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JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

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Nothing to do with India.

India could not stop AGOSTA sale in the past.

French listen to nobody,s lobby.

RAFAEL will not win MMRCA deal anyways and the frenchies know USA will win this already.

The sole reason is FRANCE weapons are very expensive and they are not offering pakistan SOFT LOANS ie interest free loanss like CHINA did for the 42 JF17 Thunders. AND certainly will not give aid like USA ie grant aid.

Pakistand lack of money has DELAYED this indefinitely.
You are giving indians too much credit
 
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The best thing is TOT from China gracefully and build up of our own industry. If someone asks me; I am not in favor of begging. Its better to live gracefully than to be insulted- 6 billion euros and insulted- should be canceled by Pakistan than French.If China can defend itself with these aircraft, we can too. Also future avionics needs AESA not conventional Radars. BLESSING IN DISGUISE.

If such is a need for Jet Fighters, we can go for 18 F-16 block 52+ option and ask Lockheed for Jet like Super Viper INs from US as they are out of Indian choices already.

Rest should be Indigenous and ToT gracefully

Long Live Pakistan.:pakistan:
 
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And for those Indian members who are trying to emphasize on our economic condition as the main reason, well we had these situations for many years now, but still the French went into negotiations with us on JF-17 avionics and even tried their best to sell us their Marlin Class submarine and even let us test & evaluate their Tiger helicopter for possible sale, knowing we have bad economic situation. Does that rings any bell to why they went ahead even then ??

If you go to your local car dealer and tell him you want to buy a certain model, will he ask you to show the money first, or will he present the car, it's advantages and capabilities first?
Pakistan is not bankrupt of course and can by arms even with loans and that's why foreign countries go on to offer you arms, like the Tiger, or Marlin, because it's about makeing money. But at the end it depends on the budget you have, if you can buy the car/arms that was offered to you.
Just like AgNoStIc MuSliM, or nearly all reports regarding this issue said, the finacial side of the deal wasn't clear (from Pakistans side), which most likely is one of the main reasons of this issue. If that is cleared and PAF can convince that the techs won't be given to China, I am sure France will fix the deal, because it's still on hold only right?

No there is no disappointment because this isnt the end of the world and where did you get this impression that i am blaming India, infact i said the very opposite" India alone could not have pulled this one". Perhaps you need to read a bit more.
You misunderstood me, it was a general statement and I actually agreed with you that there was more behind it than Indian pressure, that's why I pointed those things out.
 
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If you go to your local car dealer and tell him you want to buy a certain model, will he ask you to show the money first, or will he present the car, it's advantages and capabilities first?
Pakistan is not bankrupt of course and can by arms even with loans and that's why foreign countries go on to offer you arms, like the Tiger, or Marlin, because it's about makeing money. But at the end it depends on the budget you have, if you can buy the car/arms that was offered to you.
Just like AgNoStIc MuSliM, or nearly all reports regarding this issue said, the finacial side of the deal wasn't clear (from Pakistans side), which most likely is one of the main reasons of this issue. If that is cleared and PAF can convince that the techs won't be given to China, I am sure France will fix the deal, because it's still on hold only right?

Well, whatever you say Sir, as for me, no need to arguing further.

Let the Indian deals get finalized, then we will see who was right and which was the major cause, the economic side or the Indian influence.

And as for Pakistan buying weapons on loans, we buy on loans from where we can get, from where we can't, we pay in cash, and as said on many occasions to Indian members, kindly see the budget of Pakistan and see what it is and how much money is generated, getting 1B or more out of the budget for important deals such like these ones, is not a big issue when it comes to that.

And as for this deal, said before, the French knew about our economic conditions, but still went ahead, as for your above example, if they had asked for money first, then it wouldn't had come to this stage of the contract where nearly everything was finalized. They would have said, show us the cheque and then we will even talk to you about it.

If the first report when the news about the French deal was surfaced, it said the deal is nearly finalized and would be signed in the first half of the current year, so if they were so much confident about the signing of the deal in the first half of the year, then from where did the money thing came up right 2-3 months before the signing deadline. These negotiations much have been going on for more then a year atleast, then where was money then.

And the order figure was for 100 fighters, and we all know when the order would be placed, it would be not for all 100, rather in batches of either 25 or 50, and the payment would also be in that manner.

We made a deal with US for 36 F-16s, in the manner of 18 first and with an option to order another 18 if required. Did we pay for all the 36 F-16s, Nops. We payed for the 18 first and then if we order the other 18, we will pay more.

