JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Chak Bamu]

No, please not again at least not here.... if you want you can start a new thread but let's stay on topic, which is "Block 03 news and discussion" and in the same way, there si NO reason to constantly post any random PLAAF J-10C photo you find, only since it is nice!

Its just a light-hearted joke Deino, while we await more news about Block-III induction. Nobody is going to start a Block-IV discussion here.

 

[GripenNG]

This thread brought me to this forum. In the western hemisphere, we never imagined Pakistan would come up with a pit bull like this. It is a very substantial achievement no doubt. Congratulations!

Looking forward to it achieving some noteworthy milestones.

 

[Chak Bamu]

This thread brought me to this forum. In the western hemisphere, we never imagined Pakistan would come up with a pit bull like this. It is a very substantial achievement no doubt. Congratulations!

Looking forward to it achieving some noteworthy milestones.

Welcome to the forum @GripenNG

We hope for good contribution from your side for an enriched discussion.

 

[shayyman]

JF-17 Block 3 has solid market potential.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

Lets discuss about block-lV
View attachment 813719

Hazaron khuaishen aisee.. ufff

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

Wow no pylons for the missiles. How did you manage to get the break through in technology to levitate missiles under an aircraft?

Have you heard of MAM, Missile Absorption Materials ?

 

[atya]

ISLAMABAD -- The Pakistan Air Force expects next month to add 50 JF-17 fighter jets built jointly with China to replace old aircraft and upgrade capability against India's missile defense system.

According to Pakistani defense sources, a rollout ceremony was held in December and the new JF-17 jets will fly at the national day military parade on March 23.

JF-17 production began in the late 1980s in a $500 million China-Pakistan joint venture. More than 100 of the aircraft have been commissioned into the PAF since 2007, of which 26 were added in 2020 as part of a so-called second block. The latest 50 are the third block.

The airframes, front fuselage, wings and vertical stabilizer were built by state-owned Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Other components were supplied by China's Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, a subsidiary of the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China. All assembly takes place in Pakistan.

The latest jets have improved "high off-boresight" capability, which means they do not have to be pointing in any specific direction to target an adversary. The aircraft can fire from whatever position, and its missiles will adjust thrust, speed and trajectory to hit targets. This greatly enhances PAF operability.

Light composite materials enable the jets to carry five beyond-visual-range missiles, a significant improvement on earlier aircraft. Data fusion technology has also been incorporated to improve communications and decision-making times.

Taimur Fahad Khan, a research associate with the Center for Strategic Perspectives at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, said the multirole fighters will improve PAF capability against India's new S-400 air defense system.

"S-400 has been found to be largely ineffective against some of the advanced, multirole fighter jets with near stealth features," Khan told Nikkei Asia. "These jets possess capabilities that make them the best option to counter S-400."

"JF-17 block three fighters are near stealth with advanced software and radar capabilities that can be used to deceive the tracking system of S-400 missiles, among other systems," he said.

According to Khan, the new fighters can detect enemy jets at long distances and launch attacks preemptively. The liquid-cooled airborne fire control radar system improves detection of adversaries by 65%, and can target an enemy aircraft from 170 kilometers.

Many observers believe the new jets demonstrate Pakistan's growing self-reliance in weaponry.

"Pakistan Armed Forces have reasonable capability against any aggression," Tanveer Sultan Awan, chairman of Hajvairy Technologies, an aviation company, told Nikkei. "The Pakistan Air Force, in particular, is working in the direction of self-reliance, and production of the JF-17 is a demonstration of this policy," Awan said.

Apart from bolstering the PAF, the JF-17 project has export potential. "It has helped Pakistan build its own capacity for defense production and create a military-industrial complex -- something its archrival India still lacks despite large military resources," said Khan.

Chinese assistance has also enabled Pakistan to export military hardware to other countries. Myanmar and Nigeria have already procured JF-17s, and Argentina has recently expressed interest in the new generation. Argentina's ambassador to China visited China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation in Beijing in January, and reportedly discussed a possible order.

"Chinese military hardware is now in the league of hi-tech Western equipment," said Awan, himself a former officer in the PAF. "In years to come, the dependence of Pakistan on Chinese military hardware will be significantly more than on Western equipment."

Despite the benefits of Chinese assistance, Pakistan remains concerned about the range of weapon procurement options available to India.

Michael Kugelman, deputy director of the Asia program at Wilson Center, says that Islamabad will continue to look at India's acquisitions with concern -- not just because of French Dassault Rafale jets.

