.

If this was the 65, I'd be supporting strike platform needs. But with so much standoff and other missile capability, its needed to a much lower level, than interceptors to stop and damage the attacking IAF.
 
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Let CPEC become reality you will get everything you ask for
Heavy fighter are coming too
Jf-17 is a gap filler and to replace old and absolute fighter which are 2-3 generation technology.

What ever the planner or designer of jf-17 planned it has exceeded in everything.

Imagine 250 planes with 4.5 generations of goodies and very cheap and easy to maintain can do to enemy moral when they are spending billions of dollar to replace their old horses.

PAF only going to invest in J-31 when it matures and you will see in 3-5 years in PAF colors

I have seen most of Pakistani interested in heavy weight fighter for anti ship role when if jf-17 specialized configuration can do the job and we are looking 500 to 600 miles radius.

Technology is evolving so fast and a platform like Jf-17 can do wonder when u have complete access to it source code and it is modular .

BVR fired from su 30 mki or F16 or jf 17 is going to do the same job it will be easy for sd10 or amraam to locate su30mki because of it huge rcs
Hi,

where have you been all this time?

@Viper0011. your thoughts please
 
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Hi,

where have you been all this time?

@Viper0011. your thoughts please

He is saying precisely what I've been saying, going back to my first lengthy post. Right now, the money is there. A nation with $ 19 billion in her savings account, for national security purposes, can spend $ 2 billion tomorrow and get stuff on cash. The only thing like I've said many times is, Pakistan is being smart about it. She doesn't want to tick off the WB and the IMF (both of which have a lot of Indian influence).

So if Pakistan can push ahead making economic progress for two more years, by the end of 2017, part of the CPEC would be functional, electric issue would be resolved, the country would be sitting around $ 30 billion cash, so middle finger for the IMF. It can secure loans directly from the manufacturing country for anything due to loan to cash ratio.

This is where both Shariffs are playing great together. Bad Cop (Gen. Raheel) and Good Cop (NS) when it comes to India. Gen. Raheel will issue a strong war-like message to keep Indian in reality check, the next week, NS will send MANGOS to keep their leadership calm. This is perfect aggressive-passive diplomacy and it works. Tells the Indians to remain at bay and at the same time, with a smile, it says "we don't want war, here, have some Mangos". All this is buying time for 2 more years. Then, India won't be issuing these silly statements, knowing there are over 400 4th gen jets to intercept whatever they have to send. Just like the Cold Feet doctrine has seen its end, and just like the "Naval Blockade" has seen its end.

So in the next 2+ years, you'll see a bump in the defense spending. By 2018, the defense budget of Pakistan will be around $ 12-14 billion. And heavies would come, the JFT's will be further advanced to block III.

The poster above makes the SAME point I've made to @MastanKhan , that in the current scenario, the JFT fires a BVR missile from JUST as much distance as the SU-30 and the Mirage 2000 or the F-16 would, in the Indo-Pak scenario. So majority of the work is going to be depending upon missiles. In dog fight, JFT can take on all Indian strike platforms but SU-30 and Rafale (when it comes). The -16 can take on the SU-30 and Rafale. Starting 2018, you'll see orders on the table for more assets and much modern at that. You just have to wait.

Like i said, the Pakistan running on little budget till the 2010,isn't the Pakistan now, sure isn't the Pakistan of 2018. A faster growing economy with a potential to be the top11th economy in years to come, requires a much stronger defense. Now there is money, and only time required for two more years to establish the system, strengthen it and get a few big project live or parts of those, live.

A LOT of new stuff is coming to Pakistan's all three forces. Just watch how it unfolds by 2018!!
 
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He is saying precisely what I've been saying, going back to my first lengthy post. Right now, the money is there. A nation with $ 19 billion in her savings account, for national security purposes, can spend $ 2 billion tomorrow and get stuff on cash. The only thing like I've said many times is, Pakistan is being smart about it. She doesn't want to tick off the WB and the IMF (both of which have a lot of Indian influence).

So the if Pakistan can push ahead making economic progress for two more years, by the end of 2017, part of the CPEC would be functional, electric issue would be resolved, the country would be sitting around $ 30 billion cash, so middle finger for the IMF. It can secure loans directly from the manufacturing country for anything due to loan to cash ratio.

