JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Nomad40]

I owe a debt of gratitude to "Mushtaq" for teaching me how to fly

the sweeds call em mushen-thaks, super cute plane.

 

[kursed]

@JamD & @kursed

Let's speculate a bit more about PL-15, J-10 and Block-3.

The Chinese and Pakistani did their training exercises in Bholari. What happened to 19th Squadron Sherdil F-16's? They silently disappeared from bholari while chinese were there with their most advanced aerial assets and even americans didn't object which means F-16 squadron has been realocated from bholari airbase

The Chinese would have been resistant to share PL-15 because they dont want the Americans anywhere near PL-15. They'd have wanted a dedicated airbase where JF-17 block 3 critical chinese tech and PL-15 can be stored exclusively and away from Americans. Pakistan for this very reason specifically chose Bholari airbase to host Chinese so that they can come and inspect it personally and let PAF store they Chinese Tier 1 BVR missile

F-16s were temporarily relocated from Bholari until the end of Shaheen IX. And you’re right on your take.

 

[Marker]

Talk about self-respect.

I wish we as Pakistani nation could talk about self respect, but it is very unfortunate that our past and present leadership let our Pakistan down by syphoning the hard earned money out of the country in their foreign vaults. They brought Pakistan's economy to a cross road where one last wrong turn means total bankruptcy.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

We waited 5 years to upgrade JF-17 BLK3 and our mission was to bring the jet to indian Rafael standard, PL-15 is like Game changer in the region that can keep indian Rafaels on its bay.. To be honest do u think new AESA would save us from Rafaels??

hang on brother I thought you were comparing it to Tejas.
PL15 and Rafales came in the scene much later.
JF17 program is independent of Chinese weapons and Indian future acquisitions.

it is aimed with building a workhorse that has the synergy and comparability with all PAF assets. PAF is not plane specific but solution specific and will adapt as threats change and enemy has new capabilities.
JF17 block 3 will see changes as new threats arise Rafales and beyond.
for Rafales we need a medium weight J10C F16 Class fighter and that point takes us to PAF new jet thread.

 

[Kingslayerr]

I dont understand why people take jf17 block 3 as a rafale counter which it certainly is not. Its a really great fighter best in its own class which is lightweight. But it is no counter to rafale and shouldn't ne pitched as one. Yes all that pl15 and aesa is good but lets be realistic its great to counter mig29s, mirrage2000s, bison and su30mki and will surely score many kills in this category but not to rafale which is a beautiful yet lethal jet. In my opinion PAF knows that rafale is a threat and probably dont take jf17 block 3 as a rafale counter. PAF knows a handful block52s aren't enough. So they might be looking at a possible acquisition.
2. To counter rafale we need a different fighter. F-16s are good but we ain't gonna get them. The best possible option is j-10CE. Now idk how good j-10C is but looks like only way to go or wait till project azm matures.

 

[Sunny4pak]

Adding to that, we do have a new chin mounting hard point which seems to be specifically created for POD and that might include the IRST as well. The payload may differ as per mission profile and if there is a need for so & so POD. Just saying.

I think, for IRST Or Targeting Pod PAF is going to have an external option (chin mounted) as you said Sir.

 

[Marker]

I dont understand why people take jf17 block 3 as a rafale counter which it certainly is not. Its a really great fighter best in its own class which is lightweight. But it is no counter to rafale and shouldn't ne pitched as one. Yes all that pl15 and aesa is good but lets be realistic its great to counter mig29s, mirrage2000s, bison and su30mki and will surely score many kills in this category but not to rafale which is a beautiful yet lethal jet. In my opinion PAF knows that rafale is a threat and probably dont take jf17 block 3 as a rafale counter. PAF knows a handful block52s aren't enough. So they might be looking at a possible acquisition.
2. To counter rafale we need a different fighter. F-16s are good but we ain't gonna get them. The best possible option is j-10CE. Now idk how good j-10C is but looks like only way to go or wait till project azm matures.

Why we should need a new 4+ gen heavyweight or mediumweight fighter aircraft?