"India has the luxury of a diversified group of arms suppliers from Russia and Israel to the U.S. This is why Pakistan won't be prepared to rest easy anytime soon," he told Nikkei.

Kugelman said that while the jets are important, and serve a major need for Pakistan, Islamabad is still not at the point where it views China as a replacement to the U.S. as a security provider.

"It would be wrong to assume that Pakistan is prepared to shut the door on the U.S. simply because it is getting these jets and other important defense products from China," he said. "If Pakistan were presented with an opportunity to acquire U.S. arms, it certainly wouldn't dismiss it."

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Pakistan-to-boost-air-strike-power-with-50-enhanced-fighter-jets

 

[Chak Bamu]

ISLAMABAD -- The Pakistan Air Force expects next month to add 50 JF-17 fighter jets built jointly with China to replace old aircraft and upgrade capability against India's missile defense system.

According to Pakistani defense sources, a rollout ceremony was held in December and the new JF-17 jets will fly at the national day military parade on March 23.

JF-17 production began in the late 1980s in a $500 million China-Pakistan joint venture. More than 100 of the aircraft have been commissioned into the PAF since 2007, of which 26 were added in 2020 as part of a so-called second block. The latest 50 are the third block.

The airframes, front fuselage, wings and vertical stabilizer were built by state-owned Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Other components were supplied by China's Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, a subsidiary of the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China. All assembly takes place in Pakistan.

The latest jets have improved "high off-boresight" capability, which means they do not have to be pointing in any specific direction to target an adversary. The aircraft can fire from whatever position, and its missiles will adjust thrust, speed and trajectory to hit targets. This greatly enhances PAF operability.

Light composite materials enable the jets to carry five beyond-visual-range missiles, a significant improvement on earlier aircraft. Data fusion technology has also been incorporated to improve communications and decision-making times.

Taimur Fahad Khan, a research associate with the Center for Strategic Perspectives at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, said the multirole fighters will improve PAF capability against India's new S-400 air defense system.

"S-400 has been found to be largely ineffective against some of the advanced, multirole fighter jets with near stealth features," Khan told Nikkei Asia. "These jets possess capabilities that make them the best option to counter S-400."

"JF-17 block three fighters are near stealth with advanced software and radar capabilities that can be used to deceive the tracking system of S-400 missiles, among other systems," he said.

According to Khan, the new fighters can detect enemy jets at long distances and launch attacks preemptively. The liquid-cooled airborne fire control radar system improves detection of adversaries by 65%, and can target an enemy aircraft from 170 kilometers.

Many observers believe the new jets demonstrate Pakistan's growing self-reliance in weaponry.

"Pakistan Armed Forces have reasonable capability against any aggression," Tanveer Sultan Awan, chairman of Hajvairy Technologies, an aviation company, told Nikkei. "The Pakistan Air Force, in particular, is working in the direction of self-reliance, and production of the JF-17 is a demonstration of this policy," Awan said.

Apart from bolstering the PAF, the JF-17 project has export potential. "It has helped Pakistan build its own capacity for defense production and create a military-industrial complex -- something its archrival India still lacks despite large military resources," said Khan.

Chinese assistance has also enabled Pakistan to export military hardware to other countries. Myanmar and Nigeria have already procured JF-17s, and Argentina has recently expressed interest in the new generation. Argentina's ambassador to China visited China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation in Beijing in January, and reportedly discussed a possible order.

"Chinese military hardware is now in the league of hi-tech Western equipment," said Awan, himself a former officer in the PAF. "In years to come, the dependence of Pakistan on Chinese military hardware will be significantly more than on Western equipment."

Despite the benefits of Chinese assistance, Pakistan remains concerned about the range of weapon procurement options available to India.

Michael Kugelman, deputy director of the Asia program at Wilson Center, says that Islamabad will continue to look at India's acquisitions with concern -- not just because of French Dassault Rafale jets.

"India has the luxury of a diversified group of arms suppliers from Russia and Israel to the U.S. This is why Pakistan won't be prepared to rest easy anytime soon," he told Nikkei.

Kugelman said that while the jets are important, and serve a major need for Pakistan, Islamabad is still not at the point where it views China as a replacement to the U.S. as a security provider.

"It would be wrong to assume that Pakistan is prepared to shut the door on the U.S. simply because it is getting these jets and other important defense products from China," he said. "If Pakistan were presented with an opportunity to acquire U.S. arms, it certainly wouldn't dismiss it."