So in the next 2+ years, you'll see a bump in the defense spending. By 2018, the defense budget of Pakistan will be around $ 12-14 billion. And heavies would come, the JFT's will be further advanced to block III.

The poster above makes the SAME point I've made to @MastanKhan , that in current scenario, the JFT fires a BVR missile from JUST as much distance as the SU-30 and the Mirage 2000 or the F-16 would, in the Indo-Pak scenario. So majority of the work is going to be depending upon missiles. In dog fight, JFT can take on all Indian strike platforms but SU-30. The -16 can take on the SU-30 and Rafale. Starting 2018, you'll see orders on the table for more assets. You just have to wait.

Like i said, the Pakistan running on little budget isn't the Pakistan now, sure isn't the Pakistan of 2018. A faster growing economy with a potential to be the top11th economy in years to come, requires a much stronger defense. Now there is money and only time required for two more years. A LOT of new stuff is coming to Pakistan's all three forces. Just watch how it unfolds by 2018!!

Hi,

Thanks for such detailed info.

Do you think it's good idea to let in Chinese navy in Gwadar, as a means of sending signal to the enemy. while the economy kicks in to consolidate our defence. Please shed some light on this
 
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Do you think it's good idea to let in Chinese navy in Gwadar, as a means of sending signal to the enemy. while the economy kicks in to consolidate our defence. Please shed some light on this

You don't have to let them in, they WILL be in. I would expect similar routine to how the US Navy maintains presence around various ports in the Middle East. The Chinese ships will come to "refuel and replenish" so I'd expect at any given time, 2-4 Frigates, DDG's and a couple of Submarines on rotation. They need a place to refuel in this part of the Indian Ocean and to gain access to the "warm waters" and to the Strait of Homez. So Gawader is their only chance right now.....
 
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Hi,

Thanks for such detailed info.

Do you think it's good idea to let in Chinese navy in Gwadar, as a means of sending signal to the enemy. while the economy kicks in to consolidate our defence. Please shed some light on this

No country will do things to benefit your country..
Chinese products going to flood your country, your own industry will be forgotten
China will rule you .. Yes may be as friend..

It better not to give too much of your space.
End result either they are going to dominate you or you are going to betray them.
 
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No country will do things to benefit your country..
Chinese products going to flood your country, your own industry will be forgotten
China will rule you .. Yes may be as friend..

It better not to give too much of your space.
End result either they are going to dominate you or you are going to betray them.
Hi,

I can say only one thing for you, since youre an Indian. Please keep you rants and advice to yourself.

Our dealing with China is far more greater than what a normal Indian can understand !

Its a win-win situation but only as an Indian you are too blinded by the hatred to see that
 
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JF17 is a light combat fighter dude, I don't know how it'd fare in a aerial combat against the big guys..


If JF-17 is the backbone of our airforce, then we have a lot to worry about, seriously .

Don't think we' can take on superior equipped IAF with JF-17's and F-16, currently .
which superior planes of IAF???, the un updated mirages, the older mig29, the mig21, the mig 27, the jaugers, the LCA, ???

the only ones left that is superior to jf-17 is the is their ace aircraft the su 30
and A BIG MAY BE RAFALE and arguably /may be the newest mig29
 
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You don't have to let them in, they WILL be in. I would expect similar routine to how the US Navy maintains presence around various ports in the Middle East. The Chinese ships will come to "refuel and replenish" so I'd expect at any given time, 2-4 Frigates, DDG's and a couple of Submarines on rotation. They need a place to refuel in this part of the Indian Ocean and to gain access to the "warm waters" and to the Strait of Homez. So Gawader is their only chance right now.....

Hi,

I was expecting a bit more detailed response from you taking account into all perspective as you usually do.

Allow me to give you direction on which i was expecting your response and then you can take it from there.

I was saying if the chinese CBG or any other naval platforms comes, will it bring an economic activity to the area ? will it result in more co operation among both navy? or increased exchanges or perhaps even more bold move by joint patrolling?

Overall, How would you best describe the development along the lines of dynamics I have mentioned
 
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