Why JF-17 Block 3 cannot be pitched against Rafale or any 4+ gen aircraft?

Why a lightweight fighter cannot take down a heavyweight fighter aircraft?

The advantages which Rafale has over JF-17 Block 3, are its payload capacity and max combat range.

However all other parameters, onboard weaponry and EW systems can be matched with JF-17 Block 3.

Capabilities of first detection, potency of BVR AAMS and pilot's response will determine the outcome of this battle between Rafale and JF-17 Block 3.

In fact, if the capabilities and upgradation mentioned in Shahid Raza's tweet regarding JF-17 Block 3 are correct, then I can safely bet that it can be pitched against any world class fighter jet with definite positive outcome if flown by an experienced PAF pilot.

 

[CHI RULES]

Jamming platforms have a relatively narrow direction they can aim their transmitters against an enemy radar or electronics. The goal is to close the gap, as well as protect the platforms from pop-up SAM threats. The extra 10% may only be 10% extra, but it’s still gives more options to the pilots.

a plane with two receiver pods on the wing tips along with three jamming pods (high band, mid-band, and low-band) can disrupts in all kinds of ways, I.e. breaking datalinks, comms, low frequency radar on the low band.

The Block 72’s modern radar with the right techniques could still operate in that environment and while the C7’s extra range is not absolutely necessary, it does limit the risk of getting shot down by the enemy.

Range for the c7 may only be 10% longer, but perhaps the NEZ maybe more than 10%, and that could be a crucial edge.

Sometimes wins are made by small margins

Dear member two points required some clarification.

1- How much growler like platform shall be useful to jam or even decrease targeting range of AESA radar of Rafale.

2- Considering F16 limited role in PAF which is mainly Air defense the ground attack missiles are not provided/released to PAF so at least F16s cannot replace Mirages in ground attack role.(Even JF17 has relatively shorter combat radius)

 

[Trango Towers]

We need to replace 100+ planes in next 5 years, How many Block3 are we building in next 3 years?

Year 2021 =
Year 2022 =
Year

Dear member two points required some clarification.

1- How much growler like platform shall be useful to jam or even decrease targeting range of AESA radar of Rafale.

2- Considering F16 limited role in PAF which is mainly Air defense the ground attack missiles are not provided/released to PAF so at least F16s cannot replace Mirages in ground attack role.(Even JF17 has relatively shorter combat radius)

1965 was stargighter provided aircober whilst sabres took on the enemy. Likewise if f16s can be ridden by pure dogfighter pilots who will defend airspace that frees up everyone else to do the hard fighting. PaF will be happy with that. F16 psychologically kills Indian pilots. In combat they will see what jf17 is. Block 3 will bitch slap their wives whilst the husbands watch

 

[GriffinsRule]

Well i doubt wr are at full production even at kamara..we have produced 24 in yr before so why we at 12/yr?

Budget ...

 

[CHI RULES]

Why we should need a new 4+ gen heavyweight or mediumweight fighger aircraft?

Why JF-17 Block 3 cannot be pitched against Rafale or any 4+ gen aircraft?

Why a lightweight fighter cannot take down a heavyweight fighter aircraft?

The advantages which Rafale has over JF-17 Block 3, are its payload capacity and max combat range.

However all other parameters, onboard weaponry and EW systems can be matched with JF-17 Block 3.

Capabilities of first detection, potency of BVR AAMS and pilot's response will determine the outcome of this battle between Rafale and JF-17 Block 3.

In fact, if the capabilities and upgradation mentioned in Shahid Raza's tweet regarding JF-17 Block 3 are correct, then I can safely bet that it can be pitched against any world class fighter jet with definite positive outcome if flown by an experienced PAF pilot.

One should look for capabilities of both Rafale and JF17 block 3 for considering them serious rivals. One should check or clarify following points.

1- PL-15 Vs EW suit/Spectra of Rafale
2- RCS of JF17 block 3 Vs Rafale RCS.
3 Defensive capabilities of JF17 vs Meteor.

