JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Bratva]

There is a chance that the previous blocks would eventually be upgraded in-house with the upgrade systems, of Chinese or non-Chinese origin, customised for the existing airframes. This may be a locally developed upgrade.

Exatcly, Now it make sense why PAC is developing an AESA in house. We can't purchase AESA and RD-93 MA for for 100+ JF-17 to upgrade them to block-3 standard. Not to mention replacement of spanish EW in Block-1 and 2 with something that can be integrated with Chinese AESA.

Economy of scale dictates PAF/PAC makes a functioning AESA radar which is 40-50% as good as the chinese one in Block-3 or in J-10 C and install it on 100+ JF-17 along with EW systems that can be integrated with it and keeping RD-93 intact in the 100+ JF-17 due to cost factor

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... the jf17 block 3 is not even needed at the moment ...

Our F16 Blocks 52s are enough to deal with Rafale and upgraded F16s backed by 130+ Jf17 ...

Never underestimate the enemy and always remain prepared and ready for any eventuality (especially when the enemy can decide to bring in nuclear weapons to the table as a way out).

Do you think Pakistan used 100 JF-17 Thunders on 27th February or India used 230 SU-30 MKIs on that day?

Pakistan needs Block-3s asap to counter the Rafale threat.

If the enemy knows you will and can take them on, they will think and think ten times before attempting another misadventure.

JF-17 Thunder Block-3 will maintain the aerial balance in Bar-e-Saghir.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

I have one logical question based on my limited knowledge. As speculated that block -3 has used extensive composite materials? Then the question arises in upgrading all the block -2s to block 3 is that if they change the airframe only then it will be possible for a complete upgrade of all the block 2s into block 3? and what about pl-15? will they be able to integrate with block 2 in its current airframe?

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

I have one logical question based on my limited knowledge. As speculated that block -3 has used extensive composite materials? Then the questions arise in upgrading all the block -2 to block 3 is that only if they change the airframe only then it will be possible for a complete upgrade of all the block 2 into block 3? and what about pl-15? can they be integrated with block 2 in its current airframe?

And also is it possible to integrate the HMD and PL10E with block 2 and block 1 JF 17s?

 

[The Eagle]

By the way, before the argument of our own & in-house AESA Radar solution with the help of friends indeed; it will be really amazing for many if we have our own language/EW Suit especially setting a baseline for future by starting with Block-III.

For the AESA part, I will let the adversary to keep thinking about that. About the parameters of weapons, let the enemy keep guessing unless has the taste of it and same goes for everything not told in the public about Block-III. Conclusively, I will repeat the words of Wiseman that "When Block-III flies, professionals with knowledge/skills from around the world/air force(s) will envy the bird for its capability given its size & cost".

 

[m52k85]

Yes Integrated AESA/EW suite for Block-3 only, however, these two components can exist as separate components for Block-1 and 2 and will do exactly the same function. And seriously, why a Chinese AESA radar can't be integrated aka able to talk with a Spanish EW?? Are you an engineer? If NOT then you won't understand basic integration principles and standards.

Thanks Sir you post good info, but Im afraid I will have to side with @Bratva on this one.
I think you are looking at EW as one word without understanding there may be 'generations' with it. With some background on the kind of problems Su-30mki faces in this respect and some reading up on how EW warfare has evolved (e.g. theres a nice bit of open source info on 'adaptive' vs 'cognitive' EW, someone posted it at some point), I think you will also start appreciating the points Bratva is making.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Economy of scale dictates PAF/PAC makes a functioning AESA radar which is 40-50% as good as the chinese one in Block-3 or in J-10 C and install it on 100+ JF-17 along with EW systems that can be integrated with it and keeping RD-93 intact in the 100+ JF-17 due to cost factor

No No No.. Anything that goes into a fighter jet for PAF has to be the absolute best it can lay its hands on at that point in time. Having something that is 50% capable invites danger, and risks the live of PAF pilots and the country as a hole.

