JF-17/FC-1 Thunder Fighter

[Neo]

Maybe,

If you think Russia is going to leave 20 Billion worth of contracts on the process and 15 billion already in place, for 150 Engines.

India will have to spend twice or maybe thrice as much if she goes shopping in west instead of Russia. You may be growing, you still can't afford to spend that kind of amount without hurting your economy.
Russian technology is still way cheaper and comes with unlimited access with no string attached. Same can't be said about western suppliers.

If your government sanctions Russians for delivering RD-93 to Pakistan via China, it would be mistake of the century. Even the biggest idiot in your government knows that.

But you're free to believe whatever you want my friend! :thumbsup:

 

[Owais]

# The radar is a competition bw lab 14 and 607 right now, although European radar may get into the competition in the future.

http://china-pla.blogspot.com/

what are names and specifications these radars?? are these downgraded versions of what PLAAF is using in J-10?

 

[xulei]

A website said that the Chengdu had given 16 JF-17 to Pakistan before Jan-23,who can approve this message? Thanks

 

[Neo]

Impossible, probably just a rumor. As far as I know only six prototypes have been built sofar and Pakistan will get prototype nr, 4 next month. Seven more aircrafts will follow by the end of the year.

 

[karpov]

23rd March parade is scheduled to be held on at Sports Complex under most tight security, general public would not be allowed to attend, even armed forces personal would find it very difficult to obatain entry.

 

[melb4aust]

23rd March parade is scheduled to be held on at Sports Complex under most tight security, general public would not be allowed to attend, even armed forces personal would find it very difficult to obatain entry.

What

what kind of parade is it going to be then.....if there's no public, or probably they will telecast it on the TV, from the local channel for public.

Any way its good that its happening.......

 

[blain2]

Maybe,

If you think Russia is going to leave 20 Billion worth of contracts on the process and 15 billion already in place, for 150 Engines.

Well its not India only that can play hardball. Keep in mind that nobody will sell you an aircraft as cheaply as the Russians. Try going all western for 126 (and sometimes stated to be almost 200) aircraft and you very easily see the spiralling costs and the unwillingness for complete ToT to India. So Russia has quite a bit of leverage over India as well. If you give the 20Billion worth of contracts to the exclusion of the Russians, expect them to give you guys the index finger on timely delivery of spares, cutting edge technology etc. etc. etc.

Again JF-17 engines is not an issue!

Ditto on NEO's post above. Read it after I wrote this post.

 

[Adux]

Well its not India only that can play hardball. Keep in mind that nobody will sell you an aircraft as cheaply as the Russians. Try going all western for 126 (and sometimes stated to be almost 200) aircraft and you very easily see the spiralling costs and the unwillingness for complete ToT to India. So Russia has quite a bit of leverage over India as well. If you give the 20Billion worth of contracts to the exclusion of the Russians, expect them to give you guys the index finger on timely delivery of spares, cutting edge technology etc. etc. etc.

Again JF-17 engines is not an issue!

Bull crap,India Doesnt havent to play hard ball. Chechnya and Afghanistan has pakistani hand in it to some extent. Russians arent hanging on to the Indians just for 126 Aircrafts, there are $11 billion dollars of military requirement every single year. 150 measely engines arent going to change that. Sorry I dont buy your arguement.

 

[Adux]

India will have to spend twice or maybe thrice as much if she goes shopping in west instead of Russia. You may be growing, you still can't afford to spend that kind of amount without hurting your economy.
Russian technology is still way cheaper and comes with unlimited access with no string attached. Same can't be said about western suppliers.

If your government sanctions Russians for delivering RD-93 to Pakistan via China, it would be mistake of the century. Even the biggest idiot in your government knows that.

But you're free to believe whatever you want my friend! :thumbsup:

Sorry your point is,

If you think Indians are idiots and spinless, sorry. Russians wont create any bad blood with the Indians, when it comes to the pakistani engine issue, It is too small for them to take the risk, Western suppliers are ready to freaking give us easy credit, Just to enter the market.... And Yes we can afford Western Equipment

 

[Bull]

The whole issue is that pakistan is considering the dilemma Russia has with China as a dilemma Russia has with Pakistan.Russia can keep China happy even by ignoring pakistan.
For India and China( worlds largest and second largest weapons purchaser) Russia is the reliable partner and Russia knows that. Russia wouldnt want to lose either of them for a NATO ally.

Russia can delay the project by helping them develop a WS-13 or a RD-93 copy.

As many reports have shown JF-17 is more of a export oriented product for the third world economies and PLAF is not keen to induct them in numbers other than for showcasing to foriegn buyers.

So what i feel is that, India would ask/request the Russians (knowing the dilemma of Russians) to delay the supply of RD-93 till India gets hand to the good number of MKIs and possible Mig 35s. Once IAF gets 140 odd MKIs and another 60 odd Mig 35s by 2009 , Russia would go ahead with its RD-93 supply.