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Pakistan-to-boost-air-strike-power-with-50-enhanced-fighter-jets

50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya

 

[Polestar 2]

50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya

Asia nikkei are notorious for plenty of misleading article especially anything about China or their allies.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is what we know at present. There are a lot of bits of unknown information like foreign orders, local demand, upgradability of block 2, equipment and engine change/modification. So a lot more is unknown than known. What can be said and will probably be confirmed by the end of the year is how happy PAF is with the block 3 and what if any modifications are required and whether they cqn be done on this platform or need more tinkering which means more time and therefore a new block. If they are extremely happy they will possibly order 50 more and then look towards block 4. If they are not then depending on what needs replacing they might cap production at 50 units and go for block 4.
This remains my assessment and should be taken as such.
A

Just a thought, considering funds are limited, and the current plan calls for inducting 30 Block 3s and 25 J-10, the total number of F-16, J-10, and JF-17 would number somewhere around ~255.

Also, there is a desire to upgrade the current JF-17s to the Block 3 standard.

If all this is a given, has there been any consideration into transferring many of the sub-systems from the current 120+ JF-17 into Mirage airframes?, to bring the number of BVR capable aircraft up to nearly 375 or the full 20 fighter squadrons the Air Force wants to operate, all at the lowest cost. these Mirages could continue to primarily serve the strike role, but have the capability to hold their own and protect themselves. Obviously, it’s a stop-gap until a new aircraft allows them to retire, but I figure it’s a cost effective stop gap the PAF should consider.

Granted, It’s a lot of work for the engineers at Kamra all at one time, what with the Block 3 build, export customers, upgrading the current JF-17 to Block 3 standard and supporting the Air Force to operationalize the J-10.

 

[Polestar 2]

Just a thought, considering funds are limited, and the current plan calls for inducting 30 Block 3s and 25 J-10, the total number of F-16, J-10, and JF-17 would number somewhere around ~255.

Also, there is a desire to upgrade the current JF-17s to the Block 3 standard.

If all this is a given, has there been any consideration into transferring many of the sub-systems from the current 120+ JF-17 into Mirage airframes?, to bring the number of BVR capable aircraft up to nearly 375 or the full 20 fighter squadrons the Air Force wants to operate.

Mirage III airframe are too old, not worth for the upgraded. Money and time will be wasted if such venture. It is better to devour more time and effort to produced more JF-17 to replace Mirage III.

 

[FuturePAF]

Mirage III airframe are too old, not worth for the upgraded. Money and time will be wasted if such venture. It is better to devour more time and effort to produced more JF-17 to replace Mirage III.

How much money would it cost to take old sub-systems (already planned to be replaced) and put them in an airframe the Air Force wants to continue to use for a few more years.

The cost would be in time and integration.

I’m just saying this is a stop-gap until enough new planes are inducted to fill the 20 squadron requirement; or about 360 fighters. Even with the 25 J-10s and 30 Block 3 JF-17s, we are about a 100 planes short. It would take almost a decade to make enough JF-17s to replace the Mirages. In that decade, let’s use up the old JF-17 electronics and give the Mirages the capabilities to deal with modern threats more effectively.

 

[Polestar 2]

How much money would it cost to take old sub-systems (already planned to be replaced) and put them in an airframe the Air Force wants to continue to use for a few more years.

The cost would be in time and integration.

I’m just saying this is a stop-gap until enough new planes are inducted to fill the 20 squadron requirement; or about 360 fighters. Even with the 25 J-10s and 30 Block 3 JF-17s, we are about a 100 planes short. It would take almost a decade to make enough JF-17s to replace the Mirages. In that decade, let’s use up the old JF-17 electronics and give the Mirages the capabilities to deal with modern threats more effectively.

It can be more expensive and time consuming than imagine. Mirage III airframe are not well know to be generous, therefore the selection can be limited. Plus, it belongs to very previous generation with a lot of modern avionic and system not designed for its airframe. Integration can be very challenging and final outcome might not even be as good as expected. There are plenty of testing require before it can finally be put into service after the upgraded. By the time , the acceptance is completed. The money and timeframe might be even more effective to put 50 JF-17 III into service.

My conclusion , its not worth the money and time. As for the production, it will depend on its foreign sales. The more order it put, AVIC CAC or Guizhou might join in the production and significantly increase the efficiency of production for JF-17.

 

[Riz]

50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya

euroasiatime published this story two days ago by and the author was an indian , heading of this story was ‘’ Pakistan is going to add 50 JF-17 block 3 next month aim to counter indias powerful S-400 system

 

[HRK]

50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya

Source is Asia nikkei you can expect these sorts of misleading and wrong inputs either by design or by mistakes, but they are known for this.