You only have to look at how the IAF backed off after losing an Su30MKI and a Mig21 to PAF in a single engagement, to understand the politics of such events, the effect it can have on morale of the fighting force, and country overall. Had PAF had radars and AAM's that were "50%" as capable during that encounter, then we would have seen a lot more clashes between PAF and IAF, and more strikes on each others terrorities.

Detterence comes from equivalence of power, which in PAF's case has to be technological supremacy given the quantitave difference in the size of the air arms between the two nations.

The motto of the PAF is second to none, and that applies to all aspects of the chain from pilots, planes, technology and people.

Second to none.

 

[Silicon0000]

My Guess:

1- JF17 Block-3 Development, Testing and Production will go parallel.

2- You won't see Block-3 flying for sometime like a year and or half and then a good number comes within short period of few months.

_________________________________________________

On a side note, those who think Block-1 & 2 would be upgraded to Block-3 level by changing almost everything like composite in airframe, improved engine, new radar, new EW suit ......etc can simply tell why not making new one instead of upgrading .......

 

[Bratva]

No No No.. Anything that goes into a fighter jet for PAF has to be the absolute best it can lay its hands on at that point in time. Having something that is 50% capable invites danger, and risks the live of PAF pilots and the country as a hole.

You only have to look at how the IAF backed off after losing an Su30MKI and a Mig21 to PAF in a single engagement, to understand the politics of such events, the effect it can have on morale of the fighting force, and country overall. Had PAF had radars and AAM's that were "50%" as capable during that encounter, then we would have seen a lot more clashes between PAF and IAF, and more strikes on each others terrorities.

Detterence comes from equivalence of power, which in PAF's case has to be technological supremacy given the quantitave difference in the size of the air arms between the two nations.

The motto of the PAF is second to none, and that applies to all aspects of the chain from pilots, planes, technology and people.

Second to none.

If wishes were horses, PAF would have been riding Burraq in to the battle and Me and you would have been riding F-22.

Point being We and me all echo the sentiment that you've described in your post. But we have to be realistic. You've seen the piston engine UAV PAF produced? So yeah we have to taper down our expectations. We are not Turkish who aim for excellence and High tech from the get go. Pakistanis start with the make do product and refine it over the years or in 10-15 year timeframe. Take an example of Babur cruise missile from 2005-2020 And JF-17 development from 2007 - 2020

If we pour as much resources as Turkish do, We will get what you have said in your post which is hardly gonna happen, no?

Until then PAF will continue to field limited amount of Imported Hi Tech hardware from China USA and Europe to maintain the Technology parity with India and maintain the quality aspece , while domestic efforts would be geared towards quantity aspect to keep up with the number game

 

[FuturePAF]

I have one logical question based on my limited knowledge. As speculated that block -3 has used extensive composite materials? Then the question arises in upgrading all the block -2s to block 3 is that if they change the airframe only then it will be possible for a complete upgrade of all the block 2s into block 3? and what about pl-15? will they be able to integrate with block 2 in its current airframe?

Perhaps for the Block I and II will be upgraded to what would be called the “Block II+“ standard; some of the features of the Block III, and other features in a limited form; such as a more modest Radar. At a certain point it becomes cheaper to build new Block III then to upgrade older air frames all the way up to the Block III standard

 

[PakAlp]

Never underestimate the enemy and always remain prepared and ready for any eventuality (especially when the enemy can decide to bring in nuclear weapons to the table as a way out).

Do you think Pakistan used 100 JF-17 Thunders on 27th February or India used 230 SU-30 MKIs on that day?

Pakistan needs Block-3s asap to counter the Rafale threat.

If the enemy knows you will and can take them on, they will think and think ten times before attempting another misadventure.

JF-17 Thunder Block-3 will maintain the aerial balance in Bar-e-Saghir.

PAF is not underestimating India, this is why we have 200+ 4th generation fighter jets waiting to defend our skies. If India brings in nuclear weapons, then Pakistan also has the nukes.