 

[Adux]

The whole issue is that pakistan is considering the dilemma Russia has with China as a dilemma Russia has with Pakistan.Russia can keep China happy even by ignoring pakistan.
For India and China( worlds largest and second largest weapons purchaser) Russia is the reliable partner and Russia knows that. Russia wouldnt want to lose either of them for a NATO ally.

Russia can delay the project by helping them develop a WS-13 or a RD-93 copy.

As many reports have shown JF-17 is more of a export oriented product for the third world economies and PLAF is not keen to induct them in numbers other than for showcasing to foriegn buyers.

So what i feel is that, India would ask/request the Russians (knowing the dilemma of Russians) to delay the supply of RD-93 till India gets hand to the good number of MKIs and possible Mig 35s. Once IAF gets 140 odd MKIs and another 60 odd Mig 35s by 2009 , Russia would go ahead with its RD-93 supply.

Seriously dont agree with it, The commies will get eaten along with russian lobby over here. Ws-13A will be the Russian RD-93, if it all russians do it,, it will be in the form of WS-13, Pro-American lobby as well as BJP will get powerful, both russia as well as congress party wont want that situation

 

[Bull]

Seriously dont agree with it, The commies will get eaten along with russian lobby over here. Ws-13A will be the Russian RD-93, if it all russians do it,, it will be in the form of WS-13, Pro-American lobby as well as BJP will get powerful, both russia as well as congress party wont want that situation

Well thats another issue, god knows.

But i feel ultimatly they would allow it, but only after India gets enough teeth. Chinas planning earn some quick bycks with these fighters, there is no stopping China if they begin with something.

 

[blain2]

Bull crap,India Doesnt havent to play hard ball. Chechnya and Afghanistan has pakistani hand in it to some extent. Russians arent hanging on to the Indians just for 126 Aircrafts, there are $11 billion dollars of military requirement every single year. 150 measely engines arent going to change that. Sorry I dont buy your arguement.

Chechnya and Pakistan? Now lets not pull crap out of where the sun dont shine please.

Over Afghanistan, Pakistan and Russia have differing views but its not a zero sum game. Secondly the engine issue pertains more to Sino-Russian relations than Pak-Russian.

Let me just put it this way, you guys can take solace in the words of the whomsoever spoke out, however the fact of the matter remains that PAF will be getting the JF-17s on time. If the JF-17 program was to get pushed out due to engine issues, then PAF would be seen scampering right now placing stop-gap orders right now in the form of PGs etc. Its not because the Russian engines are a non-issue (either by virtue of WS-13 or lack of impact of a statement coming out of some Russian source...pick either one knowing the JF-17 program is on track).

 

[blain2]

Well thats another issue, god knows.

But i feel ultimatly they would allow it, but only after India gets enough teeth. Chinas planning earn some quick bycks with these fighters, there is no stopping China if they begin with something.

So what you have written is pretty much your own gut feel and not really grounded in facts. India getting enough MKIs from Russia and the supply of RD-93 are fairly illogical connections. It would take India at least three more (at the very best) years to even get close to the 140 number. Do you really think that China and PAF would be sitting on their asses waiting for the retarded Russians to allow export of an obsolete engine by that time? Think again!

Overall just the fact that this contention has surfaced has been a good thing as from most reports appearing in the open domain, the Chinese are putting a lot more effort on the WS-13. That is a good news from a leverage standpoint as what it does is that it not only eats into the Russian Mig-29 market but also leaves the order of 150 RD-93 enginese in the middle of nowhere.

As many reports have shown JF-17 is more of a export oriented product for the third world economies and PLAF is not keen to induct them in numbers other than for showcasing to foriegn buyers.

Really?? And you think most of the Mig-29s are being bought by first world countries? JF-17 depending on how its modified and glassed can easily run circles around the Mig-29 on the export market. For some reasons to beat down on the JF-17s, you Indians like to use the same PLAAF argument all the time. well let me run something by you. What replaces the 4000 odd J-6/7s in the PLAAF inventory?? Do you think that in one fell swoop the Chinese will replace 3 of these older aircraft with one of their J-10s? Any ideas on how much it will cost to do so at a price of $30 million / J-10? Why are the Chinese even working on an FC-1? Why not put all of the resources into the JF-17 track only? So think about the program before you post something to run it down. PLAAF will buy at least the same # of FC-1/JF-17s as the PAF and then they will buy some more. Chinese have also realized that there is quite a bit of potential in this aircraft which is cheap per airframe but has immense possibilities in terms of upgrades of avionics and armaments.

 

[Adux]

Blain,

I havent read your post, franly we are going in circles, I dont know about military equipments as much as you do. Politics, well lets just that is in my blood, Russians delivering Rd-93 engines to Pakistan, in its current form, is playing directly into the pro-american lobby in our place.

Its not about Indian- Russian hardball, it is the hardball of the lobby's..American Lobby wants to crack in the Indian Market, World's largest I might add. Russian lobby looses ground support cuz of the engine deal, American lobby will have more hold