Similarly, if we negotiate a deal of avionics & weapons for 100 JF-17s, we can order for 50 fighters first and pay for them and once the first 50 ordered gets fulfilled, then we order and pay for the next 50, in such manner the deal doesn't becomes of Billions rather it reduces to half, a payment which we can do easily.

But as said, let the Indian deals get finalized, then we will see who is right and who isn't, till then we can all speculate on the reasons, but the facts don't support the economic factor more.
 
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Restriction and embargo always built the nation. Not to worry. French will be back, they know the needy players. India has option to buy, Pakistan has limited option to buy. The day India announce it 126 plane decision, same moment people will see sudden change on military bargaining tables of Pak-French and rest.
 
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Dont be short sighted.

1. MMRCA IS WORTH $35 BILLION.
2. INDIA WILL SPEND $200 BILLION IN NEXT DECADE
3. India Will spend $150 Billion Plus on Nuclear Sector and Energy

How can dollar lover french risk $400 Billion.
 
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India's Dirty Secret:


Flashing these large dollar numbers WITHOUT HAVING THE CASH.

There's another reason the Goshkov AC is being delayed, and it is due to lack of payments upfront. Just like how Bharat made all that noise and signed those deals with Singapore for weapons, but canceled it last minute because it didn't want to pay the money. How many years has the 126 aircraft, the "billion dollarzzzz" Sub offer, the MRCA, etc been tendered? ANSWER: Decades+:oops:

Groshkov deal will complete 0n 2012 or 2014 when refit is completed,singapore weapon deal because company is blacklisted,126 aircraft evaluation is going on...India purchased 50 billion $ worth weapons in last decade.we never purchase anything by easy payment loan or foreign military aid,but u r logic is great you can beat many i new generation conspiracy theorists
 
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No need to go off topic by getting other topics into the discussion.

Keep the discussion as per he topic.
 
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The term conspiracy theorists is being use so loosely that it now means something totally different than what it used to. :rofl:
 
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Pak arms deal held up under India pressure

New Delhi: The France government held up its 1.6 billion dollars sale of arms to Pakistan, reportedly under pressure from India.
The military hardware was to be used for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft. The sale of electronics and missiles, under the first part of a six billion euro deal, was signed with Islamabad.

Paris is said to be concerned over whether Pakistan would be able to pay-off the huge deal amount or not. And, also worried over the safety of the sophisticated technology.
However, experts are not willing to accept India would be able to exert pressue on France to hold the deal for long.
"I don't really know how much pressure India can really exert on France because in the past we have seen that America has tremendous influence on their policies," said Hamid Gul, former DG of ISI.
"Americans have supplied us already. They have committed to supply us 18 F-16 aircraft. Any aircraft that France can put out it can be outmatched by what the Americans can do."
"We have very good relations in this field with China and we have developed JF-17 Thunder. We don't see any immediate possibility of war. Therefore we have time in which we can develop technology," he added.
france-arms-deal_630.jpg
Pak arms deal held up under India pressure
 
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Indian pressure behind held-up French arms sale to Pak?

Paris: France's plan to sell EUR 1.2 billion (USD 1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said this week.

Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a EUR 6 billion contract -- under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances.

"It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side," the source said, without giving further details. "For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it."

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.

France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.

In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India's Mirage 2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India.

Le Monde said talks over that upgrade also played a role in the decision.

Indian pressure behind held-up French arms sale to Pakistan?
 
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JF-17 French Avionics Deal held up only means that Pakistan rejected the Merlin submarines and is now going for the U-214 subs. This also means that JF-17 is now likely to be equipped with a better radar and perhaps more cost.
 
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JF-17 French Avionics Deal held up only means that Pakistan rejected the Merlin submarines and is now going for the U-214 subs. This also means that JF-17 is now likely to be equipped with a better radar and perhaps more cost.

Where did you get this idea from, its all wishful thinking.
If at all pakistan is rejecting Merlin submarines dones not automatically mean that pakistan will have U-214 subs from germany. There is also enough pressure on germany to abandon the sale of subs to pak.
Germany has a huge opportunity to supply 6 U-214's to Indian navy.

How come suddenly rejecting french avionics to jf-17 will be able to get better avionics any concrete proof, if you are saying having chinese avionics that will be better than french one, I must say you are being overtly patriotic and wishful thinking.
 
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It seems that US is not the only one who is gunning for us "Muslims" and in particular us 'Pakistanis!!!!"

Maybe we need to do some real think through to find a solution for "Imtiazi Saluk."
 
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To the Indian members: Where is the proof that French have put the deal on hold under Indian pressure ? Can anyone give a substantative proof ?
 
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