Considering the general views about difficulties to jam AESA radar perhaps role of electronic warfare assets shall be limited unlike Indo Pak latest skirmish.

 

[Trango Towers]

One should look for capabilities of both Rafale and JF17 block 3 for considering them serious rivals. One should check or clarify following points.

1- PL-15 Vs EW suit/Spectra of Rafale
2- RCS of JF17 block 3 Vs Rafale RCS.
3 Defensive capabilities of JF17 vs Meteor.

Considering the general views about difficulties to jam AESA radar perhaps role of electronic warfare assets shall be limited unlike Indo Pak latest skirmish.

Pakistan will find a ways...

Our f6 were used to shoot down f15s in exercises. So jf17 is way better placed to take on the Rafael

 

[Kingslayerr]

Why we should need a new 4+ gen heavyweight or mediumweight fighger aircraft?

Why JF-17 Block 3 cannot be pitched against Rafale or any 4+ gen aircraft?

Why a lightweight fighter cannot take down a heavyweight fighter aircraft?

The advantages which Rafale has over JF-17 Block 3, are its payload capacity and max combat range.

However all other parameters, onboard weaponry and EW systems can be matched with JF-17 Block 3.

Capabilities of first detection, potency of BVR AAMS and pilot's response will determine the outcome of this battle between Rafale and JF-17 Block 3.

In fact, if the capabilities and upgradation mentioned in Shahid Raza's tweet regarding JF-17 Block 3 are correct, then I can safely bet that it can be pitched against any world class fighter jet with definite positive outcome if flown by an experienced PAF pilot.

If that's how things worked that their wouldn't be any F22 or F35 or even f-15. US would still be using the f-16 to face every single fighter just by upgrading it. But that's not how it works. The Chinese wouldn't had to waste so much money and resources to make j20s while the could've easily upgraded j10s to face every single ariel threat from the US or india. Im not saying that the jeff cant score a kill against rafale, it certainly can but rafale is a great jet with probably one of the best EW suit which would matter alot and not to forget the aesa. Im not gonna go in detail about payload and other shit but the little engine and the little aircraft generating less power thus using small aesa all these will effect its performances against a top notch jet as you're trying to push a lightweight jet to complete a task made for a bigger, more agile medium weight jet. There's a reason why jeff is replacing F7s, jeff can carry more payload tha a mirrage but its not replacing them because its not for that role. It doesn't mean that jeff can deliver bombs it can we all saw on 27th jeff dropping REKs but it will probably never replace mirrage because it doesn't fit the role.

 

[HRK]

Why we should need a new 4+ gen heavyweight or mediumweight fighger aircraft?

for strike role, for air to air missions as of now PAF with ~200 4th generation BVR capable fighter aircraft are presenting a very competitive counter force to ~400 IAF 4th gen BVR capable fleet.

On the other hand in the presence of 36 Rafale jets and 48 or 49 upgraded Mirage-5 [one or two Mirage-5 of IAF have crashed as far as I remember] gives IAF a very potent strike force IF used properly, additionally in future IAF may seek at least one more batch of 36 Rafale jets so if this happen then IAF will have ~120 jets with decent strike capability.

 

[peagle]

for strike role, for air to air missions as of now PAF with ~200 4th generation BVR capable fighter aircraft are presenting a very competitive counter force to ~400 IAF 4th gen BVR capable fleet.

On the other hand in the presence of 36 Rafale jets and 48 or 49 upgraded Mirage-5 [one or two Mirage-5 of IAF have crashed as far as I remember] gives IAF a very potent strike force IF used properly, additionally in future IAF may seek at least one more batch of 36 Rafale jets so if this happen then IAF will have ~120 jets with decent strike capability.

I've observed you are always willing to invite answers, rather then jump in with opinions, very refreshing, so allow me to ask you.

1. Do you think, taking cost into account, would (1.5 or 2 to 1) block 3s vs Rafael pay off for the PAF, basically leverage numbers vs the Rafael, rather then bring new type into service, or
2. The only logical answer to the Rafael is the J10CE or whichever version, irrespective of per unit and associated costs.