Pakistan on February 27th didn't even use their most advanced f16 block 52s, so i believe they are enough to deal with the 36 Rafale, just like they dealt with the su30mki threat. Let PAF take another year and make Jf17 Block 3 a beast , maybe this is why PAF delayed it slightly, to get upgraded engine, test the AESA for a few years before getting it, test pl15 etc.

 

[aziqbal]

Rafale has only just been delivered its far from being combat operational

and they are too few in numbers, this recent fast track purchase was a symbolic purchase to save some face

Su30 MKI will be the main frontline fighter for India going forward

Now Block III is actually a few years late, and personally I would have liked it to have been operationally delivered and CSS developed the tactics by now

however its now under build and things are progressing, if some units are delivered it will again be a few years before its combat ready, but since PAF has much experience in JF17 we should master the Block III very quickly

after 27th Feb India is so afraid I very much doubt they will field the Rafale in combat only from a distance, again symbolic role only

image a Block III shot down a Rafale? what will India buy F22 Raptors? it would be a national disaster and huge PR failure for Dassault and France would be kicking murder

ASEA coming from China or in-house who really cases, its on Block III that what counts

we cannot really ask for much more, 14 x JF17B have been delivered, export orders are being fulfilled, a new UAV is in PAC + Turkish MUshshaks are there

huge news last dew days lets celebrate that for now

 

[SQ8]

Rafale has only just been delivered its far from being combat operational

and they are too few in numbers, this recent fast track purchase was a symbolic purchase to save some face

Su30 MKI will be the main frontline fighter for India going forward

Now Block III is actually a few years late, and personally I would have liked it to have been operationally delivered and CSS developed the tactics by now

however its now under build and things are progressing, if some units are delivered it will again be a few years before its combat ready, but since PAF has much experience in JF17 we should master the Block III very quickly

after 27th Feb India is so afraid I very much doubt they will field the Rafale in combat only from a distance, again symbolic role only

image a Block III shot down a Rafale? what will India buy F22 Raptors? it would be a national disaster and huge PR failure for Dassault and France would be kicking murder

ASEA coming from China or in-house who really cases, its on Block III that what counts

we cannot really ask for much more, 14 x JF17B have been delivered, export orders are being fulfilled, a new UAV is in PAC + Turkish MUshshaks are there

huge news last dew days lets celebrate that for now

I think they will use it pretty soon and likely to some good affect. They are getting first class training from the French so it all depends on them putting the right pilots through it. Say what you will about Abhinandan, he did show aggression and a will to fight unlike the MKi and M2k pilots who chickened out.

If the right IAF pilots are trained on the Rafale, they can pull off a successful attack pretty quickly possibly scoring a kill or two due to numerical superiority while attacking. They can then keep the Rafale back and harp on it while using the MKis with upgraded radios and M2ks to fight a morale boosted defense against any attempt by us to retaliate.

So really, the factor isn’t just the block-III but the quality of pilots the IAF fields on it.

 

[m52k85]

If the right IAF pilots are trained on the Rafale, they can pull off a successful attack pretty quickly possibly scoring a kill or two due to numerical superiority while attacking.

The attacking force will always have numerical superiority in these type of strikes, so I guess the smart thing to do would be to not intercept a strike and then go full force yourself. This is assuming the initial strike by IAF is a PR one on an insignificant target.

 

[SQ8]

The attacking force will always have numerical superiority in these type of strikes, so I guess the smart thing to do would be to not intercept a strike and then go full force yourself. This is assuming the initial strike by IAF is a PR one on an insignificant target.

I don’t think the interception can be avoided - if anything the defense may have the attacking force either abandon mission or trade range for accuracy.
The distance between most “targets” from the border means that the Hammer is a very suitable weapon to attack these targets while staying over own airspace.

They may cross in as before just to prove a point and that is where engagements would occur. Either way, it all depends whether we get a well planned strike like ours was or one with nervous pilots like theirs was.